25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 10:52 am
@firefly,
Thinking further on the subject of men preying on drunken women lord I am unhappy with the need to used state/legal resources to protect such a drunken fools in the same manner as cases of using public resources to save untrained fools who decide to climb a mountain and end up needing rescuing.

In both cases you need to do so but it is annoying that hundreds of thousands of dollars and limited manpower is needed to protected fools from situations they willingly placed themselves into in the first place.

Seem the best way of dealing with those evil hidden rapist is to drill into women how damn unwise it is to get drunk in any situation but ones known to be totally safe before hand not tune the legal system to go after the rapists after the fact.

Not only would this drilling into offer protection from rapists but it might keep them from perhaps driving and killing others or taking a dive into an empty swimming pool or passing out in winter out of door and freezing to death and on and on and on we go.

Oh well it seem that we do have a duty to turn the earth into a safe place for drunks with special note of drunken women.

As I had said before I would indeed, being on a jury, vote to find such a “hidden rapist” guilty just as I would support paying for rescue teams saving fools on the sides of mountains.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 11:29 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Oh well it seem that we do have a duty to turn the earth into a safe place for drunks with special note of drunken women.

As I had said before I would indeed, being on a jury, vote to find such a “hidden rapist” guilty just as I would support paying for rescue teams saving fools on the sides of mountains
I suspect that we dont agree here...I would agree that having sex on a passed out drunk woman is rape, but if a woman gets drunk and either says yes or says nothing when a guy presses for sex where she is sure that if she were not drunk she would have said no in either words or actions then she has not been raped. I neither agree with the state taking away the right of the drunk to consent to sex nor with the demand for active positive consent from an non impaired person for the law to recognize consent. As far as I am concerned a woman when she gets drunk not only consents to the putting of alcohol in her system but she consents to how her judgements and actions will change afterwords. If she does not like how she has sex with losers who are not nice to her after she gets drunk then she should not get drunk, if she does it anyways and has sex that she would not have sober and feels violated that is her problem, not the collectives. She has the power to fix this problem, there was never any overriding need that justifies the state removing from all drunk individuals our sexual freedom.

As David say the government has no authority to try to protect the citizen from his/her own self....though I give some rights to the government to try I for damn sure dont think that the government has the authority to remove our rights and freedoms in the attempt to protect drunk women from their sexual behaviour while drunk.

Bill, when you say that we can not make the world safe for drunks you are correct, and we also should not try when the price get up into the taking away the freedom of the citizens range. The rape feminist whack jobs have no interest in the greater good, as all they care about is their radical agenda. The rest of us however need to start running cost/benefit analysis when these people come calling with proposed law changes to protect women (AKA VICTIMS...as according to them all women are victimized by men).
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 11:55 am
@BillRM,
I am still waiting for you to back up this statement you claim I made.
Quote:
You wish the law push in a manner to find and detect "hidden rapists" by your own word
.

I had no trouble finding my post relating to Dr. Lisak's study of hidden rapists--without using Google. Nowhere in that post, or any other post, did I express any desire for the law "to find and detect 'hidden rapists'".

So, again I challenge you to back up that statement about me, with a direct quote from one of my posts, or stand exposed for all of A2K as an out and out liar.

You are such a blatant liar, I am not surprised that you are obsessed with the idea of women lying about being raped--you must assume that everyone is a liar, just like you.

Fortunately, most people are not like you. Most people are decent and honorable and have some respect for others. Most women do not lie about being raped, and most men do not engage in sexual activity without consent.

I am waiting for you to find that quote from me...




BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 12:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I suspect that we dont agree here...I would agree that having sex on a passed out drunk woman is rape, but if a woman gets drunk and either says yes or says nothing when a guy presses for sex where she is sure that if she were not drunk she would have said no in either words or actions then she has not been raped. I neither agree with the state taking away the right of the drunk to consent to sex nor with the demand for active positive consent from an non impaired person for the law to recognize consent.


Hawkeye I do not think we disagree at all as my standard for consent not being valid due to the willing consummation of alcohol is blind drunk no question about it. Completely out of it and near to a state of unconsciousness or at least unawareness of her surroundings.

A woman who willingly get a buzz on to the degree that it effect her moods and her willingness to consider someone as a sexual partner or not is her lookout not the poor male.

I had posted time after time that if a woman find that she is unhappy with who she tend to pick as sexual partners under the influence of drugs or alcohol the solution is to reduce her voluntary intake of either in the future.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 12:19 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
had no trouble finding my post relating to Dr. Lisak's study of hidden rapists--without using Google. Nowhere in that post, or any other post, did I express any desire for the law "to find and detect 'hidden rapists'".


So you do not wish the law tune to be able to find and punish these evil hidden rapists that the good doctor is claiming is getting away with these evil deeds?

You are both at the same time accepting the good doctor conclusions and not wishing to do anything about it? Hell if you do not accept his conclusions as valid why post his study?

Blowing smoke up our rear ends once more Firefly?

Anything to take attention away from such statements lately of your that rape at least reported rapes had indeed been going down for the last few decades contradicting your support for such silly claims earlier on this thread of a rape crises where one in four women are rape in college for example.

You know you are going to burn out your smoke machine if you keep running it so hard.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 12:30 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I had no trouble finding my post relating to Dr. Lisak's study of hidden rapists--without using Google. Nowhere in that post, or any other post, did I express any desire for the law "to find and detect 'hidden rapists'

Quote:
The subject of "undetected rapists"--those rapists who have never been prosecuted for their crimes--is extremely interesting. These undetected rapists constitute the vast majority of rapists since most rapes are never prosecuted.

One person who has focused his research on this group is Dr. David Lisak, and information about this group was obtained largely through self reports from the rapists themselves. These undetected rapists differ considerably from incarcerated rapists who are more likely to have raped strangers and used weapons.

Reading about the attitudes, emotions, motivations, and hypermasculinity of these undetected rapists I was struck by the similarity to things said by some of the men posting in this thread, particularly Hawkeye. Hawkeye's attitudes about the roles of males and females, his "rape myths", and his views about "sexual conquests" sound very much like the characteristics of these undetected rapists. And it would be one reason that Hawkeye wants rape laws abolished and why he does not view most rapes as being a crime--he sees his attitudes and motivations and sexual aggressiveness as being the norm for men, although that is not the case--as many men at A2K have told him.

The section on sexually violent subculture also helps to explain why fraternities and college atheletic teams may contain so many undetected rapists.

I found this to be an interesting look at the types of men who commit most of the rapes--and that would include date and acquaintance rapes--they just never get prosecuted for their crimes.

The Undetected Rapist
David Lisak, Ph.D.
University of Massachusetts Boston
March 2002

.
.
.

http://able2know.org/topic/158723-295

Firefly clearly connected Lisak's theory of the Undetecticed Rapist with her desire to use roll more men into the criminal justice system for "their crimes"....are we to now believe that there is a way to prosecute more men by some means other than the law? Again we find Firefly pulling a Bill Clinton act.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 12:30 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

So, again I challenge you to back up that statement about me, with a direct quote from one of my posts, or stand exposed for all of A2K as an out and out liar.


He proved what type of person he was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 12:35 pm
@Arella Mae,
Hello Am trying to run your little tiny smoke machine along with Firefly?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 12:41 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Again we find Firefly pulling a Bill Clinton act.


Well he did try redefining what sex is or is not compare to the normal and common understanding of the term as Firefly is trying with rape but overall he is a far better person then Firefly is on his worst day.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 12:45 pm
Right BillRM, those female college students aren't being sexually assaulted. Those are just "silly" statistics that reputable government agencies put out to fool the public.Rolling Eyes

This college student was one of those statistics, and her rapist--who, of course claimed it "was consensual"--has just been sentenced.
Quote:

Judge gives 'Dangerous' Rapist 8-30 years in Prison
December 5, 2010

NORRISTOWN — Saying danger lurks deep within a man who followed a woman home from a Lower Providence Walmart and attempted to rape her, a judge sentenced the man to a lengthy state prison sentence.

"This positively chilling and horrific crime was committed by a man that sees the world differently, and that is scary. It's nothing less than chilling what took place here," Montgomery County Judge Steven T. O'Neill said Friday as he sentenced Seth Thomas Griffith to 8½-to-30-years in a state correctional facility in connection with the July 2009 attempted rape of a 19-year-old college student inside her Lower Providence home.

"The behavior you engaged in against (the victim) is nothing less than predatory. Your danger lurks far deeper because you can blend in and appear normal," O'Neill added. "This was committed with stalking and tracking the victim. I do consider you to be a danger to society, especially to vulnerable women."

During a May trial, a jury convicted Griffith, 34, of Haws Avenue, Norristown, of charges of attempted rape, attempted sexual assault, indecent assault, unlawful restraint, burglary and possessing an instrument of crime, specifically, the belt he used to restrain the woman during the assault.

Griffith claimed at trial, and told probation officials prior to sentencing, that the petite woman smiled at him and at one point pulled at the crotch of her shorts, which he took as an invitation to a sexual encounter.

"It's scary that that's your view of the world. It's a sexual game, it's a fantasy," O'Neill told a stone-faced, unfazed Griffith. "I clearly believe all indications show you have an anti-social personality disorder. That's a dangerous person."

"The trial that played out in this courtroom was something that will remain with me forever because it was so chilling," added O'Neill.

Griffith testified at trial that he went to Walmart on July 27, 2009, to exchange some bulbs for his car, and he walked in behind the young woman he found attractive.

While the 19-year-old Audubon woman browsed through the store waiting for a prescription to be filled, Griffith followed her from department to department, according to court testimony.

Assistant District Attorney Samantha Cauffman, who argued for a lengthy state sentence against Griffith, said it's ridiculous to suggest that a woman adjusting her clothing in public is inviting a sexual tryst.

"That's what makes him so scary. I think he's always going to be dangerous because of his warped sense of reality," Cauffman said.

"He picked a woman at random in a public place, stalked her through the store, followed her home, broke into her house, grabbed a belt to restrain her and then tried to rape her. He's every woman's worst nightmare because he's so unsuspecting and it's such a random crime it could happen to anyone," said Cauffman, adding the trauma of the attack will haunt the woman for the rest of her life.

Defense lawyer John Kravitz argued for leniency on behalf of Griffith, pointing out Griffith had no prior criminal record and many supportive friends and relatives who where shocked by his behavior.

"He denies culpability," said Kravitz, who argued at trial that when Griffith went to the house to have sex with the woman, he had no intention of raping her. Kravitz implied the attempted sexual encounter was consensual.

Testimony revealed that after the woman left the store and got in her car, Griffith was waiting in the parking lot and followed her to her house on Harrier Drive. Griffith entered the house through a garage, leaving his sandals at the door and walked into the house. After picking up a belt from the laundry, he went upstairs, authorities said. The woman testified Griffith appeared at her bedroom door, spoke to her briefly, then pushed her onto her bed and tried to force her to have sex.

The woman screamed and scratched her attacker, and eventually talked him out of the rape, according to testimony.

At one point, Griffith put a belt around the woman's neck to restrain her. Eventually, she convinced him to leave the house and escorted him out, testimony revealed.

Griffith fled the area after the assault and was apprehended about two weeks later in Nevada.

"You knew exactly what you did," O'Neill scolded Griffith. "This crime was more serious and onerous than usual. I have a dangerous individual who committed a serious crime with no remorse."
http://pottsmerc.com/articles/2010/12/05/news/srv0000010185579.txt?viewmode=2
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 12:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
with her desire to use roll more men into the criminal justice system for "their crimes"....are we to now believe


One can only wonder Hawkeye what percent of the total male population is Firefly looking to roll into the justice system?

Off had if offering and buying drinks in a single bar to women in the hope of getting lucky or even getting lucky is a criminal act then we are likely looking at over half the total male population.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 12:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Firefly clearly connected Lisak's theory of the Undetecticed Rapist with her desire to use roll more men into the criminal justice system for "their crimes"....

No, that post of mine that you've quoted says nothing of the kind.

You've just proved you are a blatant liar.

Dr. Lisak's work is not "theory"--these men admitted to their actions and behaviors--he simply studied their characteristics. His definition of "hidden rapist" simply means these men have never been prosecuted for their crimes--their crimes being rapes, which they themselves described in self reports.

Where did I say I wanted these men prosecuted?

You are not only a liar, you can't even understand what you read.

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 12:59 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Off had if offering and buying drinks in a single bar to women in the hope of getting lucky or even getting lucky is a criminal act then we are likely looking at over half the total male population
look at the Richmond School rape case where by all accounts a bunch of guys were out drinking, and a girl dithed her friends and walked over to them...they offer her a drink from their bottle which she accepts, and she keeps drinking...these facts are not in dispute. Firefly has it that these men "plied her with alcohol"...according to her it is all the fault of men that this girl started drinking with them. I am betting that if the facts were ever to come out that this girl knew that they guys were out drinking and left the building with the intent to find them and drink with them. But we will never know, because the law does not care what this girl was intending when she decided to get drunk with a fairly large group of older men in a secluded spot.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 01:01 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
His definition of "hidden rapist" simply means these men have never been prosecuted for their crimes--their crimes being rapes, which they themselves described in self reports
nicely sidestepping the part of law that says the even lowly men are innocent until proven guilty....

Also, as you well know but are to dishonest to admit, just as a very large number of women whom the rape feminists call rape victims do not believe that they are the victims of rape a very large number of men that these people call rapists do not believe that they are rapists. I would give this guy's theory a little more credibility if he was speaking self described rapists whom have never been caught, but I seriously doubt this is what he is talking about.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 01:07 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Right BillRM, those female college students aren't being sexually assaulted. Those are just "silly" statistics that reputable government agencies put out to fool the public. .


Not one in four college women being rape in four years or anywhere near such a silly number and nonsense put out by anyone is still nonsense my friend.

Reported rapes in Yale for example run around ten a year and if the one in four number in four years would be correct the number of rapes would need to be 350 or so a year!! That mean that 340 out of 350 rapes would be going unreported every year.

In any case, we had look at these studies many times here and found that the vast majority of the woman label as poor victims do not agree with the surveyors that they are rape victims and somewhere in the range of 40 percents have ongoing and willing social and sexual relationships with the men that the studies had label as their rapists!

Nonsense is once more nonsense no matter who put it out but it is indeed an interesting question why a part of the government is backing such nonsense still that is beyond the scope of even this thread.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 01:07 pm
@firefly,
They cannot combat your facts with truth. That is why they take to calling you a lesbian, feminist, etc. It's like being in third grade.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 01:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
nicely sidestepping the part of law that says the even lowly men are innocent until proven guilty....

Or until they confess...

I also never said the Richmond H.S. girl was "plied with alcohol". She apparently started drinking of her own accord. Her drinking is also irrelevant as to whether she was gang raped.

You just can't stop lying, can you?

Quote:
I would give this guy's theory a little more credibility if he was speaking self described rapists whom have never been caught, but I seriously doubt this is what he is talking about.

That is who Lisak is talking about--they are self described rapists who have never been caught! You really are dumb. You can't even understand what you read. No wonder you are so ignorant and uninformed.



hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 01:26 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I also never said the Richmond H.S. girl was "plied with alcohol
this is possible, as I cant find the post at the moment...will attempt to look when I have more time

I am well aware with the fallibility of memory, and I am currently on the road so my time is limited.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 01:29 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
They cannot combat your facts with truth. That is why they take to calling you a lesbian, feminist, etc. It's like being in third grade.

That's been true throughout this entire thread.

It's unfortunate that these three self annointed men's rights "spokespeople" are such poor advocates for their cause. Their issues get lost in the haze of their distortions, lies, and women bashing. That really is a shame, because those issues, while not belonging in this thread, do warrent intelligent discussion--but not by those three losers.They've even turned off most of the other men who've posted in this thread.

hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 01:33 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
They've even turned off most of the other men who've posted in this thread.

not only facts not in evidence, but also I dont see a lot of people jumping in on your side of the debate....maybe your position is not a rock solid as you think it is, or you claim that it is...
0 Replies
 
 

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