Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@firefly,

That is quite a twist of logic to claim that a person who is no longer legally responsible for their sexual choices and actions can consent to sex. They can say what ever they want to say, they can take their clothes off and spread their legs with no assistance, and still walk into a clinic a few hours later and claim rape.....and be believed....and get the guy arrested. What ever it is you mean by consent(which you refuse to tell us) is far removed from the original definition.

I am not comforted by how the law is currenty applied, in part because I know that the rape feminists are constantly agitating for more harsh treatment of men, I care about what the law allows. Sex law as written is a violation of the citizens whom have been born men, I will not rest until sex law embraces equality and fairness.

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@hawkeye10,

Hawkeye have you taken notice that of all the hundreds of rape stories that firefly had posted here would had been rapes under the old meanings of the term and yet her main position is that we need to greatly stretch the meaning of rape to cover the “undetected rapes” and rapists.

Strange is it not that she can not or at least had not as yet posted any stories of sexual assaults that would not be fully cover by the old rape/sexual assault laws?

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

equality and fairness.

I cant see where you are going with that. This is the libby lobby, they are psychopathically against men. Next thing you will be introducing facts on the number of men raped, the number of men wrongfully imprisoned, the damage done to ACCUSED innocent men.....none of this is relevant to an emotional woman demanding more protection. None of this is relevant to men driven by instinctive desire to protect.

I mean, c'mon....logic and reason to promote equality and fairness ????? Very Happy

What the hell were you thinking ???? Very Happy

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Quote:

logic and reason to promote equality and fairness ????? What the hell were you thinking

I was thinking that when confronted with feminine aggression (which will normally be of an emotional blackmail bent) that men do have other options besides rolling over.....and yes, I am very aware that many modern men have never become aware that they have choices and that their voice should be heard and that they have a right to demand that their voices be heard.
Many men are so racked with guilt about being men, having spent their lives being "educated" on what bastards men are, that they cant stand up to women. **** that. They need to learn to do better.

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@hawkeye10,

Women will spank boys more often and harder for crying then they will girls. It seems if men feel sorry for themselves they wont throw away their lives to protect women. Women are allowed to feel sorry for themselves, it will encourage protection but men have to tough it out or they wont protect women.

Then when women marry they complain men arent in contact with their feelings. They want a tame male that they can push around, but if there is trouble they want a tiger. When they are ovulating they want to mate with a macho type but normally they want someone less threatening. Get fertilised by the macho and get the other to raise it. It would be bloody hilarious if it wasnt true.

Why shouldnt women be charged with fraud if they get their husband to raise someone elses child ? Are we to believe they were just walking down the street and they accidentally got pregnant and they didnt know and anyway they forgot to be honest so it is not their fault ? Surely that is a man being raped. Or perhaps they only get pregnant when they are drunk because they would let them off the hook as it would be date rape and they are allowed to forget if they agreed or not.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Hate to tell you this but under the laws a woman is an adult not a child that anyone else owe a duty of protection to.

That sort of attitude is why a group of men watched a helpless 16 year old being gang raped, beaten, and urinated on, on the grounds of her high school, without trying to intervene or call for help. We don't "owe a duty of protection" to help others do we, BillRW? Just stand by and watch.

And complain when news stories like that are brought to your attention because you don't want to know about "rape horror stories"--they are too real for you, they remind people that rapes occur. You don't want to know that such things happen.

Just ignore it when women are sexually attacked and raped--not just that particular 16 year old, but all women who are sexually assaulted and raped every day. Just stand by and watch it go on--because you don't own any female "a duty of protection", do you?. And then, by all means, defend the men who do the raping by offering up excuses for them--she was drunk, she really wanted it, she consented but then changed her mind, she's lying, she's just out for revenge on an innocent man, she asked for it, she's a whore...

It is because of attitudes like yours that the state "owes a duty of protection" to the hundreds of thousands of victims who are sexually assaulted and raped every year.
In 2007, there were 248,300 victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault. (These figures do not include victims 12 years old or younger.)
Source--U.S. Department of Justice. 2007 National Crime Victimization Survey. 2007.

In 2003, 9 of every 10 rape victims were female.
Source--2.U.S. Department of Justice. 2003 National Crime Victimization Survey. 2003.

And that is why we need those sexual assault and rape laws. All citizens not only deserve, but demand, that the state protect them from crime, including the crime of rape--the crime of having their bodies unlawfully assaulted and violated by others.

You wouldn't let someone take your car keys and drive off without your consent, and I suspect you support the laws that criminalize someone just taking off with your car without your consent. But you think it is "silly" for rape laws to require you to have consent before you engage in sexual intercourse with a female--before you enter her body. You apparently think it is more important for you to be able to protect your car than it is for a woman to be able to protect her body.

That's a fine set of values you have, BillRM.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

What ever it is you mean by consent(which you refuse to tell us) is far removed from the original definition.

Stop playing games about the definition of "consent". Each state defines the meaning of "consent" in its sexual assault laws--and, therefore, that is the only valid and relevant definition to use when discussing those laws and violations of those laws. In your state, it is, "freely willing agreement".

I have no idea what you mean by the "original definition" of consent? Has "consent" ever meant anything other than "agreement" or "permission"?

Quote:

Sex law as written is a violation of the citizens whom have been born men

Really?

It is a violation of men to require that they have the consent of another person before they engage in sexual activity with that person?

So, men should be free to rape at will?

Another man should be free to rape you? Or your wife?

You have tried to obfuscate and distort the discussion of this topic by bringing in issues that do not relate to the purpose and nature of the sexual assault laws.

That people lie about whether they were raped has nothing to do with the sexual assault laws--the laws pertain to actual sexual assaults, not to fabrications.

People lie about all sorts of things, for all sorts of reasons. Men claim sexual intercourse was consensual when it was not. They will claim the woman has "buyers remorse" rather than admit she never gave consent.

That some people lie has nothing to do with the fact that a great many more people are actually raped.

That some people lie, is no reason to abolish laws that are needed to deter and punish the actual crimes of rape which occur.

It is nothing new that people use and abuse others in all sorts of ways. Some women will try to misuse the laws to wrongly accuse men. Our law enforcement and criminal justice system, in their efforts to ferret out the truth, are our only safeguards against that. Some men will misuse the laws to rape women, claiming sex was consensual, when it was not. Our law enforcement and criminal justice system, in their efforts to ferret out the truth, are our only safeguards against that.

The sexual assault laws, as written, protect all individuals from unwanted, non consensual sexual intrusions by others. That is their purpose. That is what they define and punish. Nothing more and nothing less.

Protecting people, all people, from sexual assaults, is not a "feminist" issue--it is a human and civil rights issue. Non consensual sex is an assault. You cannot just punch someone in the face, without their consent, without expecting a penalty for doing that. You can't sexually assault them without expecting a penalty either. And non consensual sex is rape. That's all those laws say.

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@firefly,

Quote:

And then, by all means, defend the men who do the raping by offering up excuses for them--she was drunk, she really wanted it, she consented but then changed her mind, she's lying, she's just out for revenge on an innocent man, she asked for it, she's a whore...

The old meaning of the rape laws forever would had declare any such acts rape without question so why not give us some examples instead of how your new and improve rape laws would do anything but lock up men for being men not rapists?

Your wishes seem to be for laws to interfere with the right of both men and women to have consensus sex without fear and to grant the right for any woman after the fact to withdraw consent.

Men should trust women not to do so however you had not made a case of why they should have that power in the first place at least in my opinion.

If would be similar to if I had been drinking and being under the influence grant consent for a girlfriend to drive my car, then afterwards at my whim alone I should be able have her lock up for a few years for the crime of grand theft Auto? Is that what you have been saying Firefly?

Quote:

We don't "owe a duty of protection" to help others do we, BillRW

No one have a duty to act as a rescuer under the law to anyone but for his or her own children or wife or husband or some such connection of duty to that practical person.

In fact, the law is that even the police does not have that duty and cannot be sue if they do not do so!!!!!!!!

Now in some states such as Florida if I saw a woman/child being rape that I do not in fact have a special duty to the law does demand that I call 911 and there is a minor fine for not doing so. That is currently the state of the law in only eight states however. In the other 42 states onlookers have no legal duty to call the police under current law.

Now morally would I personally be likely to get involved in stopping a rape hell yes and even at risk of harm to myself but that would be my personal decision not a demand under the law.

The state of Florida in fact call rape a forcible felony and grant any citizen the right not however the duty to used any force including deadly force to end a rape.

To sum up I can risk my life and more then likely would risk my life by trying to stop a rape in progress but that would be my decision that the state would support but it is not a duty that the law and the state demand. Nor should it be in my opinion.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Sorry I seem to had double post two versions of my reply to Firefly in error as I lost connection to the internet for a moment and was not aware of the first version posting until it was too late to delete it.

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Quote:

The old meaning of the rape laws forever would had declare any such acts rape without question so why not give us some examples instead of how your new and improve rape laws would do anything but lock up men for being men not rapists?

As you are so fond of pointing out, the instance of rape has decreased over the past several decades.

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Sexual assault has fallen by more than 60% in recent years. Had the 1993 rate held steady, 6.8 million Americans would have been assaulted in the last 13 years.
But, thanks to the decline, the actual number of victims was about 4.2 million. In other words, if not for the historic gains we've made in the last decade, an additional 2,546,420 Americans would have become victims of sexual violence.
http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/frequency-of-sexual-assault

Changes in the rape laws have served to reduce sexual assaults. That was their purpose, and they have done that. They are effective in reducing the number of rapes. Since most women are raped by someone known to them, those "newer" laws have been effective in decreasing those crimes as well.

Quote:

If would be similar to if I had been drinking and being under the influence grant consent for a girlfriend to drive my car, then afterwards at my whim alone I should be able have her lock up for a few years for the crime of grand theft Auto? Is that what you have been saying Firefly?

You are simply saying that some people can lie and try to misuse all laws. Are you suggesting that we abolish laws relating to theft because people can claim they never gave consent to have their property taken, when in fact, they had given consent? So, if you say I can use your credit card, but, after I use it, you accuse me of theft, and want me arrested, is that a reason to abolish the laws relating to theft of credit cards?

Many different kinds of laws rely on "consent" and not just the sexual assault laws. And some people will lie and make false accusations under those laws too. But many more people are the victims of crime than are the victims of false accusations.

The actions of those who try to misuse the laws are not reason to abolish the laws. We have both criminal and civil remedies to deter and punish deliberate abuse of laws. We have law enforcement and criminal justice systems to ferret out the truth. While rare miscarriages of justice do occur, our jails are not filled with the "innocent". And people are sent to jails and prisons, not on the "whim" of victims, but by the verdicts of juries and judges. That is the way our entire criminal justice system works, and despite whatever flaws it has, it is a very good system.

We need those sexual assault laws. They are working. They have helped to reduce sexual assaults and rapes. And that's the reason to keep those laws.

And we need to keep reminding people of those laws, and what those laws actually say, in order to prevent future crimes of rape and sexual assault.

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@firefly,

Quote:

You are simply saying that some people can lie and try to misuse all laws. Are you suggesting that we abolish laws relating to theft because people can claim they never gave consent to have their property taken, when in fact, they had given consent? So, if you say I can use your credit card, but, after I use it, you accuse me of theft, and want me arrested, is that a reason to abolish the laws relating to theft of credit cards?

No lying would be needed under your dream sexual assault law all a woman would need to state is yes I gave him full consent for sex however I was under the influence of drugs and or alcohol at the time and therefore my consent was not valid.

Once more any woman in effect could at her whim charge any man with rape after the fact had she taken of her own free will before hand drugs or alcohol that might or might not had cloud her judgment.

It would be the same as if I had granted consent to drive my car and for the same reasons as given above could still have the driver lock up for a few years for stealing my car at my whim.

The only reply I seen for this express concern by myself and others from you is that a happy women would not do such to her sexual partner.

Sorry sexual partners are not alway happy with each other and the result of having an unhappy sexual partner should not be 20 years to life for rape at her whim.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

No lying would be needed under your dream sexual assault law

I have never stated any "dream sexual assault law"--nor do I have any.

My only concern in this thread has been with the actual, current sexual assault laws, and my desire to see those enforced.

You seem to have no concern for those who are actually raped, according to those laws, by people who simply disregard those laws.

Quote:

Sorry sexual partners are not alway happy with each other and the result of having an unhappy sexual partner should not be 20 years to life for rape at her whim.

Rape victims are not "unhappy sex partners"--they are the victims of a sexual assault. And no one is incarcerated for 20 years at the "whim" of anyone, let alone the victim of a crime. People are incarcerated on the verdicts of juries and judges. That is our criminal justice system.

I repeat, you seem to have no concern for those who are actually raped, according to the current sexual assault laws, by people who simply disregard those laws.

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@firefly,

Quote:

I have never stated any "dream sexual assault law"--nor do I have any.

My only concern in this thread has been with the actual, current sexual assault laws, and my desire to see those enforced.

You seem to have no concern for those who are actually raped, according to those laws, by people who simply disregard those laws.

Come on be a little bit more honest!

You wish the law push in a manner to find and detect "hidden rapists" by your own word.

Of all your postings of rapes not one would not had been rape under the existing laws for the last hundred years of so except for spousal rape.

No one here not one person in the thousands of postings had taken the position that real rape should not be punish however you are indeed trying your best to get what is rape and how rape redefine by using the consent issue

So why not be honest about your desire?

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@firefly,

Quote:

And no one is incarcerated for 20 years at the "whim" of anyone, let alone the victim of a crime. People are incarcerated on the verdicts of juries and judges. That is our criminal justice system.

Sure you wish to used the is consent given valid issue to do just that grant any woman the right to charge and have any sexual partner convicted of rape at her whim with the only requirement that she had taken drugs or alcohol into her system of her own free will ahead of the consent.

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@BillRM,

There had been even hint in your postings that you also would like any pressure of any kind on a woman to have sex as invaliding of consent.

Such pressures having nothing to do with force or threat of force but with threats even of breaking up with her or withdrawing some manner of support that the male had been granting her up to that point in the relationship.

In a few states now there are even rape by fraud laws that would turn freely given consent into rape if you had lied in any manner to the woman.

To sum up making sexual relationships into a damn minefield for males.

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@firefly,

Quote:

As you are so fond of pointing out, the instance of rape has decreased over the past several decades.

An yet you had been trying to sell us a bill of goods that we have a shocking rape crisis happening with one in four college women being rape during their college careers for example.

You are clearly not a very honest person when it come to this subject and you are doing the same as some religion people do lied in the name of promoting what they view as a good cause.

In the case of the lying of religion people about historic facts, I call that lying for Jesus.

For you I will call it lying for the feminist cause.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

You wish the law push in a manner to find and detect "hidden rapists" by your own word.

Find the post where I said that, or be exposed to all of A2K as an out and out liar.

I posted a study by Dr. David Lisak, of the University of Massachusetts, about the characteristics of "hidden rapists"--men who, by their own admission, have committed rapes, often repeatedly, but who have avoided prosecution and incarceration. It was quite informative in terms of the attitudes and emotions these men hold toward women and the motivations for their actions. And no one questions the fact that many of those who commit rape do avoid prosecution and incarceration--a large percentage of them do--including many young college men. Unfortunately, it is not hard to find such men--or to study their characteristics. Dr. Lisak, who specializes in the study of the causes and consequences of interpersonal violence, has found thousands of them.

Quote:

Of all your postings of rapes not one would not had been rape under the existing laws for the last hundred years of so except for spousal rape.

Your ignorance is abysmal. Rape is non consensual sex--it has always been non consensual sex, sex without the consent of the woman--whether that was the rape of women as part of the "spoils of war", rape by a stranger with a weapon, or rape of a female by her drunken date--if the sex was unwanted by her, the act has been rape. About the only thing that's changed recently, is the legal degree of force necessary to accomplish the rape. Women who are scared stiff, or elderly, or very intoxicated, for instance, don't usually put up much of a fight, so extreme force is often not required--and current sexual assault laws take that reality into account. And "spousal rape" is one of the most recently acknowledged and recognized types of rape--and not, as you erroneously state, one of the oldest.

Quote:

No one here not one person in the thousands of postings had taken the position that real rape should not be punish however you are indeed trying your best to get what is rape and how rape redefine by using the consent issue

I'm not trying to get rape redefined. The current sexual assault laws all include the "consent issue"--it is what differentiates sexual activity from sexual assault.

"Real rape"--is what the currently existing state laws define as "rape". Therefore, by your own above statement, you should want to see all rapes punished.

Why are you pushing for men to be able to have non consensual sex? Why is the "consent issue" so insignificant for you? Should another man be able to have anal sex with you without your consent?

1 Reply

Here is an easy solution to the question of "consent".
Before engaging is sex with another person, each person must get a signed, notarized statement from the other person giving consent for sex.

1 Reply

@firefly,

So if you buy drinks for an adult woman of legal age, and she drinks it willingly, and then she consent to sex you are a rapist?

Unless she is so unwise as to get blind drunk you are no more of a rapist then if you had used compliments or gifts or any others means to get her into a likely mood to consent to sex with you in my opinion.

If a grown woman does not care for the decisions she made concerning sexual partners when under the influence of alcohol or drugs then the simple way of dealing with it is not to drink or do drug to the extensive that your judgment is so reduce.

Seem that a large percent of women in your opinion are out and out alcoholic that are therefore prey to evil men.

Being such an out of control alcoholic placed a woman at far larger risks of bad outcomes in her live then running into a sexual predator that enjoy sex with such women.

Nevertheless, if she had gotten herself unconscious or nearly so or is clearly no longer aware of her surroundings then it would indeed be rape under existing laws for the last hundred years or so to have sex with her as it should be. No change in the law needed.

Being on a jury, I would also find the man guilty even it I happen to also view the woman with contempt as the woman in your picture surrounded with empty bottles on a couch pass out.

Oh with the except of it they happen to be in an ongoing sexual relationship then unless it can be shown that the male was on notice that such a relationship between them was ended or in question at the time I would not find the man guilty of anything other then in having bad taste if partners.

I had been a drinker myself but in my total life I had never never allow myself to get into a state that I am no longer aware of my surrounding and able to take full responsible for my actions and see no excuse for a growth woman to do so.

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@mysteryman,

Quote:

Here is an easy solution to the question of "consent".
Before engaging is sex with another person, each person must get a signed, notarized statement from the other person giving consent for sex.

Will not work as your would also need a full drug/alcohol screening results and do not forget one second after signing such a consent form she could withdraw that consent.

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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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