25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 02:55 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I believe that the cab driver abducted and raped her.
do you have anything to base this belief on other than your vaunted hatred of men?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 03:04 pm
@firefly,
Neither Bill nor Hawkeye even believe the cases of rape that are on VIDEOTAPE. If they wouldn't believe that, they will never believe rape occurs.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 03:16 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Neither Bill nor Hawkeye even believe the cases of rape that are on VIDEOTAPE.
IDK what you are referring to, but I have seen video of the acting out of rape fantasies that wold have convinced me it I had not seen the actress at the front end vocalizing that she was a willing participant. I probably should not admitt as much, because I believe these tapes violate most american obscenity laws. They are currently produced mostly in Eastern Europe or Russia
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 03:55 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
BillRM doesn't know the rape allegations against Julian Assange are false--he has absolutely no proof of that. He's just quick to accuse all women who bring rape charges of being liars.

The fact that evidence was not considered strong enough to lodge the rape charge earlier means nothing. They haven't even had a chance to interrogate Assange yet because he's been in hiding. They have enough indication of possible sexual assault to justify the Interpol warrant for his arrest.


Proof sorry I was always under the impression you need proof to convict not proof to be set free!!!!!!! Oh they did indeed interview him my friend already before he let the country.

Let see over half the nations on the planet desire him stop and we had such people as Shara Palin implying the CIA should kill him it needed be and all at once two women show up claiming rape and when the charges was look into they was founded to be unfounded.

Then a they did a 180 degree change and wish to have him back for questioning on a possible rape warrant and at the same time the US is doing it best to figure out some charges of their own the other nations would honor to get ahold of him.

Sorry only you would under those conditions would give this nonsense any credit at all.

Oh if I was him I would damn well be in hiding to but not over some half ass rape charges




hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 04:04 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Oh if I was him I would damn well be in hiding to but not over some half ass rape charges

I think we know enough enough about how intelligence agencies do their work to doubt these charges...they come right out of the cold war era spook manual. The only change is that in the old day you set up a target with a prostitute or a transsexual, now days you do it with any woman who is willing to claim rape.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 04:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye as I had said if there was any way to do it I would bet instead of a rape charge they would had planted child porn on his computer.

That would be even better and far simpler then a rape charge however if he is not insane any computers he deal with would be protected from such nonsense.

The man is so far very luck not be had been assassinated and a criminal charge of either rape or child porn is likely a mean to pin him down so he can be or at least slow down him freedoms of movements.

Only Firefly given the situation would give a rape charge a moment of credibility.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 04:26 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Hawkeye as I had said if there was any way to do it I would bet instead of a rape charge they would had planted child porn on his computer
he is way too careful and technology savvy for that move....rape is much more simple. Keep in mind they don't need to prove it, all they need to do is smear his reputation and get him off the Internet for a year or so, a bogus rape charge should work fine.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 04:29 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Neither Bill nor Hawkeye even believe the cases of rape that are on VIDEOTAPE. If they wouldn't believe that, they will never believe rape occurs.


I think they're so steeped in pornography and fantasy that everything seems consensual to them--unfortunately that's not real life. Rape happens--far too often. They know it too, they just refuse to admit it.

Do you think they can find a way to blame the victim if she's only 2 years old? Or they'll blame the child's grandmother and aunt for not keeping an eye on her--anyone but the rapist.
Quote:
Union City sex offender accused of raping 2-year-old
Suspect was chased out of Dollar Store on Decoto Road in Union City
By Chris Metinko
Oakland Tribune
12/02/2010

UNION CITY -- A registered sex offender is being held on suspicion of rape after police said he sexually assaulted a 2-year-old girl in a Dollar Tree store on Decoto Road on Wednesday afternoon.

Eugene Ramos, 36, of Union City, was arrested and booked on suspicion of kidnapping, rape, sexual acts with a child and false imprisonment.

The incident began when a man grabbed the girl as she returned a ribbon to a Christmas aisle in the store, momentarily leaving the sight of her grandmother and aunt, who were with her, police said.

The man had the child pinned down in the aisle and was sexually assaulting her when he was spotted by the grandmother, police said. The child's pants and diaper had been removed and she was being straddled by the man, who had pulled his pants and underwear down, according to police.

The man was pulling up his pants as he fled the store while being chased by the girl's grandmother and aunt, according to police.

Several customers chased him through the shopping complex and a solicitor in front of the store eventually tackled the man.

A BART police officer nearby was flagged down as a small group of people held down the man.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_16759989?source=most_emailed&nclick_check=1



BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 04:39 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Do you think they can find a way to blame the victim if she's only 2 years old? Or they'll blame the child's grandmother and aunt for not keeping an eye on her--anyone but the rapist.


Hmm not only is Assange character under attack it would seem<grin>.

Hawkeye did you happen to post anything that would lead anyone to assume that you would blame a 2 year old for her own rape?

If so I happen to had missed it completely.

Or did you post anything that even imply that force sex as in real rape was ok with you let along involving a 2 years old?

If you can not win with arguments and logic just throw in a few personal attacks it would seem along with a few more rape stories.

She does indeed seem to get off on rape stories.

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 04:44 pm
@BillRM,
Note: I see that you deleted your post, but I will comment anyways
Quote:
Somehow I do not think he does not have others who would and are carrying on his program
You should read up on the guy..I doubt that there is any longer a core group that would carry on with-out him, as he has driven most of the group way with the tyrannical way he operates. I doubt that anyone else even has the passwords and codes required to keep operating.

I am wondering if the Swiss experience with Polanski plays into this...as that certainly must caution against grabbing up a big name on a flimsy sex charge. Polanski's charge was originally a good one, but the call put out for him decades later that the Swiss justified holding him on was not.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 04:54 pm
Too bad the rape deniers can't handle the details of actual rapes--and even worse that they see them as sexually titilating rather than repulsive acts.

Let's hope they never wind up on the jury for a rape trial.

Testimony has continued in the pre-trial hearings for the Richmond High gang rape--the one Hawkeye thinks is "consensual rough sex" in which the victim inflicted her own injuries.
Quote:
Richmond gang rape witness' story recounted
Henry K. Lee, Chronicle Staff Writer
Wednesday, December 1, 2010

The alleged gang rape of a 16-year-old girl outside a homecoming dance in Richmond began after one of the suspects ripped her pantyhose off, touched her chest and reached up her dress, a police detective testified Tuesday.

Manuel Ortega, 20, of Richmond encouraged a crowd of young men to attack the girl, said Richmond police Detective Eric Smith, citing an interview he had with a man who was arrested but never charged in the case.

The man, Salvador Rodriguez, said Ortega "grabbed her breast and reached up her dress," Smith testified during a preliminary hearing to determine whether Ortega and six other men will be held for trial on sexual assault charges.

Defense attorneys have suggested during the hearing in Martinez that the girl was not assaulted during the Oct. 24, 2009, incident outside Richmond High School. They have implied in their questioning that she became drunk voluntarily and flirted with the defendants.

Judge Gregory Caskey will decide at the end of the hearing in Contra Costa County Superior Court whether the men must face trial. The girl is not expected to testify.

Another police detective previously testified that one of the defendants, Cody Smith, 16, of San Pablo, had seen the girl outside the dance and invited her to drink brandy with him and his friends. The girl had known Smith since the seventh grade, and he was in her biology class, police said.

Rodriguez said the teenager fondled her, Detective Smith testified Tuesday.

Defendant Jose Montano, 19, of Richmond "was the first person to have sex" with the girl, Ortega told Smith during a jailhouse interview, the detective testified.

Another defendant, Elvis Torrentes, 23, of Richmond "also put his hands up her dress," Rodriguez told police, the detective testified.

Over the course of more than two hours, numerous men sexually assaulted the girl and photographed her with cell phone cameras, police said. During the alleged gang rape, she was urinated on, and someone poured brandy on her genitals, according to testimony.

Detective Smith said Rodriguez had told him that "everyone went for it. People were holding her facedown, kind of by her arms and legs" while she was unconscious.

At one point, Ortega said, "I'm next, I'm next," Rodriguez told police.

The group told Rodriguez to leave after he insisted that they stop, the detective testified.

Rodriguez admitted to police that he had touched the girl on her genitals, Smith testified. But Rodriguez also told police that he had tried to prevent people from taking pictures of her and that he had covered her up with his shirt after she was left naked, unresponsive and moaning while lying on concrete, the detective said.

Six of the defendants could be sentenced to life in prison. Besides Ortega, Montano and Cody Smith, they are Ari Morales, 17, of San Pablo, Marcelles Peter, 18, of Pinole, and John Crane Jr., 43, of Richmond. The minors are being tried as adults.

Torrentes faces charges including aiding the act of rape that could land him in prison for up to 26 years.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/11/30/BAE41GJFS9.DTL&tsp=1
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 05:05 pm
@hawkeye10,
I had the impression that what is common knowledge about this gentleman is very likely to be misinformation to a large degree.

Hell even I who are likely even more security conscious/nuts then our friend Assange had made arrangements to allow needed access to my digit information’s upon my death.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 05:08 pm
@firefly,
You and AM are the only ones here who seem to be getting off on the details of two years old being rape.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 05:08 pm
@firefly,
Quote:

Testimony has continued in the pre-trial hearings for the Richmond High gang rape--the one Hawkeye thinks is "consensual rough sex
As usual you either cant remember my position or you purposefully misrepresent it. I said that it could have started out as consensual rough sex, but that it likely turned into rape at some point.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 05:12 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The alleged gang rape of a 16-year-old girl outside a homecoming dance in Richmond began after one of the suspects ripped her pantyhose off, touched her chest and reached up her dress, a police detective testified Tuesday.

Manuel Ortega, 20, of Richmond encouraged a crowd of young men to attack the girl, said Richmond police Detective Eric Smith, citing an interview he had with a man who was arrested but never charged in the case.

The man, Salvador Rodriguez, said Ortega "grabbed her breast and reached up her dress," Smith testified during a preliminary hearing to determine whether Ortega and six other men will be held for trial on sexual assault charges
I have done all of this countless times, but it was not rape, because my women wanted it rough. The question is was what ever Ortega was encouraging what the girl had indicated that she wanted or not. We don't know.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 06:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Detective Smith said Rodriguez had told him that "everyone went for it. People were holding her facedown, kind of by her arms and legs" while she was unconscious.

She wasn't indicating she wanted anything--she was unconscious--she was being raped.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 06:35 pm
@firefly,
You are dealing with dumb, dumber and dumbest on this thread. You choose the order. I have.

They don't need logic. They have hate.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 06:38 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

You and AM are the only ones here who seem to be getting off on the details of two years old being rape.


You are one sick piece of work with the apparent mind of a psycho.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 06:41 pm
@firefly,
Let them say what they want. I believe it is obvious to anyone with an ounce of humanity or common sense what they are about.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 07:23 pm
The subject of "undetected rapists"--those rapists who have never been prosecuted for their crimes--is extremely interesting. These undetected rapists constitute the vast majority of rapists since most rapes are never prosecuted.

One person who has focused his research on this group is Dr. David Lisak, and information about this group was obtained largely through self reports from the rapists themselves. These undetected rapists differ considerably from incarcerated rapists who are more likely to have raped strangers and used weapons.

Reading about the attitudes, emotions, motivations, and hypermasculinity of these undetected rapists I was struck by the similarity to things said by some of the men posting in this thread, particularly Hawkeye. Hawkeye's attitudes about the roles of males and females, his "rape myths", and his views about "sexual conquests" sound very much like the characteristics of these undetected rapists. And it would be one reason that Hawkeye wants rape laws abolished and why he does not view most rapes as being a crime--he sees his attitudes and motivations and sexual aggressiveness as being the norm for men, although that is not the case--as many men at A2K have told him.

The section on sexually violent subculture also helps to explain why fraternities and college atheletic teams may contain so many undetected rapists.

I found this to be an interesting look at the types of men who commit most of the rapes--and that would include date and acquaintance rapes--they just never get prosecuted for their crimes.

Quote:
The Undetected Rapist
David Lisak, Ph.D.
University of Massachusetts Boston
March 2002

Perpetrators: Characteristics

The vast majority of rapists are never prosecuted for their crimes. The attrition rate between the commission of the crime and the prosecution of it reveals starkly how unpunished is the crime of rape.

Approximately 85% of rape victims do not report their
victimization to criminal justice authorities. Of the 15% who do report, it is estimated that perhaps 10% result in the filing of charges, and perhaps 40% of those cases result in some sort of conviction.

This attrition rate means that studies of incarcerated rapists cannot be generalized to the vast majority of rapists who are never reported or prosecuted. Twenty years of research on this latter group – so-called “undetected rapists,” has revealed a group of sexual predators who have escaped detection by the criminal justice system. These undetected rapists:

• are extremely adept at identifying “likely” victims, and testing prospective victims’ boundaries;

• plan and premeditate their attacks, using sophisticated strategies to groom their victims for attack, and to isolate them physically;

• use “instrumental” not gratuitous violence; they exhibit strong impulse control and use only as much violence as is needed to terrify and coerce their victims into submission;

• use psychological weapons – power, control, manipulation, and threats – backed up by physical force, and almost never resort to weapons such as knives or guns;

• use alcohol deliberately to render victims more vulnerable to attack, or
completely unconscious.

In addition, the majority of undetected rapists are serial rapists who also commit other forms of serious interpersonal violence. In a study of 120 undetected rapists in the Boston area16, 63% were serial rapists. These 76 serial rapists had, on average, attacked 14 victims, and were responsible for:
• 439 rapes and attempted rapes
• 49 sexual assaults
• 277 acts of sexual abuse against children
• 66 acts of physical abuse against children
• 214 acts of battery against intimate partners
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Characteristics of Undetected Rapists

Sexual Behavior

“Undetected” rapists have consistently been shown to more sexually active than
other men. Apart from their sexually aggressive behavior, they engage in consensual and coercive sex far more often that is typical for men of their age group.

Their sexual activity tends to be an important component of their identities. Thus, rather than being a product of greater sex drive, their increased sexual activity appears to be driven by their view that if they are not very active then they are neither “successful” nor adequate as men.

Attitudes and Beliefs

Sexually aggressive behavior is typically part of a belief system that views
women as sexual objects to be conquered, coerced and used for self-gratification.

Undetected rapists are much more likely to hold stereotyped beliefs about the “proper” roles for women and men in society, and to rigidly adhere to those beliefs.

They adhere to “rape myths” that both justify their aggressive acts and foster them. Their adherence to rape myths and rigid stereotypes frequently allows them to distort their perceptions of their victims’ behavior. For example, because they tell themselves that “women say no to sex even when they really want it,” they can disregard their victims’ obvious signs of terror and resistance.

Emotions and Motivations

Undetected rapists have repeatedly been found to harbor chronic, underlying
feelings of anger and hostility toward women. They typically feel easily slighted by women, and carry grudges against them. This underlying hostility is easily evoked and colors their distorted perceptions of women as “teasers” who either “secretly” want to be coerced into sex, or else “deserve” it.

These men have also consistently been shown to have strong needs to dominate and to be in control of women, and to be particularly fearful of being controlled by women. This characteristic leads them to view sexual relations as “conquests,” and all women as potential “targets” of conquests.

Consistent with their very stereotyped beliefs about sex roles, undetected rapists have been shown to be more emotionally constricted than nonaggressive men. They are less able to label their own emotional experience, and much less emotionally expressive. As a consequence, they are also less capable of resonating with the emotional experience of other people, and are therefore less empathic than nonaggressive men.

Sexually Violent Subcultures

A consistent finding in the recent research on “undetected” sexually violent men
is that most of this violence emerges either directly or indirectly from what have been termed “sexually violent subcultures.” Examples of such subcultures include fraternities and delinquent gangs.

These subcultures are powerful forces that both reflect the rapist’s
views about women and sexual conquest, and also help to shape them. For example, at certain college fraternities the use of violent pornography is a frequent form of “entertainment,” providing explicit images of rape as being acceptable, noncriminal, and the sign of male virility. Within these subcultures, “sexual conquest” – having sex with as many women as possible – becomes a critical measure of how men view themselves and each other. The greater the number of such conquests, the more manly is he viewed. The
use of coercion and violence to secure these conquests is normalized in the subculture and becomes simply another part of the man’s “sexual arsenal.”

Hypermasculinity

Consistent with their stereotyped and rigid views about the “proper” roles of men and women in society, undetected rapists tend to adopt highly “gendered” identities; that is, they see themselves as hyper-masculine, they strive to always behave in rigidly and stereotypically masculine ways, they are always on the alert for any perceived slight to their masculine identities, and they are made very anxious by any situation that might cast doubt on their perceived masculinity. Thus, while in general aggression and violence
are perceived to be more masculine than feminine traits, the rapist tends to view
aggression and violence as crucial markers of his adequacy as a male. They prove to him that he is a “real man.” When such deeply held beliefs are combined with the effects of sexually violent subcultures, as described above, the mixture often becomes dangerous.

The “power” motivation that underlies the constant striving for sexual conquests mixes with the rapist’s underlying hostility toward women and his hypermasculine identity.

When a woman resists his coercive sexual pressure, he is very likely to perceive this as a challenge and affront to his masculinity and to react with anger and aggression, behaviors which restore his sense of adequacy.

Developmental Antecedents

While the traditional view about incarcerated rapists was that they harbored deepseated anger towards their mothers, the evidence indicates that among undetected rapists anger and disappointment about their fathers is far more salient.

For some of these men, damaged relationships with their fathers appears to feed their need to view themselves as hypermasculine, and to drive their rigidity and stereotyped beliefs and behaviors.

Another developmental factor that has been associated with sexual aggression is child abuse. The rate of child abuse among undetected rapists, particularly childhood physical abuse, is much greater than it is among nonviolent men.
http://www.sexualassault.army.mil/files/RAPE_FACT_SHEET.pdf
 

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