25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 08:14 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
OOhhhhhhh !!! Was it exciting for you too ??? Lets everyone imagine we are sexy enough for men to want to rape us !!! Oooohhhhh!!!! That felt good !


You are a digusting insensitive pig.
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 08:15 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
It's even more scary when these things happen so close to home.
OOhhhhhhh !!! Was it exciting for you too ??? Lets everyone imagine we are sexy enough for men to want to rape us !!! Oooohhhhh!!!! That felt good !
I really feel sorry for you. How you could think it is exciting is beyond me. May God have mercy on you.
Ionus
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 08:16 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You are a digusting insensitive pig.
The women's movement does not approve of women being reduced to animals or objects.

I am insensitive ? You post horror stories of rape and for what ? What is your aim ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 08:17 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
How you could think it is exciting is beyond me.
Fear is exciting. Some people seek fear....ever seen a horror movie ? Women love them.....they scream and feel excited.
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 08:21 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
How you could think it is exciting is beyond me.
Fear is exciting. Some people seek fear....ever seen a horror movie ? Women love them.....they scream and feel excited.
As I said, I feel sorry for you. People that act like you are to be pitied.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 08:24 pm
Gang rapes are a particularly vile assault, and the current modus operandi seems to be for the rapists to brazenly videotape their crime--nothing like a little homemade porn. Fortunately, these videos also help to convict them.
Quote:

Holland Man Admits Guilt in Gang Rape
December 1, 2010
Kelly Paris

GRAND HAVEN, MI (WHTC News) – A 43-year-old Holland man could face at least 12 years in prison, and maybe more, after admitting his guilt in an apparent gang rape of a 17-year-old girl at his East 19th Street house this past June.

A plea deal between prosecutors and Kelly Paris was submitted to Ottawa County Circuit Court Judge Ed Post on Wednesday, prior to when Paris' trial was supposed to begin. In it, he agreed to guilty pleas on various felony sexual assault, child abuse and computer crime counts.

Authorities claim that Paris and two 19-year-old men – his son Jordan and friend Sage Lewis – took advantage of the unnamed victim after she apparently passed out during a party at the house. Investigations say that the incident was videotaped.

Free on 25 thousand dollars bond prior to Wednesday’s hearing, Kelly Paris was taken into custody following the proceedings, and will remain held in the Ottawa County Jail without bond until his sentencing on January 10th. The other two men remain free on bond awaiting their own judicial proceedings.

Court officials say that the plea deal could be nullified if subsequent investigation that may be disclosed could indicate further criminal activity.
http://www.whtc.com/news/articles/2010/dec/01/holland-man-admits-guilt-gang-rape/

Ionus
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 08:36 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Gang rapes are a particularly vile assault
And you find them so vile you have to search for them and post them for others like you to enjoy.....
BillW
 
  4  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 08:37 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Quote:
OOhhhhhhh !!! Was it exciting for you too ??? Lets everyone imagine we are sexy enough for men to want to rape us !!! Oooohhhhh!!!! That felt good !

You are a digusting insensitive pig.


I think this person is a very sick, angry person under constant medical care and just has not been taking their medications. There is a high possibility they are already in prison and should have his computer priviledges taken away. Just one more sad individual who should just be ignored........
Ionus
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 08:44 pm
@BillW,
Quote:
I think this person is a very sick, angry person
So says a man who supports women who are searching for and posting horror stories about rape. I find them sickening and gut wrenching and am here to argue the truth about rape. You are here to agree with women and maybe get laid. The women are here to tittilate over domineering men and enjoy having confusing choices taken away.

These are real women who have been raped. This isnt hollywood. You wont discuss the real reasons, just thrill to each post, more insensitive and compelling reading than the last.

You are some real sick fucks.
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 08:52 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
I think this person is a very sick, angry person
So says a man who supports women who are searching for and posting horror stories about rape. I find them sickening and gut wrenching and am here to argue the truth about rape. You are here to agree with women and maybe get laid. The women are here to tittilate over domineering men and enjoy having confusing choices taken away.

These are real women who have been raped. This isnt hollywood. You wont discuss the real reasons, just thrill to each post, more insensitive and compelling reading than the last.

You are some real sick fucks.
You obviously don't find them sickening enough to stop reading them. This thread has been about the horrors of rape, recovery from rape, what can be done to make one safer, etc. I am sorry you can't seem to understand that. Ignoring the horrors of the world doesn't make them go away. Discussing them and trying to find solutions to problems are what make things change.
Ionus
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 09:07 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
You obviously don't find them sickening enough to stop reading them.
NEWSFLASH !! I dont read them...I vote them down so I wont even accidentally read them.

Quote:
what can be done to make one safer
BULLSHIT! I have tried repeatedly to do just that and have been ignored because the solution to the problem of rape focuses on MEN not women. But you all want to be the centre of attention, and feel sorry for poor pitiful women. They have such a hard time of it really. What they need is more protection ! More laws that lock up men whether they are guilty or not ! FEAR THE MIGHTY PENIS !

Quote:
Discussing them and trying to find solutions to problems are what make things change.
Where is the engagement of the valid points I have raised ?

1) More men are raped in gaol then women fullstop.
2) Far too many men are wrongfully accused of rape.
3) Rape as a fantasy (only a fantasy) has clear sexual excitation for women.
4) Women enjoy horror stories. To make real rape an horror story is belittling the victim.
5) There is no discussion of rape, but simply stories to be gloated over ad nauseaum.

Exactly what do you think is being discussed ?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 09:16 pm
These Sexual Assault Referral Centres in the U.K. provide an environment which seems very important in the recovery and healing process.
Quote:

Inside a Sexual Assault Referral Centre
by Amelia Gentleman
The Guardian
25 November 2010

At 11am a young woman wearing pink striped pyjamas is led into a discreet side entrance of St Mary's hospital, Manchester, by a huge, bearded police officer, keys jangling from the breast pocket of his black nylon stab vest, vast brown paper evidence bags tucked beneath his arm.

She says that in the early hours of that morning she was raped by an acquaintance, a man she had spent the evening chatting to in a pub. The police have brought her here to the Sexual Assault Referral Centre (Sarc) to undergo a forensic examination, receive counselling and be advised on and supported in the process of pressing charges.

Everything about the unit has been designed to avoid further humiliation for the victim. The side door is deliberately unmarked, allowing women who have recently been assaulted to avoid the embarrassment of being paraded through the hospital alongside police. The woman is led to a door marked Initial Room, a forensically safe, sterile space with wipe-clean plastic surfaces so that there is no possible contamination of evidence before she is examined. Pictures of orchids and sacks of brightly coloured oriental spices have been hung in a not wholly successful attempt to dilute the clinical atmosphere. A crisis worker sits with her, explaining what is about to happen, while the officer slips across the corridor to brief the doctor.

He runs through his logbook notes of her account, in curtly formal police officialese. "She visited a public house. She met up with a male," he reads. "The offence happened round about two this morning." He explains that she and a girlfriend had met up with a man she vaguely knew, and later the three of them went back to a house; after some time, he said he wanted to have a word with her in private and when she followed him, he raped her. She was shouting a lot, telling him to get off and to stop, and her friend heard and said she would call the police. "At which point he stopped and left the address," the policeman finishes. Beneath the formality he is gently solicitous for the girl's wellbeing and explains that she is exhausted and has had no sleep.

Manchester's police service has a good reputation for its handling of sexual assaults, and this officer has been given extensive training in how to interview women who have been raped. While he can ask her any of the "when", "where", "what" and "how" questions, he knows he is not to ask "why". A line of questioning that looks at her own decisions, questions her choice to go home with someone, to be alone with them, suggests that she should blame herself for the assault and must be avoided.

The woman walked home by herself and the police arrived at her house in the early hours of the morning to take a statement and collect her jeans and underwear for DNA testing, before bringing her here for a full examination. The doctor, a specialist in handling rape cases, makes her own notes, before going to meet the victim to start a physical examination that will take more than two hours. Someone has stuck a public information poster on the wall above her computer that declares: "Rape – short word, long sentence." But the trouble is that rape, short word or not, usually doesn't result in a long sentence, which is why this unit has been set up.

Campaigners tell us that only 6% of reported rapes in this country end up with the rapist convicted, one of the lowest rates in Europe. The figure is controversial, dismissed by some as unhelpfully discouraging, making victims feel so cynical about the process that they do not bother to press charges. The police point out that the rate of conviction for those who are actually charged with rape is a more encouraging 58%, but there remain a large number of reported rapes where charges are never pressed. Years of hostile treatment in the courts, at police stations, at the hands of juries, has left a lingering sense that rape victims are not believed, and many prefer not to submit to unwelcome scrutiny. The 29 Sarcs in England and Wales are described officially as victim-centred medical units, one-stop shops designed to improve the immediate care provided to rape victims, primarily to help them recover better from the attack, and as a side-effect, to boost the conviction rate by supporting women through the prosecution process.

Sarc is staffed 24-7, with doctors constantly on call, so that victims can be seen quickly whenever they are attacked – usually in the middle of the night (with spikes in numbers around Christmas party time, freshers' week, the hot weeks of summer and any time when people are drinking more than usual).

The unit is equipped to gather the most comprehensive forensic evidence, offer advice on sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy, and provide counselling and assistance throughout a legal process. For those women who decide not to press charges, the support is still on offer. Clothes are stored, and forensic evidence kept in a freezer for seven years in case they change their mind and want to take legal action later.

Vera Baird, Labour's former solicitor general and a champion of the new system, remembers how badly women were treated as recently as a decade ago. "It's very different from going to a police station and knocking on the glass window, probably in a crowded, noisy waiting room, blood on the floor, to tell someone you'd been raped. You would have had to sit there and wait until they found a police medical officer, who'd perhaps come straight from certifying someone dead in the road, or assessing a heroin addict's ability to give evidence, and who wouldn't be a specialist in this area of forensics," she says. "Sarcs treat you like a patient, someone to whom this has happened, with none of the scepticism of a police officer. This gives people the fortitude to go ahead and report the attack."

Upstairs at the morning meeting there are eight women – doctors, counsellors, independent sexual violence advisers (who help victims navigate the legal process) – discussing the cases that have come through over the weekend. First there is the mother of a three-year-old girl, who suspects that the estranged father may have abused her daughter because she has been complaining of a pain and has started crying when she sees him. The girl is booked to come in for an examination later in the morning.

Then there is a student who had a lot to drink and woke up on the floor of the student accommodation, not knowing what had happened for several hours. She is worried she may have been raped.

Next a 17-year-old woman who had been out drinking with her friends. She met up with three lads, whom she recognised, and ended up in a hotel room; she suspects that her drink was spiked and remembers very little of what happened, just the sensation of her face being pushed on to the bed and her arm being bitten.

Last is a Bulgarian woman, in her 20s, whose story had to be untangled through an interpreter. It seems she has been trafficked, brought over here by a Bulgarian man, with the suggestion that she would be employed to look after his children, and perhaps have an opportunity to marry him at some point in the future. She has been examined and counselled but is unwilling to press charges

"She was looking for a better life, but was treated really badly. She was raped on the first day and only managed to escape after two weeks," a counsellor says. "She's asked the police not to take action because she is frightened about reprisals, because the man knows where she lives in Bulgaria."

Staff run through the cases expressing little emotion, skimming through notes biro'd on to pink paper, elbows on the table. Only occasionally do they wince at an unexpected detail.

Michelle Carol, one of the forensic physicians who perform detailed examinations on victims, says women are not put under any pressure to report the case to the police if they don't want to, but staff will try to help them see that they will be believed. "Sometimes they are nervous about how they will be received by the police. They think they will be blamed. A lot of the time they are blaming themselves anyway – if only I hadn't got drunk, if only I hadn't got in that taxi by myself – so they wonder why anyone else would come to another conclusion. We have to explain that this is not about their behaviour, it is about someone else's," she says.

"The police have historically a bad reputation in this area and it's not something that they have shaken off. The view was that many allegations were false, and that they had to weed them out. Often the public are the same. Sometimes we will get a client who thinks that she hasn't really been raped because it doesn't fit into the stereotype of someone being dragged off the streets and beaten, abused and then violently raped. But the bottom line is if you haven't given consent, it's rape, and that's it."

She says most people have ill-informed preconceptions about how a rape victim will behave. "People think they would shout and fight, but they don't. Often they freeze, do nothing. They think they are going to die and think only about self-preservation. They tell themselves: 'Do what he says and then it will be over, and maybe I will survive.' They don't always want to report the attack straight away. They want to crawl into a corner and forget it," she says.

"We don't want to give the impression that we are judging anyone or blaming them, but alcohol is very often a feature because that is when people are often vulnerable. The majority of rapists are acquaintances or well known to them or someone they have spent an evening chatting to, rather than a total stranger."

Each examination can last up to three or four hours, taken at the individual's pace, and is painstakingly methodical and precise to ensure that nothing is missed and that all the evidence found is carefully measured and noted, so it will stand up to scrutiny in court. The work is inevitably gruelling, and being alone with the victim and one crisis worker for long stretches can be quite isolating. Even after several years with the unit, Carol is still occasionally shocked by "the callousness of human nature", constantly "being exposed to the horror of what humans can do".

"If you were emotionally moved by every case, you would be no help to anyone, so you develop coping mechanisms but it's not always possible," she says. "Gang rape is particularly hard. You can understand that there are individuals who are just nasty pieces of work or who have their own mental health problems, but when you have a group of people, you wonder why none of them stood back and said: 'This is wrong.' We see that on a regular basis."

Staff here have a good sense of why rape cases still do not result in as many successful prosecutions as they should. When cases rest on consent, pitting one person's words against another, with no witness to support either side, then even the most expertly gathered forensic evidence may not secure a conviction.

Sharon Scotson, a DCI with Greater Manchester police, who works with Sarc to try to increase the prosecution rate, says victims need to be handled sensitively right from the start. "If you don't get it right in the first instance – if you don't secure evidence, get witnesses, gather CCTV, if the victim is not dealt with properly the first time – then you could lose an investigation," she says. "If the police officer says, 'Well, why did you do that?' then the victim will be lost straight away."

Part of the problem, she concedes, is that successful campaigns have helped police officers shed preconceptions about rape and sensitised NHS staff in handling these cases, but the general public – from which juries are drawn – remain ill-informed, and so cases will be lost.

"It's down to 12 members of a jury, who will have their own preconceived notions," she says. "We have to rely on our victims being able to vocalise, to be able to justify themselves: 'Why didn't you scream, why didn't you run away, why didn't you defend yourself?'

"The victim has to prove that something has happened to them. If you have had a burglary, you don't have to prove that you have been burgled. People tend to believe you."

Alison Barber, a detective sergeant who heads a rape investigation unit in Manchester, adds: "That's why it's so important to have specially trained police working with Sarcs. The victims who come to speak to us are believed, 100%, and it's our responsibility to gather the evidence and put their case before the courts."

A lot of cases are dropped by the Crown Prosecution Service before they get to court because it judges that there is not a "reasonable chance of conviction". If the victim is classified as "vulnerable" in some way, Home Office research suggests that the chances of conviction drop further. The Manchester Sarc's own analysis shows that the majority of the 1,000 or so women, men and children who visit the unit every year have some kind of vulnerability.

"I've seen everyone, from a prominent member of a political party down to an alcohol- and drug-addicted sex worker, but certain groups are over-represented," the unit's clinical director Dr Catherine White says. "People with mental health problems, alcohol problems, learning difficulties, children in care. That's obvious: predators are going to target the vulnerable. It is like a lion with a herd of gazelles . . . they are going to pick off the weakest. When we did an audit, 55% [of the people seen by the unit] were classified as vulnerable in some way."

She agrees that the women who come in are often inclined in the first instance to blame themselves, and are surprised at the way they've handled the situation. "We explain that just because you flirt with somebody, that doesn't mean you want anal sex in the public toilets down the road 10 minutes later," she says. "Also, people in stressful situations don't always manage to do what they'd like to do. Even if it's just an argument with your boss, you never think of the killer putdown line until later on. You always think, I should have said this or done that. You don't think of it until later."

Bernie Ryan, the centre's manager, would like to see more prosecutions, but she concedes that it's not always the best thing for the woman. "We always have to ask ourselves: 'If it happened to me, who would I want to tell?' If the perpetrator was my best friend's husband I might decide to tell nobody," she says. Still, she believes there is evidence to suggest that more cases are going to court than ever before across Manchester, estimating that the conviction rate there is around 68%, slightly higher than the national average.

The last government was committed to increasing the number of Sarcs across the country, in line with recommendations set out by Baroness Vivien Stern, who published an independent review into how rape complaints are handled just before the election. Campaigners have been alarmed by signals from the new government, with its early announcement of anonymity for rape defendants (only reversed earlier this month, after widespread fury), and there was further dismay at a decision by home secretary Theresa May to cancel an inquiry into what lessons could be learned from flawed police handling of the John Worboys and Kirk Reid rape cases (a London taxi driver and a chef and children's football coach who were both, separately, allowed to rape and sexually assault multiple victims before being caught).

A Home Office spokesman would only comment: "The government remains committed to ensuring every victim has access to the dedicated medical and support services they need to help them through their ordeal."

But Stern recently voiced concern that her recommendations would be ignored in the rush to find services that could easily be cut. "It would be very, very sad if we went back to the bad old days where rape victims were dealt with by untrained police and when they need a forensic examination they wait for hours in the custody suite for a police surgeon. We don't want to go back to those days," she said in a BBC interview. "Rape victims must not be forgotten."

Ryan says she would be "foolish not to be concerned" about future funding, but for the moment she is optimistic that their work is too valued to be lost.

In the children's room, where an effort has been made to cheer the atmosphere up with framed photographs of jelly babies and pink-iced cupcakes, Joanne Muccio, a child advocate, has been preparing a 13-year-old for a doctor's meeting and counselling. The girl was raped about two months ago by a family friend. She reported it a few weeks later and a test showed that she had been infected with chlamydia. It's too long ago for any forensic evidence to remain (a week is the outside limit), but the meeting will focus on offering support to the mother, who is very distressed, counselling the girl and discussing the legal process.

"If it's a child, I always ask them first: Do you have a loud voice? Do you know how to shout? You just shout, 'I don't want to do that, Joanne!' if you don't want to do anything," she says, anxious to ensure that a physical examination never echoes the original assault.

Downstairs in the examination suite, the doctor has finished collecting evidence from the 18-year-old who was raped in the night, and she has fallen asleep on a sofa in the room next door, waiting for the policeman to finish sealing up the evidence bags and drive her home. The doctor has found a scratch on the inside leg. "That doesn't show that it was forced, but there is more likely to be an injury if it is; the evidence would suggest that if you have an injury it is more likely to have been non-consensual. Still, most of the people we see don't have any injuries. Even if you have never had sex before it's quite likely there won't be any injuries. People don't realise that," she says.

The patient was not overtly distraught, the doctor says. "She was pretty exhausted. She said, 'I feel dirty,' which is what many say. Very few are overtly distressed by the time they get here. Very few are desperately, desperately upset. They feel they just have to keep on going. We do laugh and joke. The crisis worker will be there, on the side of the bed, holding her hand."

She thinks the case will hinge, as many cases do, on consent: "I just gather the evidence. I can't judge because I don't know the full story." The girl plans to press charges, but a formal police video interview will not be done until the following day, to allow her to get some sleep. The police officer hopes her resolve will not waver.

"Rape is one of the hardest offences to prove. That's the problem. A lot depends on how the victim comes across in interviews, how they come across on the stand, as to how the jury takes it," the officer says.

"You sometimes wish they would report, but knowing what happens when they go through the justice system you can understand why so many don't," the doctor says.

Even those who do not go on to report a rape will receive support from the staff for several weeks if they want it. White says the impact of their work is often visible in the demeanour of the woman as she leaves the unit. "The person who walks out two or three hours later is hugely different to the one who walked in. They might well be smiling. You treat them like human beings. It is part of the healing process," she says.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/nov/25/rape-sexual-assault-referral-centre
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  3  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 09:17 pm
@Ionus,
The title of this thread is Hey, can a WOMAN ask to get raped? No one denies men are raped. No one thinks it is okay that men are raped. No one here thinks it is a good thing men get falsely accused of rape. We have all stated that a woman that does that needs to be prosecuted.

This thread is about REAL rapes that happen. It has been mostly about women because guess what? MORE WOMEN ARE RAPED THAN MEN!

I haven't seen you be even slightly concerned about women learning how to better protect themselves and guess what? THAT INCLUDES THEY SHOULDN'T PUT THEMSELVES in the position of getting that drunk, but that still does not mean they should be raped. Men shouldn't get that drunk either. Bad things happen to them also.

You and your other two buddies have tried to hijack this thread for your female hating agenda and guess what? WE AIN'T BUYING THAT EITHER.

Now, if you will notice, I have stopped responding to Bill and Hawkeye and guess what? I WON'T BE RESPONDING TO YOU AGAIN EITHER.
Ionus
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 09:38 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
MORE WOMEN ARE RAPED THAN MEN!
Bullshit. Emotional reaction from another libbie lobby drama queen. I supported my position. Where is the support for yours ?

Quote:
I WON'T BE RESPONDING TO YOU AGAIN EITHER.
Of course logic should be met with emotional melodrama....you are a woman.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2010 09:56 pm
@Ionus,
I have often wonder why Firefly love to post these stories and why AM love to react be expressing emotions over them.

They do seem in some strange way to both get off on those stories.

Evil men all over the place alway ready and eager to jump out of the shadows and attack a passing woman seem to be a favorite fantasy for both of them.

The fact that reported rapes are at a thirty years low seem to upset them when that fact is pointed out with AM even once saying that is meaningless because the numbers are a year old as if she was hoping that all at once the rate of rape had jump up once more.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 12:49 am
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae, these three cannot deal with the actuality of rape. That's why those news stories bother them. To listen to them, rape is such a rare occurrence, it's a wonder that women would be concerned about it at all. Either they deny rape, or they blame the victim for her own rape, but the one thing that they do not do is acknowledge that rapes are constantly occurring--rapes of females of all ages--in a wide variety of circumstances--and most of the rapists are not strangers to the victims.

Since they can't deal with actual rapes, or the actual crime of rape, they've used this thread to vent their hostility toward women--toward women in general, and toward the woman who have posted in this thread. And boy, do these three have a lot of hostility toward women. These are angry frightened men. They see women as much too powerful. Women not only have the power to say, "No" to their sexual advances, women have the power to have them arrested when they violate their bodies without consent. We have gotten laws passed to solidify our rights to protect our bodies and these guys don't like that one bit. In fact, in one way or another, the three of them are all whining and moaning that they now need protection from us, and those nasty rape laws. By simply exerting our rights as citizens to be protected from unwanted sexual assaults, they contend we are victimizing them. That's interesting logic. Rolling Eyes

If they are genuinely interested in the problems of sexual assaults of men, which they do not seem to be, they could simply do what women have done. They could organize groups to raise public awareness of the problem, and they could seek to provide more support services specifically aimed to encourage male victims to come forward to receive appropriate help and counseling as well as assistance with the legal process. They would work to help reduce the stigma felt by male victims of sexual assault, just as women have worked to reduce the stigma for female victims. There is nothing that women have accomplished in this area that men could not also do. If they were concerned, they would be doing such things.

The issue of false accusations, which we have both addressed, at length, throughout this thread, is actually a non issue in terms of this particular topic. We have been talking about the actual crime of rape--rapes which actually occur. By definition, "false accusations" refer to those instances where no rape occurred. There is no reason for this particular thread to address false police reports. Those are not crimes of rape. That the three misogynists persist in the "false accusations" chant in this particular thread simply becomes another opportunity for them to vent more hostility toward women, engage in more rape denial, and whine about the victimization of men. Had these three any real concern for the problem, they would start their own thread on the topic. It clearly does not belong in this thread, which deals with actual rapes, and they defeat their own cause by trying to inject the issue in an inappropriate venue.

What is clear from reading the posts of the three misogynists is that they see the issue of rape laws as a battle between men and women--a battle between male interests and female interests. That's why they see those who support rape laws as being "anti-male" and even "anti-sex". They've belittled other male posters as well as the women in that regard. If these three had any basic respect for women they would realize that male interests do not include the right to non consensual sex and it is only non consensual sex which is affected by these rape laws. And men, as well as women, should be protected from sexual assaults, and these laws do protect both genders from such assaults.

The notion that any of the women posting here finds this topic sexually titillating is a rather sick warped male fantasy that women desire to be raped. We are not talking about romance novel erotica in this thread--we are discussing the ugly, demeaning, reality of rape--unwanted sexual intercourse--a sexual assault which is deeply destructive to a victim's self esteem and which produces long lasting negative effects and consequences. And only by looking at the actual rapes which occur around us, and which occur all of the time, does one get a full sense of the horror of the crime, the callousness of rapists, and the one constant factor in all of them--rapes occur because a vulnerable victim is available to a potential rapist. And all women know that, at some time in their life, regardless of anything they might do, or might not do, they might be that vulnerable person targeted by a potential rapist. Our possible proximity to a potential rapist is the one factor we cannot completely control--no matter what we do--and that leaves all of us somewhat vulnerable.

That's why this topic is important to us--and to women in general. We need to know how rapists operate, how they pick victims, how to be alert, how to protect ourselves, where to go and what to do if we are sexually assaulted, and we need to stop battering ourselves with guilt and shame and self blame for the acts of rapists. The only person responsible for the rape is the one who commits the act--the rapist. We want to prevent rapes, we want men to help other men to understand that rape is never an acceptable act, under any circumstances, and we want rapists punished for their acts.

And if the three misogynists don't like that, Arella Mae, tough for them. Rape is not a "feminist" issue, it is something that concerns most women and every man who has a female in his life or his family that he cares about. We have made a lot of progress in addressing the problem of rape, and hopefully we will continue to do more. Talking about it is an important aspect of that. And even threads like this one help.

Not only have the women-bashers not laid a glove on us, Arella Mae, their very posts expose the destructive attitudes that contribute to continued sexual violence toward women. The more they belittle and mock, the more they expose the sexism and the pseudo-macho mentality that helps make rape a thriving crime. By clearly showing what women are up against, in trying to address the problem of rape, they actually help us get more support for this issue--they demonstrate that the problem is real. They are such fools, Arella Mae, they don't realize that. Laughing





Ionus
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 01:28 am
@firefly,
There you have it. Misandry exposed for all its sneering snickering pettiness. I bet everyone of them is a card carrying libbie lobbyist.

They dont care if men are sacrificed for their benefit. That is what is supposed to happen. They can always find another....like at the end of the Titanic...their love will go on.....awwww...isnt that lovely.....never mind the dead man, they are women hear them roar.....hear them roar about what frightened little shits they are. They dont care about rape victims or men falsely accused...they only care about themselves and horror stories.

Of course women need protection, they are frightened little females scared of life. Man up and accept facts about your emotional little world.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 08:28 am
@firefly,
As far as I am concerned, the only thing they have accomplished is proving your post (4431761) to be right on target. I do feel sorry for them in one regard though. To have such callous views about such a horrible thing as rape is beyond comprehension and I do feel sorry for anyone with so little regard for others.

Elizabeth Smart seems to be having a bit of trouble with some of the testimony in court. How could she not? I admire her. She is a strong young woman determined to not let this event in her life destroy her life.

Quote:
Smart storms from court during doctor's testimony

By JENNIFER DOBNER, Associated Press Jennifer Dobner, Associated Press – Wed Dec 1, 9:17 pm ET

SALT LAKE CITY – Kidnap victim Elizabeth Smart stormed from a Utah courtroom Wednesday as a psychiatrist testified that her alleged attacker had been motivated by a desire to have children and create a new race in an imaginary Zion.

Forensic psychiatrist Paul Whitehead took the witness stand under subpoena during the federal trial of former street preacher Brian David Mitchell on kidnapping and other charges.

Whitehead, who was subpoenaed to testify by the defense, said he gleaned this information from the journals of Wanda Eileen Barzee, Mitchell's estranged wife, and police reports.

Whitehead said Mitchell and Barzee had been caught shoplifting baby clothes and that they had chastised Smart for saying she did not want to have children.

"Mr. Mitchell was talking with Miss Smart about having babies to the point where Miss Smart actually picked out a name in case that happened," Whitehead said.

At that point, a visibly angry Smart got up from her seat in the front row of the courtroom and left to a private area. Her mother followed. They both returned to the courtroom about 30 minutes later.

The remarks came as Whitehead explained some of the odd characteristics or red flags he said he saw when trying to determine whether Mitchell suffered from mental illness.

Prosecutors, who believe Mitchell is faking mental illness to avoid prosecution, later tried to diffuse the remarks by noting that Barzee wrote her journals during a period of time when she was suffering an untreated mental illness.

Whitehead is one of more than nearly two dozens witnesses defense attorneys have called seeking to build an insanity defense. Attorneys don't dispute the facts of the case, but contend that because of his mental illness, Mitchell can't be held responsible for the crimes.

If convicted of the charges, the 57-year-old street preacher could spend the rest of his life in prison.

Whitehead, is a staff physician at the Utah State Hospital, where both Mitchell and Barzee were incarcerated after being found incompetent for trial in parallel state cases. Mitchell was at the Provo hospital from 2005 to 2008, when federal prosecutors took over his case.

Whitehead believes Mitchell suffers from a major psychotic illness and diagnosed him with a delusional disorder — a condition he described as holding "a false belief based on incorrect interpretations about external realities and that are firmly maintained" despite a lack of supporting evidence."

The tricky part of such disorders, however, is that they typically manifest only in one area of a person's life, Whitehead said. So Mitchell exhibits delusions related to religion, but seems otherwise normal in other aspects of life, said the doctor, who spent nearly five hours on the stand.

"These guys can be highly functioning, highly manipulative and it's not so much the belief, but what they are doing with the belief that's important," he said.

Whitehead said he believed Mitchell's disorder led him to routinely confuse coincidence with "confidence that God is providing for him."

Earlier witnesses, including both Smart and Barzee, have said Mitchell was insincere in his beliefs and that he used religion to manipulate others. Whitehead said he didn't believe manipulation alone could explain what Mitchell had done and that he seems very emotionally committed to his beliefs.

Cook also tried to dilute the impact of Whitehead's assessment of Mitchell's by comparing the hours he spent evaluating Mitchell to Smart's nine months in captivity.

Whitehead said he had only spent about 32 hours in direct contact with Mitchell and conceded that none of it came during the nine months Smart was missing — from June 2002 to March 2003.

Mitchell was again removed from court Wednesday for disrupting the proceedings by singing hymns. He watches the trial from a holding cell on a television. On Tuesday, he was taken out on a stretcher by paramedics after suffering an apparent seizure. He spent several hours at a hospital before being returned to a jail.

The trial is in its fourth week and expected to last until Dec. 10.

Ionus
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 08:33 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I do feel sorry for anyone with so little regard for others.
On that note lets all feast on more tittilating stories of rape.....I hope this is a juicy one.

Quote:
She is a strong young woman determined to not let this event in her life destroy her life.
She is a psycho out for revenge.

I know a woman who was raped and she told me the only way to go forward was to forgive.....everything else destroys your soul. You might want to think about that before you feast on the next lovely rape story.....great reading isnt it ?
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 08:46 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Whitehead believes Mitchell suffers from a major psychotic illness and diagnosed him with a delusional disorder — a condition he described as holding "a false belief based on incorrect interpretations about external realities and that are firmly maintained" despite a lack of supporting evidence."

The tricky part of such disorders, however, is that they typically manifest only in one area of a person's life, Whitehead said. So Mitchell exhibits delusions related to religion, but seems otherwise normal in other aspects of life, said the doctor, who spent nearly five hours on the stand.

"These guys can be highly functioning, highly manipulative and it's not so much the belief, but what they are doing with the belief that's important," he said.


That disorder seem to cover every person on the planet except for atheists.
0 Replies
 
 

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