25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
BillRM
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 07:05 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Some acquaintance rapes do involve considerable force and even weapons.


And Firefly some acquaintance rapes never even happen so what is your point of your posting?


Source: WABC-TV

Hofstra student recants rape story

By Scott Curkin; Eyewitness News

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. (WABC) -- The student allegedly raped in a Hofstra dorm has as recanted her story.

All four suspects being held in connection with the rape claim, have been released.

The Nassau DA released the following statement.

"Moments ago my office moved to dismiss all charges against four men accused of committing a sexual assault on the campus of Hofstra University. Late this evening, during the continuation of the Nassau County Police Department's investigation of the allegation, and under questioning by my office's chief trial attorney and chief sex crimes prosecutor, the alleged victim of the sexual assault admitted that the encounter that took place early Sunday morning was consensual. Following the interview, my office moved quickly to appear before a night court judge to dismiss all charges and request that the judge order the individuals' immediate release. Nassau County Judge Robert Bruno dismissed the charges and ordered their release. I have launched an immediate criminal investigation into the statements and reports given by the woman in connection with this incident. Further details regarding this investigation will be released at a later time."

Read more: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id...

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 08:07 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Some acquaintance rapes do involve considerable force and even weapons
Some but not very many...if this offense was just as good as rape, if it was rape, it would not need its own name. This is part of the rebranding effort carried out by the rape feminists, as what is called "acquaintance rape" in most cases is consent confusion, something that was not till the late 80's even a misdemeanor offense. Now we are supposed to think this is as bad as when a guy holds a knife to a woman's throat, ripes her panties off, and shoves his penis in her.....No. Not only is confusion of consent not rape, it should never have been made a crime, and should be dealt with in the public health system. Those few "acquaintance rapes" that are real rape we can call rape just like any other rape, there is no need for the term "acquaintance rape" and the fact that their is should alert us all that a fraud is being perpetrated.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 09:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Some but not very many...if this offense was just as good as rape, if it was rape, it would not need its own name.


I guess you can't read.

Quote:
Jacques then pleaded no contest to three of the four charges against him, including sexual penetration by a foreign object with force and violence, forcible rape and dissuading a witness by force or threat.


The offense was RAPE--FORCIBLE RAPE

And he did use a weapon...a deadly weapon.

You are now making up your own definitions again..

Acquaintance rape means the victim was raped by someone she knew--she was not raped by a stranger. And acquaintance rape can be just as violent and threatening as stranger rape--as it was in the case I just posted. And most women are raped by someone known to them.

One reason for posting these actual rape cases is to dispel the mythology you keep presenting. There is no "confused consent" in acquaintance rape--there is no consent in rape.

"Confused consent" is the lame rationalization of a rapist who is trying to blame the victim. If he wasn't absolutely clear about her consent, he should have stopped.

No defense attorney in his right mind would ever claim "confused consent" if his client was accused of rape. That's because "confused consent" is non consent--it means consent was not clear to the man--and the confusion should have been clarified, by him, before the act took place.

Acquaintance rapes are not more benign than other types of rapes--they can be as violent and forceful as stranger rapes, and they can be much more emotionally difficult for the victim to deal with because her attacker is known to her.

The only thing you succeed in proving is how distorted your thinking is.

firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 09:26 pm
It is rather shocking that elderly and disabled female nursing home residents are not safe from sexual assaults and rapes. I very recently posted the case of an 89 year old woman raped in her room by a 17 year old kitchen worker in her nursing home in the U.K..

A recent investigation by the Chicago Tribune has uncovered a rather alarming lack of security and staffing that has contributed to sexual assaults and rapes of female nursing home residents in Chicago, committed not by employees or visitors, but by male residents of these facilities--men who are often mentally disturbed and sexually violent, and who had access to the elderly or disabled females.
Quote:

Nursing home sexual violence: 86 Chicago cases since July 2007 — but only 1 arrest
Rape allegations were reported in a quarter of city's 119 nursing homes in those two and a half years, records show
By David Jackson and Gary Marx, Tribune reporters
January 26, 2010

Authorities have investigated at least 86 cases of sexual violence against elderly and disabled residents of Chicago nursing homes since July 2007, but only one of those cases resulted in an arrest, a Tribune investigation has found.

Allegations of criminal sexual assault, or rape, were reported in a quarter of Chicago's 119 nursing homes during those 2 1/2 years, government records show.

State law requires nursing homes to notify police immediately when they receive an allegation of sexual violence or abuse. However, no police reports were filed in connection with at least nine alleged sexual attacks reported by the state Department of Public Health, according to Chicago police records released to the Tribune. In a 10th case, the allegation was reported to police months after the incident.

Police and state investigative reports depict the terror endured by elderly and disabled women in some city nursing facilities where predatory males troll through common areas and unlocked bedrooms with little supervision.

Almost all of the 86 cases the Tribune examined involved residents attacking other residents. Only a handful of the alleged attackers were employees or visitors; the lone successful prosecution was of an orderly.

The frightening atmosphere is another consequence of Illinois' unusual reliance on nursing homes to house younger psychiatric patients with sometimes violent criminal records. Many understaffed facilities are ill-equipped to treat these residents or monitor their behavior.

Government records show that the 30 Chicago facilities where rapes were reported were roughly twice as likely to house convicted felons and mentally ill patients as the 89 city nursing homes without a sexual assault allegation.

At Rainbow Beach Care Center on the South Side, a 61-year-old woman said she was afraid to fight or scream and could only say, "No, no, no, please," as she was allegedly raped by a schizophrenic 47-year-old man with a "history of inappropriate sexual behavior toward females," according to a state health department report. When a police report was filed months later, it said the woman had called the sex "consensual."

A physician had previously ordered that the alleged attacker be given periodic shots of the drug Depo-Provera, a form of chemical castration used on male sex offenders. But state health inspectors found no medical record indicating those shots were given. State investigators also said the facility failed to conduct a "thorough investigation" to determine whether the same man had raped a second woman.

A few miles away at All Faith Pavilion, a female resident was hospitalized in a "catatonic state" with a swollen black eye, broken nose and human bite marks, state records show. She told authorities she was raped by a schizophrenic48-year-old male resident in the facility. The woman remained hospitalized for at least a month, a state report said.

No charges were brought in the Rainbow Beach and All Faith cases.

The owners and administrator of All Faith declined interview requests. Eric Rothner, a co-owner of Rainbow Beach, issued a written statement saying: "Every day, we confront a unique set of challenges and we deal with them realizing that if it were not for our facilities, our residents would be living on the streets. All of us caring for this population are keenly aware of these issues and work to overcome them 24 hours a day, seven days a week."

Most of the 30 city homes with alleged attacks had substandard staffing levels, which experts call a key indicator of patient safety. Of the 23 homes that federal authorities have rated on a ratio of nursing staff to residents, 21 were rated "below" or "well below" average on staffing levels, while two others were deemed average, the Tribune found.

In addition to 48 reports of criminal sexual assault, which is a felony, Chicago police records show 28 allegations of criminal sexual abuse at city nursing facilities since July 2007. Those sexual abuse cases, which include charges of molestation and groping, can be misdemeanors under some circumstances.

One of the nine alleged attacks that did not turn up in police records released to the Tribune came to light in May 2008 during a state inspection of Rothner's Sheridan Shores Care & Rehabilitation Center on the North Side. Three "alert and oriented" women described "the fear they were experiencing at night time" when they awoke to find strange men in their rooms, sometimes standing over their beds, according to the state inspection report.

One woman said: "It scared me to death!" Another recounted staving off "2 attempted rapes during the night when male residents entered her room using the stairwell," the state report said. A facility investigation confirmed one woman's allegation about a male intruder standing over her bed, but Sheridan Shores' administrator denied to state investigators knowledge of any attempted rape.

Although both police and state health inspectors investigate allegations of sexual violence in nursing homes, the Tribune found that the two agencies rarely communicate with each other about the incidents and do not typically share reports on violent incidents or pool their expertise and resources.

The extent of the violence in Chicago nursing homes was unknown to the state ombudsman's office, which fields abuse complaints from nursing home residents and their families. That agency investigated only two sexual abuse allegations in Chicago homes during a recent 12-month period, according to its records, while police listed 27 reports of sexual assault at city nursing homes during that time.

"We believe the reports are less frequent than they should be — we think there is something hidden here," said Karen Roberto, a Virginia Tech professor who studies sexual assaults against the elderly in nursing facilities.

The small number of arrests related to recent rape allegations in Chicago nursing homes — 48 rape reports, one arrest — sharply contrasts with figures on sexual assault allegations citywide, official figures show.

Last year, Chicago police investigated 1,446 criminal sexual assault reports and made 450 arrests. Though some rapes can involve multiple defendants and some arrests can be linked to reports from the previous year, that amounts to roughly one arrest for every three reports.

Similarly, the FBI estimates that nationally there were 89,000 rape reports to law enforcement agencies in 2008 and 22,584 arrests.

Experts say a variety of factors can interfere with investigating or prosecuting sexual assault reports in nursing homes. Often the victims suffer from dementia or appear delusional and can't describe the attacks in enough detail to assist investigators.

In December 2008, for example, a health care worker found evidence of sexual trauma on an elderly female resident of Warren Park Health & Living Center on the Northwest Side. The woman, who was hospitalized after the alleged attack, said a man came into her room and sexually assaulted her, but she "was unable to provide any further (information)," according to a Chicago police report.

Some facility residents are afraid to speak out because they live alongside their alleged attackers, others are anxious about alienating their caregivers or being moved from the only homes they have, and many simply feel too weak to face the ordeal of police questioning and forensic examinations.

"When they're at the end of their life, a lot of times people give up. It takes a lot of strength to go to police," said Karla Vierthaler, outreach coordinator at the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape.

Some cases become compromised because residents delay reporting the alleged attacks until they are visited by a relative or trusted caretaker. By then, any DNA or forensic evidence can be lost.

A Tribune review of police and state health reports found that although many facility operators responded immediately to rape allegations, some unwittingly cleaned up crime scenes rather than properly preserving evidence.

Others downplayed the incidents as consensual sex. They "act in their own self-interest rather than the interests of the residents," said Holly Ramsey-Klawsnik, a Massachusetts-based sociologist and mental health clinician.

For their part, police sometimes drop their investigations too quickly when faced with the host of obstacles from both victims and facility employees, said Ronald Costen, a former criminal prosecutor who directs Temple University's Protective Services Institute.

"You have to treat these cases of sexual assault in a long-term care setting like coming across a dead body on the side of the road — you have to look for hard, forensic evidence," Costen said.

In addition, experts said, police sometimes decide that mentally ill perpetrators lack the intent needed for successful prosecution and may have a better shot at treatment in nursing facilities rather than prison.

Only one of the 48 Chicago cases involving the most serious allegation, criminal sexual assault, was referred to the Cook County state's attorney's office for felony review, according to a records search done for the Tribune by prosecutors.

Chicago police say they vigorously pursue every sexual assault allegation. "We're not real quick to drop investigations ... that's not the case," said Thomas Byrne, chief of detectives for the department. "Sexual assaults are something we take very seriously."

In April 2008, police were summoned after midnight to Somerset Place on the North Side after a mentally ill 28-year-old resident told staff that he had beaten, then raped a schizophrenic 53-year-old woman after forcing his way into her fourth-floor bedroom, records and interviews show.

The man told police "he wanted to make a confession," and a police report said he sexually assaulted his female housemate "without the victim's consent." Sent to the emergency room with a blood-filled and swollen black eye, the woman told police and Somerset employees she had been sexually assaulted.

The victim's mother, Dorothy Foster, of Bolingbrook, saw her daughter at the facility the next day. "I just broke down," Foster said. "It was so bad."

But in the end, no arrest was made in the case. According to a police detective's report, the victim refused to cooperate with officers. She and the male resident now live in different facilities.

Somerset, another Rothner nursing home, sent a description of the incident to the state Department of Public Health as required by law, and the facility has not been accused of wrongdoing in the case.

Somerset has had seven reports of alleged sexual violence since July 2007, more than any other Chicago nursing home, records show. Federal and state authorities this month moved to revoke its state nursing home license and cut off its federal funding because of citations for abuse, safety breaches and other problems. The facility is contesting those actions.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/ct-met-nursing-home-rape-20100126,0,5898338,full.story

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 09:39 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
"Confused consent" is the lame rationalization of a rapist who is trying to blame the victim. If he wasn't absolutely clear about her consent, he should have stopped
I swear that you must have some psychiatric disorder that renders you incapable of honesty..

Here is a quote from someone who agrees with your position, but at least this person has enough personal integrity to acknowledge that there is a major opposing argument....this would be the very same arguement that I have been making through this nearly 300 page thread..

Quote:
Why hasn't it worked? Perhaps it's because making rape prevention the responsibility of young women teaches students that guys can't be expected to be responsible for their own actions. Not surprisingly, that results in student bodies eager to let rapists off the hook and campus policies (like the one recently implemented at Tufts that forces victims into "mediation" with their rapists) that treat rape as an unfortunate disagreement instead of like the violent crime it is. Make no mistake about the danger of these equanimous attitudes -- in his 2002 landmark study of 1,882 male college students in the Boston area, Dr. David Lisak demonstrated that most campus rapes are perpetrated not by well-meaning boys confused about consent but by repeat-offender sociopaths who know exactly what they're doing. Treating rape like an unfortunate but understandable miscommunication doesn’t just deny victims justice and downplay the traumatic nature of the experience -- it allows rapists to remain free to rape again and again.

Meanwhile, we set an impossibly high bar of behavior for young women -- one that they're bound to miss at some point, because, just like the rest of us humans, young women sometimes choose short-term pleasure over the abstract possibility of risk. And when a guy rapes a young woman while she's violating the Rules of Safety -- let's say she's at a party and dancing and she's flirting -- what follows are questions about her behavior, how much she'd been drinking, how she might have led him on
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=combating_the_campus_rape_crisis
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 10:49 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Why hasn't it worked? Perhaps it's because making rape prevention the responsibility of young women teaches students that guys can't be expected to be responsible for their own actions. Not surprisingly, that results in student bodies eager to let rapists off the hook and campus policies (like the one recently implemented at Tufts that forces victims into "mediation" with their rapists) that treat rape as an unfortunate disagreement instead of like the violent crime it is. Make no mistake about the danger of these equanimous attitudes -- in his 2002 landmark study of 1,882 male college students in the Boston area, Dr. David Lisak demonstrated that most campus rapes are perpetrated not by well-meaning boys confused about consent but by repeat-offender sociopaths who know exactly what they're doing. Treating rape like an unfortunate but understandable miscommunication doesn’t just deny victims justice and downplay the traumatic nature of the experience -- it allows rapists to remain free to rape again and again.

Meanwhile, we set an impossibly high bar of behavior for young women -- one that they're bound to miss at some point, because, just like the rest of us humans, young women sometimes choose short-term pleasure over the abstract possibility of risk. And when a guy rapes a young woman while she's violating the Rules of Safety -- let's say she's at a party and dancing and she's flirting -- what follows are questions about her behavior, how much she'd been drinking, how she might have led him on
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=combating_the_campus_rape_crisis


I agree with that entire quote. It does support what I have been saying.

I fail to see any opposing argument in that quote--in fact nothing said in that entire quote supports your views. Quite the opposite.

They describe campus policies that are too eager to get rapists off the hook and treat rape as an "unfortunate disagreement" rather than the violent crime it is.. And they consider this a dangerous attitude and cite Dr. Lisak's work to back up that contention.

The author of the quote doesn't want to get rapists off the hook--they don't want them free to rape again.

They want young men to be held responsible for their actions. They don't want rape prevention programs to focus only on the responsibilities of women. Rape prevention programs have to teach male college students the realities of rape and rape laws--such as not taking advantage of the female if she's very drunk because that is not an excuse for rape or an excuse to rape--and the necessity for males to have clear, freely willing consent before sex takes place. They want men to be responsible if they see a female being sexually abused by someone else and they want them educated in how to intervene. They want men to be part of rape prevention. They want campus rape prevention programs to focus responsbility on potential perpetrators and not on potential victims.

You have proposed "mediation"-- but the quote you posted sees that as a dangerous idea and it does not support it.

Dr. Lisak's work completely shoots down your notions of "confused consent"--he sees campus rapists as "repeat-offender sociopaths who know exactly what they're doing"-- which is why mediation, and attempts to treat rape as a "miscommunication" deny the victim justice, minimize the trauma of rape, and allow the rapist to repeat his crime.

And they are saying that blaming the victim is wrong...that the men must take responsibility for their behavior.

You think this supports your views? Rolling Eyes Well, not unless you've started to suddenly agree with me. Laughing

You keep posting articles which you think support your positions but which, in fact, often repudiate your conclusions and views. I don't know why you have such difficulty correctly understanding the material you choose to post, but you do.

I don't mind. I thank you for posting something that completely supports what I have been saying.Smile


hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 11:31 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I fail to see any opposing argument in that quote--in fact nothing said in that entire quote supports your views. Quite the opposite.

the person speaking does not support my views, he supports yours (as I said before), however he/she talks about how there is an organized opposition to your view, which is me and the people who believe as I do. We are the people who are for instance saying that females have a responsibility, are responsible for their behaviours, and when they end up in confused consent situations that they,as well as the people that you would label rapists, need to be administered to. I would do that in the public health system, not the legal system.

Quote:
Dr. Lisak's work completely shoots down your notions of "confused consent"--
One study does not shoot down anything...there are many other studies, some of which have been noted in this thread, that show that sexual assault allegations tend to come from young drunk women, who very often do not remember the events clearly, and who very often do not think that they have been raped. We also know that even in non drinking/drug situations that we get a lot of guys who think she wanted it (ie think that they have gotten consent) based upon her doing or saying XYZ, and where the girl says "ya, I said or did that but I did not want sex, but I felt powerless and did not try to stop him".

Quote:
You keep posting articles which you think support your positions but which, in fact, often repudiate your conclusions and views. I don't know why you have such difficulty correctly understanding the material you choose to post, but you do
. I suppose in theory that you could be confused, but more likely you are not as stupid as you are pretending to be..I said from the get go that this person agreed with you, my purpose in posting it was to show that I am not some lone crazy, their are a lot of people like me, and at some places like Tuft's we have had some success in challenging the rape feminist agenda. I look forward to more success in the future, as the dishonesty in your argument becomes clear to many, as the damage that your agenda causes to the male/female relationship as well as to the citizen/government relationship also becomes clear....and as it becomes clear that both women and men are damaged by constantly and continually looking at every interaction between men and women through your abuser/victim glasses. You see what you want to see, and you should be ashamed of yourself for wanting to think so poorly of both men and of women. You demean men by assuming that they want to victimize women, and you demean women by assuming that they dont know how to handle men, and that they could not possibly take care of themselves without your help, and without you bringing along the police state to "help" them.



hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 11:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I'm from the government, and I am here to help
Shocked

I think that we have about reached our limit for government "help"TYVM
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 12:25 am
@hawkeye10,
Sorry, Hawkeye, that article is a condemnation of the approach taken by Tufts--with good reason. In fact, the entire article (and I read the whole article, not just the portion you posted) is blasting college rape prevention programs as being ineffective, partly because they do not focus on the potential rapists and they place too much responsibility on the female. The authors of that article clearly want rape treated and handled on campus as a violent crime, and they do not want to see rapists excused or free to continue their sexual assaults. Colleges try to protect their reputations by minimizing crimes, like rape, committed by their students, and it is widely acknowledged that they fail to handle these situations well.

Dr. Lisak is probably the most highly regarded researcher on the subject of campus rapes and the characteristics of college rapists. I trust his conclusions that these rapists are repeat-offender calculating sociopaths who know exactly what they are doing. That's why drunken women are so appealing to them--they know people are unlikely to believe their claims of rape, so they're the perfect targets for rape.

I have no agenda. That's what you can't deal with. That's why you have to drag out your "rape feminist" strawman to argue against. You're not arguing with me--you're arguing with the "rape feminists". But no one in this thread is presenting the "rape feminist" viewpoint, which is a political agenda, so you're just talking to yourself.

People who simply want the current rape laws enforced are not "rape feminists". They are men and women who abhor the crime of rape and want rapists held accountable for their actions. Rape is non consensual sexual intercourse--plain and simple. Whether that is the rape of a 9 year old girl, an 89 year old woman, or a college freshman, rape is rape. Non consensual sex is rape. "Confused consent" is BS. Either you have consent or you don't. If you don't have it, it is rape.



hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 12:37 am
@firefly,
Quote:

Sorry, Hawkeye, that article is a condemnation of the approach taken by Tufts
Ya, I have said that now three times....do you finally understand that I understand that I posted a quote from someone who agrees with you?? Do you have some medication that you might have forgotten to take lately?
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 12:56 am
Quote:
Preventing sexual violence is apparently women's work
Published Thursday November 11th, 2010

Chances are, if you're a woman, you've been given the rundown of ways to avoid being sexually assaulted: don't walk alone at night, watch your drink, walk to your car with your keys out and ready to jab, avoid bad neighbourhoods, and so on.

This "risk reduction" approach to preventing sexual violence is everywhere, so we rarely wonder whether it is effective - or question the message it sends.

Women should not abandon exercising caution and there is fantastic prevention work being done by activists and outreach centres.

But we need to question the message behind the common public discourse that surrounds sexual assault, the information we get in e-mail forwards passed around by women, and the warnings that are given to young women moving onto a university campus. Information that says: strangers are the dangerous people who will attack you and your safety depends on you taking these steps.

Women will follow all these "rules" and some will still be raped, by strangers or by men they know.

And women do follow these rules. Checking the backseat of our cars, figuring out the best-lit route home, and walking with our thumbs on the panic button of our remote car keys are habits that are second nature for women. These routine precautions and avoidance behaviours are so ingrained in women, in fact, they can affect our freedom of movement and, therefore, our quality of life.

Men and women between the ages of 25-54, living in Canadian cities, perceive about the same level of crime in their cities, but women are seven times more likely to adopt behaviours that limit their day-to-day activities in order to avoid victimization, according to the 2004 General Social Survey by Statistics Canada.

Reducing your risk has a limited effectiveness, and places a very real burden on women. It also invites people to blame women when a sexual assault does occur.

When society views rape-prevention as a woman's responsibility, it means that when an assault takes place, many people ask what the victim did to "get" raped.

In a recent poll in the U.K., Wake Up to Rape, more than half of both male and female respondents, age 18-50, said there were some circumstances in which a victim must accept responsibility for her rape.

This approach also leads to the victim blaming herself for the assault. The public face of sexual assault is stranger-rape, which may also lead victims of acquaintance or intimate partner rape to question if what happened to them "counts" as sexual assault since their attack wasn't at the hands of a stranger.

This self-blaming line of thinking could be part of the reason that a mere one in 10 sexual assaults are actually reported to police in Canada.

Stranger rape does occur, but it is not a common type of sexual assault.

According to the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, the victim knew the perpetrator in 82 per cent of the 2007 police-reported cases of sexual assault in which the relationship between victim and perpetrator could be established.

Imagine a commercial about impaired driving that, instead of asking people not to drink and drive, advises sober people to stay off the roads to avoid being hit. Can you imagine a public service announcement like that?

Of course not, because we're not afraid to directly address what causes drunk driving, which is, of course, drunk drivers. So why are we afraid to directly address what causes sexual assault?

Women doing whatever normal activity they happen to be doing when they are attacked don't cause rape. Rapists do.

When we talk about what potential-victims can do to prevent being assaulted, we are treating sexual assault like a naturally occurring event, one that might be avoided but that we can't hope to eradicate.

Why do we prefer to teach women to live in fear instead of teaching men not to rape?

There are examples of real prevention campaigns, aimed at men, though they are rare. Men Can Stop Rape's public awareness campaign is organized around the theme line, "My Strength is Not for Hurting," Other campaigns are aimed at men as allies "Being a friend means stopping him before he does something stupid." One, evidently from the United States, states "Imagine telling your parents you need an extra $12,000 this semester" then detailing what will happen if he forces a woman to have sex: "You'll have to get a lawyer. You'll have to go to court. You'll have to tell your parents."

The city of Dallas recently managed to grasp this concept. A few weeks ago at a municipal public safety meeting, Dallas' Police Chief responded to the city's 25 per cent increase in reported rapes by suggesting communicating to women that they should watch how much they drink and have their friends keep a watchful eye.

When women's response to the Chief's was felt, he said he was trying to explain that alcohol was a factor in many rapes and did not intend to suggest that victims' behaviour caused their attacks. The police department then created a poster that read: "Don't be a Rapist. If she says stop and you don't, that's rape."

Dallas stuck with the personal responsibility theme, but applied it to potential rapists instead of potential victims.

This is the kind of public discourse we need. Direct, unflinching, and placing responsibility where it should be: those who commit rape.

http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/opinion/article/1303122

BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 03:03 am
@firefly,
Firefly you and other feminists are on the one hand doing your very over best to frighten women by overstating the problem by a few thousands percents or so concerning the likelihood of sexual assault then you are complaining that women that you had frighten are limiting their behaviors and their lives!!!!!!

If I was a woman and had buy into your nonsense that I have a one in four chance of being rape in college for example I would not attend college or try to find one of the few non-coed colleges and limit my education to whatever courses they offer.

To sum up you and your like minded feminists are the one who are limiting the freedom of women at least to the point that they buy into your claims of a rape crisis at the same time that reported forcible sexual assaults are at a thirty year low!

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 05:25 am
@firefly,
Quote:
In a recent poll in the U.K., Wake Up to Rape, more than half of both male and female respondents, age 18-50, said there were some circumstances in which a victim must accept responsibility for her rape.

Absolutely it often is, because confused consent accounts for a huge chunk of what is currently called rape
Quote:

According to the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, the victim knew the perpetrator in 82 per cent of the 2007 police-reported cases of sexual assault in which the relationship between victim and perpetrator could be established
.Absolutely it often is a known person who is reported for sexual assault, because confused consent accounts for a huge chunk of what is currently called rape.
Quote:
Reducing your risk has a limited effectiveness, and places a very real burden on women.

Glory Be! WHat were we thinking putting a burden on women...Must. Stop. That. *sarcasm*

Quote:
Dallas stuck with the personal responsibility theme, but applied it to potential rapists instead of potential victims.
Glory Be! WHat were we thinking putting a burden on women...Must. Stop. That. *sarcasm
BillRM
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 08:36 am
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye it is a great burden not to get so drunk you do not know where you are or who you are with it would seem,

Strange that somehow I and others males I had known did not made it a habit to go to drunken parties during our college years and at least I never got near a state of total intoxication that others would need to assume any responsibility for my welfare.

Poor women according to Firefly have both a right and a need to get into that state and therefore all males around them have a duty to act as their guardians.

We surely can not blame the poor things<young women> for becoming totally drunk and we need to drunk proof the world for them.


0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 09:08 am
I used to drink. I always got an erection no matter how drunk I got. Was I raped if the girl was more sober than me ? Quite a common occurance, in my experience......most women I met didnt get drunk, just a little tipsy. Tell me the truth...was I raped ?
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 09:24 am
@firefly,
I will be so happy when Elizabeth and her family can put this part of what happened behind them. I am sure she will always have it with her in one way or another, but getting justice in the courts goes a long way in the healing process.

Quote:
Crime & Courts
Trial resumes for man charged in Smart abduction

Published November 29, 2010
Associated Press

SALT LAKE CITY – Defense attorneys for the man accused of abducting Elizabeth Smart are not disputing the facts in the case, but they're trying to show at Brian David Mitchell's trial that he's mentally ill and can't be held responsible.

Smart was 14 when she was abducted from her home at knifepoint on June 5, 2002. She was recovered nine months later — on March 12, 2003 — disguised in wig and sunglasses and walking a suburban Salt Lake City street with Mitchell.

Now 23, Smart has testified during Mitchell's ongoing trial that she was forced to enter a polygamous marriage with Mitchell, endured near daily rapes, was forced to use drugs and alcohol, and was taken to California against her will about four months.

If convicted, the 57-year-old former street preacher could spend the rest of his life in prison.

After a break for the Thanksgiving holiday, the federal trial was resuming Monday for Mitchell, charged in U.S. District Court with the kidnapping and unlawful transportation of a minor across state lines for the purposes of illegal sexual activity.

As the trial moves into its fourth week, the defense is expected to call on psychiatric evaluators to testify about Mitchell's competency.

Included on the list of defense witnesses is Dr. Richart DeMier, a forensic psychologist from a federal prison facility who was court-ordered to evaluate Mitchell in 2009, DeMier diagnosed Mitchell as paranoid schizophrenic and said he was not competent to stand trial.

DeMier's findings contradict those of Dr. Michael Welner, New York City forensic psychologist hired by prosecutors to conduct his own evaluation. Welner diagnosed Mitchell with an anti-social personality disorder, psychopathy, alcohol abuse and said he is "malingering" — faking or exaggerating an illness to avoid prosecution.

Both evaluators were also on the stand during a 10-day competency hearing held in 2009.

DeMier said then he had based his conclusion on Mitchell's belief that "he is divinely ordained to fulfill a special role at the end of the world, putting himself on par with Jesus or God."

In March, U.S. District Judge Dale Kimball ruled Mitchell competent for trial.

Also expected on the witness stand is Utah psychologist Dr. Stephen Golding who found Mitchell incompetent for trial in a parallel state case. Golding has said Mitchell has "referential thinking" and ascribes special meaning to ordinary experiences.

During the 2009 competency hearing, Golding testified that religious-based delusions left Mitchell believing he was being pressured or commanded to do certain things. The directives came through emotionally distressing revelations, Golding said.

"Mr. Mitchell's ego, his self, was constantly warring with what he thought he needed to do," Golding explained last year. "Over time it developed into a pretty frank delusional disorder."

Smart has testifed that she never believed Mitchell's religious beliefs were sincere and that he used religion to manipulate others. That included Smart and Wanda Eileen Barzee, Mitchell's now-estragned wife, who pleaded guilty to federal charges in the case last year after more than year of court-ordered treatment with anti-psychotic medications.

Last week, a tearful 65-year-old Barzee, who is serving a 15-year prison term, testified that she had once believed that her husband was being directed by God. In hindsight, Barzee said, she sees it was a ruse.

"He was a great deceiver," she said.

firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 10:03 am
It really makes one wonder why there is any male protest in this thread about only having fully consensual sex?

Are these men so undesirable they can only have sex when they force it on unwilling partners?

Are they so lacking in self esteem, and so filled with fears of rejection, that they need a barely conscious partner who can offer only weak or no resistance?

Imagine protesting laws that say only that sexual intercourse must take place with the "freely willing agreement" of the partner.

A 7 year old can understand he must have permission to do certain things--like take cookies from a cookie jar--and he knows that permission means, "Yes, you can". He knows that "No" doesn't mean "Yes" and "Maybe" doesn't mean "Yes".

But we have grown men in this thread claiming that they don't understand what "consent" means, or trying to excuse rape as an instance of "confused consent". What's confusing about "Yes"? What's confusing about "No"?

If these men drive through a Stop sign, do they argue with the cop who pulls them over, "I wasn't sure it really meant 'Stop'?" Laughing

Rape is non consensual sexual intercourse. It's very simple.

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 10:09 am
@Arella Mae,
I agree, Arella Mae. This trial has been a long time coming. Hopefully, with the legal process and the public ordeal drawing to an end, Elizabeth and her family will be able to put this part of a horrible, horrible experience behind them.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 10:32 am
At the very least, elderly and disabled female residents of nursing homes must be adequately protected from sexual assaults--assaults by employees and assaults by other residents. If a nursing home cannot provide adequate security and staffing to assure the safety of female residents from sexual assaults and rapes, they are being negligent and they should be held accountable.

No one's mother, or grandmother, or great grandmother should have to end her life this way--with the trauma and horror of being raped in her nursing home bed. This rape should have been prevented. The nursing home should be held accountable. This lawsuit is one way of bringing the problem of sexual assaults and rapes in nursing homes to public attention.
Quote:

Rape victim's family sues nursing home
By Bruce Vielmetti of the Journal Sentinel
Nov. 26, 2010

The family of a 90-year-old woman who died after she was sexually assaulted by another resident at Franciscan Villa has sued the South Milwaukee nursing home for wrongful death.

The lawsuit, filed Wednesday in Milwaukee County Circuit Court, claims that administrators and staff at the home at 3601 S. Chicago Ave. were negligent because they failed to take action earlier against the perpetrator despite prior sexual outbursts against residents and staff.

According to the complaint and state records, a 90-year-old male resident was caught trying to sexually assault a different woman in a dining room on Jan. 25, 2009. He was pulled away and led to his room by a manager, who then left him unattended while she went to get medication to stop his sexual urges. He was found shortly thereafter in another female resident's room with his pants down.

Staff responded but again left him alone in the hallway, the suit contends, and he next found the victim alone in her room and raped her. A visitor to another resident heard the woman's distress and went to her room, where he found the man assaulting the victim. She stopped eating from the shock and trauma of the attack and died 18 days later.

A state Department of Health Services review later found that the initial assault on Jan. 25 had never been documented, and that the Franciscan Villa administrator defended his staff's actions that day.

The lawsuit contends the administrator, James Weibeler, also refused to apologize to the family of the 90-year-old victim, who had resided at the facility for 49 months.

Jeffrey Pitman, the lawyer representing the victim's estate, said the perpetrator, who suffered from dementia, was later committed in a different facility. He was never charged criminally for any of the sexual assaults.

The lawsuit seeks unspecified compensatory and punitive damages.

Asked for comment, Weibeler released a statement Wednesday that said Franciscan Villa was and is a safe facility with quality care and has fully cooperated with local and state authorities.

"In order to respect the rights of the victim, Franciscan Villa will not publicly comment on the factual allegations contained in the Complaint. We deeply regret this incident and our hearts go out to the family of this resident."
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/110893629.html

Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2010 10:48 am
@Ionus,
Did you consent, Dufus?
 

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