25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 02:20 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
Where were her friends


Quote:
CNN reports that the victim "had come alone to the Richmond High School homecoming dance, gorgeous in a sparkling purple dress and faux diamond baubles. The DJ played salsa, meringue, rap. When the teenager disappeared, her friends thought she had gone home early."

http://www.examiner.com/sf-in-san-francisco/friend-of-richmond-california-gang-rape-victim-speaks-out-video

sounds to me like she ditched her friends to go party with the guys outside. I further think that this story that we got that she was going to meet her father for a ride home is a cover-up. She might have gone to the area where he was planning to pick her up hours later, but when she walked out that door, alone, she was purposefully headed to hook up with the guys. I wonder what she thought was going to happen, or what she hoped would happen, but we will never know.

It is kinda funny how the story gets twisted to promote some fantasy image of the pure female who is attacked by the males. This 16 year old very well may have ended up raped, but the real story I bet is far removed from the one being spun, just as we saw in the Phoebe Prince case.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 03:05 am
this would have been a big step towards the police state

Quote:
All victims of violent crimes deserve our help. As a society, what kind of message are we sending when we say it is okay to stand by and not make a call when someone is being brutally victimized over and over again?

On October 24th, 2009 a young woman, only 16 tender years of age, left her high school homecoming dance in Richmond California to get a ride from her father when she joined some young men and began drinking with them. They soon began their assault. Several of the men beat her, robbed her, and repeatedly raped her while people looked on.

Police think there were up to 10 attackers and anywhere from 15 to 20 people stopping to watch. Authorities said witnesses took photos, laughed and some joined in as the girl was repeatedly assaulted. People came and went and no one called the police. The assault lasted for over 2 hours.

Instead of snapping photos with their cell phones, witnesses should have been using them to call for help. AB 984, will appropriately expand an existing investigatory tool, and will hold people accountable for allowing this and similar terrible attacks to go uninterrupted.

Under current California law, had the victim of this rape been under 14 years of age, observers who failed to report could have been charged with a misdemeanor offense punishable by a fine up to $1,500, imprisonment for up to 6 months, or both. The victim in this case was 16, which means that the witnesses who did nothing can't be held accountable.

There is a problem with a law when witnesses to a crime of rape or murder are not held accountable for something as simple as using a telephone to call the police.

My bill, The Witness Responsibility Act (AB 984), eliminates the arbitrary requirement that a victim be under 14 years of age. All victims of violent crime deserve our help.

It is appalling that this young girl in Richmond was left to suffer instead of being saved from hours of torment and pain. As a former Deputy District Attorney, I know her healing will take years and the loving support of friends and family. Her faith and trust in humanity may never be the same.

Victim's rights groups and law enforcement understand why this simple change in California law is so important.

Harriet Salarno, Chair of Crime Victims United of California said:

AB 984 removes a senseless provision that limits the reporting requirement by individuals witnessing violent crimes against victims to only those victims under the age of 14. In the case of the Richmond rape, had any one of the witnesses called the police, the two hour attack could have been halted much sooner. Victims of violent crime should be able to expect that regardless of one's age, witnesses to their crimes will report the atrocities to law enforcement and provide the relevant information to assist in apprehending the victim's attacker(s).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pedro-nava/would-you-have-called_b_437606.html

Thankfully it failed in the Ca Senate, and I dont know if SCOTUS has ruled on these kinds of law, though clearly they violate the right to remain silent. I also dont see how under our Constitution the state can criminalize the refusal to become an accomplice to the enforcement of the laws of the state, as I was under the impression that we had an obligation to resist unjust laws....I know I heard MLK say so...


Anyway, I have serious problem with a law the requires any "witness" to report, as this could be a neighbor who hears a woman screaming as she is getting beaten, and so he being a good citizen feels that since a marital rape might be taking place he has to follow the law and call 911, then they need to come out looking through the house for evidence of a crime, asking all kinds of questions, and if they decide maybe a little domestic violence is going on, or if the consent seems a little forced....then they by law have to arrests somebody....and the DA works under a no drop policy so if he thinks he can make a case for rape or domestic violence he has to send it to court..

Never-mind that these laws get in the way of some serious fun, there is no way in hell a competent Supreme Court working under our Constitution approves these Stasi practices.....right?
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 04:14 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
How is making the AOC more in line with when humans start to have sex "pushing them into the deep end"? I happen to think that when the hormones start popping and the body is ready around the twelfth birthday that making them wait till 17 or so to give them the keys to their body is cruel, and counter productive.


Hawkeye how cruel is it to anyone who is born having a 12 years olds child as a mother?

How cruel is it be parents that are being face with not only raising thier child but the offspring of thier child?

In any modern society an early teen is not able to raised or support a child by herself so I am all for trying to keep the keys lock up for this group.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 08:23 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
sounds to me like she ditched her friends to go party with the guys outside.
These would be the friends that gave her the drink. That made no effort to ensure her safety. That the first thing they knew was hours later...bullshit. Someone knew what she was doing and turned a blind eye rather than help her.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 08:25 am
@BillRM,
Children are getting pregnant from having sex with other children. Locking up the keys as you put it is not working.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 08:29 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
How is making the AOC more in line with when humans start to have sex "pushing them into the deep end"?
Because there are always a certain number of people ahead and others behind the curve. I know some 14 yr olds who have more of an idea of the spritual nature of love and sex than 30 yr olds who **** everything with a pulse. The long term cost of promiscuity is the same as the long term effect of rape. Why dont we lock women up for doing long term damage to themselves ? Oh..right...we are going after men, but not the ones that rape, only the ones that rape women.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 08:31 am
@mysteryman,
Quote:
but doesnt the accused have that same right.
Of course not ! The press have always reported without bias, editorialising, or error. If it is reported, the man..oops ....accused .....must be guilty. Even if he isnt, he must be....otherwise they wouldnt have reported it. Would you trust your kids with him ?
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 11:11 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
I'll say it again....one study found 60% of CONVICTIONS were where the female had lied


That is so blatantly untrue it is downright absurd.

BillRM has been chanting the false accusation mantra throughout this thread, and even he could dig up only ONE CONVICTION based solely on a false accusation by the victim.

Post the study to support your assertion, otherwise it is clear you are just fabricating things.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 11:18 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Anyway, I have serious problem with a law the requires any "witness" to report, as this could be a neighbor who hears a woman screaming as she is getting beaten, and so he being a good citizen feels that since a marital rape might be taking place he has to follow the law and call 911...Never-mind that these laws get in the way of some serious fun


What kind of serious fun? Beating your wife? Raping someone?

You seem to have no basic human decency.

You can resist all the unjust laws you want, but you have to be willing to pay the price, and face the punishment, for doing that.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 12:21 pm
The cases of incest/rape are often heartbreaking and shocking--especially this one. This poor woman, from a rural area in Argentina, was subjected to a reign of terror by her father that went on for 30 years. He began raping her when she was 13. A judge in Santa Fe described the case as "even worse" than the crimes of Austria's Josef Fritzl in 2008, for the "remarkable amount of violence and the length of time it lasted" .
Fritzl was sentenced to life in 2009 for having kept his daughter imprisoned for 24 years, fathering seven children with her and killing one of them.

Gomez, who denies the charges against him, is being held in prison accused of aggravated sexual abuse with a relative.

Quote:
World news: Daughter claims rapist dad fathered her ten children
27 November 2010

An Argentine woman has accused her father of sexually abusing her for 30 years and having 10 children with her, including one who killed himself after learning the truth about his "grandfather".

Elvira Gomez, 43, said she did not report the alleged abuse until her father Armando Gomez, 62, was recently arrested for robbery.

"I felt that I was a worse than a prisoner for 30 years because I couldn't even talk with anybody. He raped me, beat me for any reason, didn't let me approach other people and always had a loaded gun. He told me, 'I'm going to go to prison, but I'm going to kill you first'," Ms Gomez said according to the newspaper Clarin.

DNA tests reported this week confirmed that nine of her 10 children were with her father. Tests could not be carried out on her remaining son because he is dead.

Ms Gomez, from the village of Nicanor Molinos in Santa Fe, said she did not have the courage to report the abuse until now because "since I was a girl he beat me with whatever he had in his hand: a rod or a machete which cut me all over. I spent days in bed".

Her mother died when she was 20 months old, she said.
http://news.scotsman.com/news/World-news-Daughter-claims-rapist.6641998.jp


While he is behind bars, Ms Gomez said: "I can now walk the streets without fear.

"I feel a great relief even though I seldom leave my house because I feel ashamed."

One can only hope that there are some resources available to help this woman, and her children, deal with what they have been through and the impending trial of Mr Gomez that they will have to face in the public eye.


0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 07:11 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Post the study to support your assertion
I did. And you ignored it. Typical repsonse from a man with a mission....ignore difficulties and focus on the end.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 11:02 am
@Ionus,
You never posted any such study--because it does not exist.

If 60% of rape convictions were based solely on deliberate false accusations by a victim, then at least 60% of rape convictions would be overturned after trial and the previously convicted person would be released. The conviction would not be allowed to stand once it became apparent it was based on perjury (false accusation) by the complainant. For that to happen, the "victim" would have to admit she lied at trial, or new evidence would have to emerge after trial clearly indicating she lied. If either of those things does not happen, you cannot assume that the conviction was based solely on the false accusation of the victim, or that her testimony that a rape occurred was false.

60% of rape convictions are not overturned for any reason.

Most rape convictions involve more evidence than just the victim's word for what happened. In exclusive he said/she said situations, with no other evidence, juries tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the defendant and there is no conviction. That's why those cases rarely even go to trial.
BillRM
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 03:02 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Most rape convictions involve more evidence than just the victim's word for what happened. In exclusive he said/she said situations, with no other evidence, juries tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the defendant and there is no conviction. That's why those cases rarely even go to trial.


That is why so many men had been released on new DNA evidence after having been convicted by error in IDing by the victim? In other word on her word alone.

Men are in fact convicted on the word of a woman alone of all the time.

That is also why parents had ended up convicted on charges of sexual abused dating back decades on the words of the 'victim' alone only later to have their convictions overturn due to the implanting of false memories as a result of so call mental health counseling?

When there are only two people in a bedroom/motel room anyone convicted is in fact convicted on the word of the woman alone at least for the most part.

And finally you do not need to be convicted to have your life ruin and you name destroy as at the same time the accuser is offer special protection from that very risk with her name hidden from the public. His picture is however is very likely to be on the front page of the local newspaper.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 03:44 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
That is why so many men had been released on new DNA evidence after having been convicted by error in IDing by the victim? In other word on her word alone.

No, those men were not convicted on the basis of a deliberate lie by the victim--which is what Ionus alleged. For another thing, all of those DNA cases you cite that led to reversals involved actual rapes. An honest mistake in identification is not a deliberate lie, and, in most of those cases, there was police or D.A. misconduct. So these cases have absolutely nothing to do with women who deliberately lie about being raped.

Juries almost never convict on the word of the woman alone without some additional evidence. That's why it's so easy for rapists to get away with raping someone.

How many men lie and say the sex was consensual when it was rape?





firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 03:51 pm
Rape is a very real crime. It affects females of all ages. At least this man won't be able to claim it was "consensual".
Quote:
Man arrested, charged with child rape
Sunday, 28 Nov 2010
Sy Becker

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (WWLP) - A vile crime committed against a 9-year-old girl in Springfield early Sunday morning. The little girl was allegedly raped by her grandmother's boyfriend.

22News learned of the crime from Springfield Police Lt. Robert Moynihan. The 9-year-old girl was allegedly attacked in a house in Springfield's Forest Park neighborhood.

Forty-five-year old Eliu Ramos has been charged with rape of a child by force.

Lt. Moynihan.told 22News, they all lived there, the victim, the grandmother and her boyfriend whose been accused of raping the little girl.

Springfield police officers arrested Ramos at a home on Alden Street.

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/man-arrested-charged-with-child-rape
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 04:13 pm
Unlike the people who watched the gang rape of the 16 year old on the grounds of her high school, and did nothing to try to stop it, this man intervened and stopped an attempted rape in New Zealand. He does deserve praise.
Quote:
Man who stopped sex attack praised
Monday Nov 29, 2010

Christchurch police have praised a man who intervened during an alleged rape over the weekend.

A 41-year-old man will appear in Christchurch District Court today charged with rape, unlawful sexual connection, theft and injury with intent to injure following an attack on a 20-year-old woman in the central city about midnight Saturday.

The woman was walking on Hereford Street when she was approached by a man, pushed into a front yard and sexually assaulted.

The house's occupant, who wanted to be identified only as Phill, heard screaming and went out to investigate.

"He was on top of her and she was struggling, with arms flailing and screaming 'help me, help me'," he told The Press.

"I grabbed him and pulled him towards me and looked him right in the eye and I could see the sweat on his brow and he was wondering what I was going to do next.

"I pushed him onto the street and pushed him away and said 'f... off'."

The man ran off and Phil flagged down a passing police car.

The attacker was eventually found crouching in a nearby yard.

Detective Sergeant Leairne Dow said Phill stopped a "horrific" attack.

"He was brilliant. Without his help, things could have progressed and got a lot worse," she said.

"She (the woman) is not doing too bad considering the ordeal she has been through. She is very lucky."

- NZPA
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10690785

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 04:58 pm
Another bystander who heard a woman's screams and took action--he helped to apprehend this rapist. He too deserves praise for his actions.
Quote:
City man charged in early morning rape
By TIM BUCKLAND
New Hampshire Union Leader
Saturday, Nov. 27, 2010

MANCHESTER – A local man was arrested Saturday on charges he raped a woman in a parking lot near the Bridge Street bridge.

Police Sgt. Kristen Taylor said Danny Paulino, 22, stalked the 29-year-old woman as she crossed the bridge while walking to work at 5:20 a.m. Saturday. He caught up to her and dragged her to a parking lot behind a large commercial building at 195 McGregor St.

The victim screamed and fought with Paulino during the assault, Taylor said. She suffered non-life threatening injuries, the sergeant said.

"She was walking in a well-lit area. She fought to the best of her abilities and shouted for help. In this case, she did everything we would ask people to do" if they are assaulted, Taylor said.

Paulino did not know the victim and attacked her randomly, Taylor said.

"He observed her walking and just took the opportunity," she said.

A man, who Taylor declined to identify, heard the woman screaming and saw Paulino on top of her. The passerby shouted at Paulino, chased the alleged assailant when he ran away and called 911. Police found Paulino walking on Allard Street, Taylor said.

Paulino was charged with aggravated felonious sexual assault and was being held Saturday in Hillsborough County Jail. He will be arraigned Monday in Manchester District Court.

Taylor said Saturday night that an investigation of Paulino's criminal record turned up only minor offenses, including a traffic violation and a charge of resisting arrest.

"Nothing of this nature," she said.

She said police are continuing to investigate his past, however.
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=City+man+charged+in+early+morning+rape&articleId=ff032776-e0db-4222-9c08-f224fbc1eab3

0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 05:12 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You never posted any such study
You go back and find it. I tire of proving the earth is not flat to someone who delays and stalls.

Motivations Given by Women Who Acknowledged They had Made False Accusations of Rape
Spite or Revenge 20%
Guilt or Shame 20%
Possible Pregnancy 13%
Conceal an Affair 12%
Test Husband's Love 9%
Avoid Responsibility 4%
Extortion 4%
Possible VD 3%
Other 6%
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 05:15 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Juries almost never convict on the word of the woman alone without some additional evidence. That's why it's so easy for rapists to get away with raping someone.


BULLSHIT AND I MEAN BULLSHIT as any numbers of such cases had been posted here already.

Was you born with the ability to be such a big liar or did you need to work on it?

Second, what the hell does it matter if it was an honest error of IDings or an out right lie juries do convict on the word of a woman only everyday in this country.

Third, a man does not need to be convicted of such a crime to have his future ruin.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Nov, 2010 06:37 pm
Some acquaintance rapes do involve considerable force and even weapons. This rapist knew his victim. He also appears to have threatened her to dissuade her from testifying against him--since that was one of the charges against him--and that may have been the reason the prosecutor could't locate her to approve the plea deal. At least the victim was spared the trauma of going through a trial and this rapist will be behind bars for the next 20 years.
Quote:

No-contest plea in rape case
By KATY SWEENY - Staff Writer
11/24/2010

OROVILLE — A 38-year-old man rarely lifted his eyes to the judge as he agreed to serve 24 years in prison and pleaded no contest to a rape behind the Oroville Rite Aid.

Mark Allen Jacques of Oroville told Butte County Superior Court Judge Robert Glusman he understood his rights and that he would likely serve 85 percent of his sentence, about 20 years, rather than a standard 50 percent.

Jacques then pleaded no contest to three of the four charges against him, including sexual penetration by a foreign object with force and violence, forcible rape and dissuading a witness by force or threat.

He also admitted to allegations of kidnapping for sexual purposes and using a deadly weapon for purposes of committing a sexual offense. His defense attorney, Jodea Foster, joined in the plea.

Deputy district attorney Stacy Edwards dismissed a kidnapping charge to resolve the case, she said. Jacques had been facing life in prison.

On Aug. 23, Jacques grabbed the victim, forced her behind Rite Aid off Oro Dam Boulevard in Oroville and raped her. He knew the victim.

In court Wednesday, Glusman told Jacques his plea is considered a serious felony and if he commits another felony when released, his sentence for the new crime could be doubled.

The judge accepted the plea and convicted Jacques of the charges.

"I'm sure the alleged victim, now victim, appreciates that very much," Glusman said.

Edwards said outside court the prosecution offered the plea bargain after considering the possibility of retraumatizing the victim during trial and the uncertainty of trial results. As to Jacques serving about 20 years in prison versus life, Edwards said, "We felt that was a just result."

Prosecution did not approve the plea bargain with the victim because Edwards said they have been unable to locate her.

Jacques will return to court Dec. 29. He remains at the Butte County Jail on a no-bail hold.
http://www.orovillemr.com/rss/ci_16706687?source=rss
 

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