25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 07:10 pm
Awww...Hawkeye and BillRM are doing their routine again. Those two boys are so cute together.
http://www.historiann.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/he-man.jpg
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 07:22 pm
A rapist's victims can also sue in civil court, and that's just what's going on in the U.K. in the case of that police officer just found guilty of rapes...
Quote:
Up to 31 women sue UK police force over rapist officer
From Wikinews,
Friday, November 26, 2010

Up to 31 women are suing Northumbria Police—which covers northeast England—over abuse they claim to have received from Police Constable Stephen Mitchell. Mitchell was this week convicted of two rapes, three indecent assaults, and six counts of misconduct in a public office against seven separate victims. They were among sixteen, all female, who testified at his five-week trial, which also saw acquittals over three rapes, three indecent assaults, and nine misconduct charges.

One woman, whose complaint against Mitchell triggered the three-year probe that convicted him, says she has decided to sue because he was cleared of raping her. She alleges rape, sexual assault, false imprisonment, and a breach of human rights, claiming the policeman raped her at Pigrim Street's police station in 2006, the culmination of four years using her as a sex slave. Now a mother-of-four and a PhD student, she "do[es] not accept the not guilty verdict. I want justice and I will prove his guilt." It is alleged he tracked her on the police database.

Mitchell claimed at trial the alleged victims were all liars, involved in a joint conspiracy to frame him and driven by a single woman. He described her motivation as "self-preservation" but refused to elaborate on this in open court.

It has since emerged that Mitchell was considered emotionless by other officers during the probe, earning the nickname 'PC Cucumber'. "We are making claims for damages for sexual assault, false imprisonment and breach of human rights," said Lindsey Houghton of lawyers Irwin Mitchell. "Mitchell was in a position of trust and authority. He abused that position, taking advantage of vulnerable young women in the most horrific way... we hope to be able to provide our clients with some comfort as they try to get their lives back." As well as the sixteen in court, fourteen more were willing to give evidence against him.

It does not get any worse than being a police officer with a rape conviction in prison, but he never flinched.

Inquiry leader Detective Chief Inspector Chris Sharman said he had "never seen anything like it in interviews. He showed no emotion whatsoever." Sharman was accused at trial by Mitchell's defence lawyer of offering the rapist a chance to resign in exchange for dropping the case, citing a secret recording between the two. The prosecution disputed this assessment of their conversation. An unnamed colleague who knew Mitchell said "It does not get any worse than being a police officer with a rape conviction in prison, but he never flinched."

Glasgow-born Mitchell's convictions cover 1999 through 2004. He previously served in the Army, as which time he appeared before court in Scotland over sex charges, but was cleared in 1997 before Edinburgh High Court; he lied about this on his police application.

The Mirror reports the total claimed to be in the region of millions of pounds.
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Up_to_31_women_sue_UK_police_force_over_rapist_officer?dpl_id=223588

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 07:30 pm
@Dasein,
Quote:
Men are not to be trusted and have the ability to rape. Women can be trusted and they have the ability to accuse men of rape.
I already figured that you think women are better than men, but thanks for explicitly saying so.

I dont agree, I think that men and women are pretty equal in our abilities to do evil....... but then I might be odd, as I do more than pay lip service to the idea that men and women are equal.....I actually believe it.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 07:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
I was all for the ERA in the 60s and still think that women and men should be consider equals instead of the Firefly position that women are children that need and should be granted special protections and who freedoms of choices should be limits all in the name of protecting them.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 08:11 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
women and men should be consider equals instead of the Firefly position that women are children that need and should be granted special protections and who freedoms of choices should be limits all in the name of protecting them


Yes, it is sometimes said that with out correctives the man/woman relationship naturally tends to go parent/child...but my opinion is that if men and women want to do that this is their own business, but I am not in favor of institutionally standardizing this view. We need to expect that women will act like adults, but if they refuse and get hurt in the process that is their fault...the corrective is for them to change their behavior, not the paternalistic flavored laws that the feminist push. Substituting the state in place of men as the daddy figure is not an improvement.

BillRM
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 08:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Substituting the state in place of men as the daddy figure is not an improvement.


Or for the state to placed a special duty on men to protect the women in their lives from the women own actions and bad judgments.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 08:30 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Or for the state to placed a special duty on men to protect the women in their lives from their own actions and bad judgments.
IE codify into the law permanently the victim status of women and the assumption of the abusive nature of men......ya, that too...
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 10:07 pm
Why would any one think that women might need "special protections"? Perhaps because of cases like this one..All some rapists need is a vulnerable female, and opportunity, whether it's an extremely intoxicated college girl passed out on a bed in a frat house or an 86 year old woman in her bed in a nursing home...Rape laws, however, are not "special protections"--they are the necessary means to punish sexual predators.

The rapist in this case was not a stranger, and this was not a rape requiring extreme force or an extreme show of resistance. It's just the sort of rape that's covered by the rape laws that Hawkeye and BillRM want to do away with--because this wouldn't be a "real rape" in their view--not enough physical violence and physical force to satisfy them that it's a "real rape". Fortunately, saner minds prevail. These are, unfortunately, very real rapes, and the laws that cover these rape situations are in place, and will remain in place, because they are obviously needed.

This young man received youthful offender treatment and a consequently light sentence. I have a feeling that in the U.S. he might have been tried as an adult and would have received much harsher treatment in terms of prison time particularly because of the age of his victim.
Quote:
Menston man,18, guilty of raping woman, 86, in Ilkley care home
Friday 26th November 2010
By Jenny Loweth

A teenage nursing home worker has been locked up for three years for raping an 86-year-old woman.

Kitchen assistant Maxwell Laycock, then 17, was delivering a Christmas Day cup of tea when he violated her, Bradford Crown Court heard.

Laycock, now 18, of Cleasby Road, Menston, pleaded guilty to a rape offence.

He also admitted sexually assaulting a 16-year-old girl, who was working as a kitchen assistant at the nursing home in Ilkley.

The identities of both victims are protected by law.

Judge James Goss QC sentenced Laycock to three years’ detention in a young offender institution.

He branded the rape “vile and shameful,” saying of the elderly victim: “She should not have had to endure the humiliation of your behaviour towards the end of her life.”

Laycock must sign on the sex offenders’ register for an indefinite period.

The judge made a Sexual Offences Prevention Order banning him from paid or voluntary work that would bring him into unsupervised contact with children, elderly people or those with a mental or physical disability.

Prosecutor Richard Gioserano told Bradford Crown Court yesterday that Laycock grabbed and squeezed the girl’s breasts, laughed and walked off.

She could not recall exactly when this was because she did not report it until she found out what Laycock did to his 86-year-old victim.

Mr Gioserano said Laycock took the tea trolley round at 3.30pm on Christmas Day last year. Another staff member saw the trolley standing in a corridor and caught Laycock in the woman’s room.

The next day, the woman told the staff worker what had happened.

She also told her son, who reacted with shock and disbelief.

Laycock’s barrister, Richard Woolfall, said his client was genuinely remorseful.

“He is going to be battling this conviction for the rest of his life, and the stigma attached to it,” he said. Laycock had felt like killing himself afterwards and was ashamed and disgusted.

After the case, Amanda McInnes, of the Crown Prosecution Service West Yorkshire Rape and Serious Sexual Offences Unit said: “It is hard to imagine a greater breach of trust, and the case has understandably caused this lady’s family much anguish. “I hope that today’s sentence goes some way to helping the two victims to recover from their experiences and begin to rebuild their lives.”
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8690082.Man_18__guilty_of_raping_woman__86__in_care_home/
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 10:31 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Why would any one think that women might need "special protections"? Perhaps because of cases like this one..All some rapists need is a vulnerable female, and opportunity, whether it's an extremely intoxicated college girl passed out on a bed in a frat house or an 86 year old woman in her bed in a nursing home...Rape laws, however, are not "special protections"--they are the necessary means to punish sexual predators.

The rapist in this case was not a stranger, and this was not a rape requiring extreme force or an extreme show of resistance. It's just the sort of rape that's covered by the rape laws that Hawkeye and BillRM want to do away with--
A tit squeeze should not be rape..or a big deal....prob a class B misdemeanor . What happened to the old woman we don't know so I am in no position to comment upon the appropriateness of the charge. I would not however make the assumption that the charge was justified, as with all claims of rape now that the term has been depowered by excessive expansion of its definition I would need to hear the particulars first, before thinking that I knew what happened.

BTW- Bill and I are on record that sex with a passed out woman who has not preconsented to sex has not consented, and has been raped.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 11:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
A tit squeeze should not be rape. what happened to the old woman we don't know so I am in no position to comment upon the appropriateness of the charge. I would not however make the assumption that the charge was justified, as with all claims of rape now that the term has been depowered by excessive expansion of its definition I would need to hear the particulars first, before thinking that I knew what happened


A "tit squeeze" is not rape, but it is a sexual assault. We do know what happened to the elderly woman--she reported she was raped and the young man admitted to raping her. He acknowledged guilt and expressed remorse. He was convicted of rape--non consensual sexual intercourse. He was not charged with causing her physical injuries, so use of extreme force was apparently not an issue.

You never think rape charges are justified--you do nothing but deny that a rape has taken place, even when rapists, like the one in this case, confess. Perhaps you are looking for a way to blame the 89 year old victim--like she was wearing a sexy nightie and must have been "asking for it"--or maybe she was sending "mixed messages" about consent. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
BTW- Bill and I are on record that sex with a passed out woman who has not preconsented to sex has not consented, and has been raped.


That's not what you said about the extremely intoxicated 15 year old who was gang raped at Richmond High School. That girl was possibly comatose when the police found her. You thought it was a case of "consensual rough sex".Rolling Eyes
In another case I posted, that was video-taped by one of the rapists, an extremely intoxicated 17 year old was raped by three males while she floated in and out of consciousness, as could be seen on the video, you also said you didn't think that one was rape.

Glad you now think that if she's really passed out cold it's rape. But, just before she passes out, you'd probably see her as "fair game", even though she'd be just as impaired at that point too. Since when did consent become important to you? You're the one who has been arguing the issue of consent, claiming the very clear definition of "consent" in your state was too vague for you to understand.

hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 11:36 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You thought it was a case of "consensual rough sex".
I said that it was highly likely that it started that way. Once thing you and I dont know is how drunk she was during the sex. We know that the cops found her in a drunk pass out, but we also dont know how long she had been that way and when the last guy had sex with her. For all we know they had sex with her for as long as she was into it, but when she passed out they stopped, that the guys on the scene when the cops rolled up had been guarding her but ran because they dont trust the cops. (not that likely, but based upon the facts as I know this sequence of events is possible, and it is possible the guys are all innocent) There was 4 hours between when she walked out the door and when the cops found her, the timeline is long and we have none of it....kinda hard for you and I to comment on what happened, because we have almost no information, and as we see with the bit about the claim that she was drinking early, some of the information might not be right. We also found out that while it was originally claimed that she was "beaten and bloody" it turns out from pretrial discovery that the only place that took a blow was her head, which is consistent with a drunk hurting THEMSELVES, and she had a few tiny scratches on her back that barely drew any blood. Again, the information we have is not reliable, we should not pass judgment.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 11:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
it turns out from pretrial discovery that the only place that took a blow was her head, which is consistent with a drunk hurting THEMSELVES, and she had a few tiny scratches on her back that barely drew any blood. Again, the information we have is not reliable, we should not pass judgment.


She was drunk during the sex. The sex began after she collapsed from drinking. The defendants aren't denying she was drunk--extremely drunk. And this was witnessed by a lot of people who described her as trying to fight back and saying, "No".

The blow to her face was caused by one of the men smacking her--back-handing her several times, hard. He admitted doing that, and a witness verified it. I think he fractured her cheekbone. And she didn't have a few scratches on her back, she had scratches and scrapes on her back and knees--consistent with being dragged by someone.

Again, you are blaming the victim--saying her injuries were possibly self inflicted. The girl was beaten.

There really is no question this girl was gang raped, and rather brutally gang raped.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 12:04 am
@firefly,
Quote:
There really is no question this girl was gang raped, and rather brutally gang raped.
If it did not start as rape it probably got to be rape at some point or another, we dont know enough to say, and it does not matter.....the guys will fry no matter what the truth about the events of that night are.

BTW- the blow to the head that you speak of was a slap...as is found in rough sex, not normally damaging...the head damage most likely came from her banging her head on the cement under the table, she was found passed out under the table over the bar with her head on the cement...which is also where the knee skin would have come from, not from dragging,,,all of which in theory could have been consensual. We don't know.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 12:35 am
Hawkeye I been watching a PBS show dealing with women who defuse or otherwise deal with bombs and IED devices for the military.

One wonder how these hundreds of young women would reacted to Firefly claims that they are poor children in need of special protections from the evil predatory males that they might be dating. Helpless victims to any smooth talking male they might run into.

The reason why the Fireflies of the world will not get to dictate the “proper” relationships between men and women is that as more and more women are assuming that kind of former male only role, it will get harder and harder not to grant full adults rights and demand full adults responsibility from the 52 percents or so of the population with female plumbing.

The not so hidden truth of the feminists is that the very worst thing for their movement is to have a large percent of women who as a matter of course assume full adults responsibilities and the burden of not only their own welfare but that of the men and women around them.

I can not see firefighters, police officers, combat soldiers who happen to have female plumbing doing anything but laughing at Firefly for example.

0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 01:08 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I was pointing out a study that says that 12 is when kids currently start to be sexually active.
That is not ALL kids. Experimenting at your own pace is totally different from being pushed into the deep end.

I have often wondered if 15 yr olds might not be better off learning about sex from adults. Given the horrific cruelty of that latest rape FF is touting, would that girl have avoided the drunkeness if she had a healthy sex life, even if it was with an older person ? Would those youths have treated her so disgustingly if they had an older female giving them regular sex ? All the really abusive sexual encounters seem to involve the young.
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 01:13 am
@firefly,
Quote:
They are not "sexual laws" they are sexual assault laws.
I thought we were arguing where to draw the line ? Too far one way is definitely intruding on the other.

Quote:
Right, I have only been discussing real rapes.
I'll say it again....one study found 60% of CONVICTIONS were where the female had lied.

Quote:
People are responsible for obeying the law--no matter what kind of law it is--and if they violate the law, they should expect to be punished for it.
Have you read the USA Constitution ? Unjust laws are to be resisted.
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 01:21 am
@firefly,
Quote:
you do nothing but deny that a rape has taken place, even when rapists, like the one in this case, confess.
They dont confess to a rape, they confess to breaking the law and there are many other reasons for doing so apart from guilt.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 01:25 am
@firefly,
Quote:
She was drunk during the sex. The sex began after she collapsed from drinking.
She was drunk during the driving of a vehicle. The accident occurred after she collapsed from drinking. Now find an excuse to let her off the hook.

In some cases bars have been sued for letting people drink and drive. Where were her friends ?
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 01:54 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
That is not ALL kids. Experimenting at your own pace is totally different from being pushed into the deep end.

How is making the AOC more in line with when humans start to have sex "pushing them into the deep end"? I happen to think that when the hormones start popping and the body is ready around the twelfth birthday that making them wait till 17 or so to give them the keys to their body is cruel, and counter productive.

Quote:
I have often wondered if 15 yr olds might not be better off learning about sex from adults
I once told firefly that there were primitive cultures that did exactly this, it was a rite of passage to get broken in by an adult, rarely but sometimes this was a parent, at about 13-14 years old .....she did not believe me. This is not our way, but I can see why it might have been considered the best way to get people ready for a happy and productive life of sex. Not all humans have been as hung up on sex as we post industrial moderns.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 02:08 am
@firefly,
The only problem I have with the current rape law is this part...

Quote:
The identities of both victims are protected by law.


Now I know the case you linked was in England, but even in the states the victims identity is protected.
I personally dont think thats fair.

Now I know you are gonna go on about the victims right to privacy, but doesnt the accused have that same right.
Look at what happened at Duke, as a classic example.
The men accused had their names and photographs plastered all over the news, while the woman accusing them was protected.
It finally was proven that they didnt rape her, but their names and reputations were already destroyed.
And suing in civil court wouldnt do anything to restore their reputations.

I personally think that it should be that both parties are identified publicly, or neither party is identified.
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.07 seconds on 07/03/2025 at 04:08:34