Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@aidan,

I had a friend who wanted to get dropped off at a female homosexual orgy. She invited me in for a drink to thank me. Women were going off to the bedrooms and looking at me crosseyed. Some days later she told me that after I left they ran around and locked up the house and barricaded doors, convinced I was going to break in and rape all 20 odd of them. They also had some of the best sex ever as reported to her, whether they did or not I dont know. It seems the threat of a penis is very exciting to some so long as they can reject it.

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@aidan,

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And if someone said to me, 'You have the choice of getting in a car crash or being raped today,' I'd take my chances and choose the car crash.

You have missed the point. The choice is DYING in a car crash or being raped and living.

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Rape and the thought of being raped is not at all exciting to me.

Did I say it was ? So we have one down, 3 billion to ask.

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@firefly,

Poor Firefly you had been exposed on this thread for what you are just a feminist who does not in fact care a bit about the crime of rape toward women or children.

You are instead trying your very best to used the fear of such crime to promoted your own social agenda.

In order to do so you had try to pump up the numbers of a fairly rare crime into a crime far more common then the common cold.

The average large University had on average ten or less reported rapes a year not the three hundreds to four hundreds rapes needed to produce the claim one on four rapes in four years fantasy you wish to promote.

You hate the very fact that reported rapes in the US are now at a thirty low by FBI statistics a downward trend that had been ongoing for at least 15 years.

You had also been trying to redefine rape/sexual assaults so a large percent of the normal interactions between men am women who neither consider a crime would be turn into rape as if by the wave of a magic wand.

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@BillRM,

Some people enjoy the idea of being a victim. It gets them better protection.

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@firefly,

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The point of this thread has been to discuss rape and the attitudes that contribute to rape being a crime which can be committed with impunity because rapists so often escape punishment.

That is your motivation for being here in this thread, mine is to discuss what would be sound public policy, to talk about the intersection of the sexual good functioning/sexual safety/individual rights/ the states desire for order. We could do what ever would most cut down on rape like you want to do, but the fulfilment of your dream would be accomplished by outlawing all non lesbian sex. I am not interested.

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Rape and sexual assault isn't that uncommon, and you damn well know it.

It is no where near as common or as damaging as the rape feminists advertise, but it is more common than it needs to be. I am all for cutting down the number of women who feel that they have been sexually wronged. Part of getting there will require educating women about the part they play in sex gone bad....an other part of the answer is educating men about the part that they play.....another part will be to finally put to bed American sexual Puritanism because all of these half baked ideas on what the erotic is makes it very difficult for individuals to figure out and the acquire what they need.

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Why is there a higher incidence of rape amongst women between the ages of 18-25 ? Perhaps they engage in high risk behaviour.....

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@Ionus,

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Why is there a higher incidence of rape amongst women between the ages of 18-25 ? Perhaps they engage in high risk behaviour.....

Of course young people also take far more risks then older people tend to do as in driving cars and therefore they died in cars accidents at a must higher rate.

Older women are far more likely to be at home with their husbands and children watching TV then out drinking alone in bars for example and therefore their risk of rape is near zero.

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@Ionus,

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I had a friend who wanted to get dropped off at a female homosexual orgy. She invited me in for a drink to thank me. Women were going off to the bedrooms and looking at me crosseyed. Some days later she told me that after I left they ran around and locked up the house and barricaded doors, convinced I was going to break in and rape all 20 odd of them. They also had some of the best sex ever as reported to her, whether they did or not I dont know. It seems the threat of a penis is very exciting to some so long as they can reject it.

And you're telling me this because....?
Yeah, so I guess female, homosexual orgy attenders represent the average woman and her thoughts toward the penis...
Laughing

And as far as being raped and living or getting in a car crash and dying - I can't say.

But I know the thought of someone even just kissing me who I didn't want to kiss, or putting his arm around me when I don't want it there - is pretty damned sickening.

So this 'rape as exciting entertainment' theory doesn't wash with me - but yeah - ask the 3 billion other women- and then come to the conclusion you want to come to.

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@Ionus,

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Why is there a higher incidence of rape amongst women between the ages of 18-25 ? Perhaps they engage in high risk behaviour.....

Or perhaps because they're seen as easier targets, more vulnerable, not having learned yet what steps to take to protect themselves and what situations not to put themselves into.

I faced this situation just the other day. I was having a new bathroom floor installed and the guy was supposed to arrive in the morning and do it - I had an appointment in the afternoon.
He didn't come and he didn't come, and so I called the place and was told he'd show up at noon. Well, my eighteen year old daughter was home, but I didn't want to leave her there alone with strange men I didn't know while I went to my appointment.
So I asked the guy, 'Are these good guys? Can you vouch for them? I even asked the guy how old they were.
I went back and forth with thinking about asking them to come another day when I'd be there, and my daughter just said, 'Mom - it's alright.'

So I told her, 'Don't go upstairs with them. Stay downstairs or outside and don't let them get in between you and the door.'

You might think I'm crazy - but these are things I've learned in various situations I've been in that she hasn't yet learned and it's my JOB to teach her how to keep herself safe.

Do I hate men? No ! Do I believe every man is a rapist? No!

But on the other hand, does anyone ever think they're gonna get in a car and crash and die the day they do? No!

And just because I've learned how to take care of myself by staying aware of my surroundings and being careful not to leave myself trapped and open to a possibility, doesn't mean I walk around afraid and fearful and hating men.

It's more like wearing a seatbelt. You don't get in the car THINKING - oh I could die in a car crash - but you take precautions.

I don't walk down the street thinking, 'Oh that guy might rape me,' but I take precautions.

I'm almost afraid to post this - now I'll probably get labeled a 'man/penis hater'

So I'll say it again - I hate women who lie and abuse power as much as I hate men who lie and abuse power.
But I'm not gonna act like rape doesn't happen - it does.

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@aidan,

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But I know the thought of someone even just kissing me who I didn't want to kiss, or putting his arm around me when I don't want it there - is pretty damned sickening.

My my you should be require to carry a warning sign around with you to let men know not to go near you as any attempts by them at starting physical intimates with you such as placing a hand on your shoulder will place them at risk.

Men are not mind readers and it is amazing to me that trying to do mild things like hold your hands or others such mild romance gestures could sicken you even if you are not interest in that guy.

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@Ionus,

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Rape and the thought of being raped is not at all exciting to me.

Did I say it was ? So we have one down, 3 billion to ask.

You can make it two down, but I'd be highly skeptical of someone's viewpoint on sexual assault if they believe, to begin with, that rape could be exciting.

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@mysteryman,

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Of course whats interesting is a rapist CANNOT use the excuse that he was drunk at the time so he (or she) isnt responsible.
But by the same token the victim CANNOT use that excuse either as a reason to claim rape, if the victim took the drugs or alcohol WILLINGLY.

No, the rapist cannot use intoxication as an excuse for rape, just as a drunken driver cannot use intoxication as an excuse for a DWI homicide..

If the victim took drugs or alcohol willingly, she can still be raped, if the sex was non consensual. Someone who is intoxicated can also choose to have consensual sex.

Rape is non consensual sex. The issue in deciding whether rape occurred is whether there was lack of consent by the victim at the time of the act.

If the victim took alcohol or drugs voluntarily, was she or he so incapacitated, or physically helpless, as a result of ingesting those substances, that they were unable to give consent? For instance, they could be unconscious, or barely conscious, or floating in and out of consciousness. Or so drunk and drugged, they can't either offer resistance, or give consent.

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So this is saying that if you CHOOSE to get drunk, or do drugs, then it will be very hard for you to prove an assault occurred, because the intoxicating substance was taken by you willingly.

No, that's not what it says. Just because someone is drunk doesn't mean they can't be assaulted--the issue is whether CONSENT was present. Someone who claims the sex was non consensual could have bruises, ripped clothing, witnesses, etc. as other evidence of an assault.
They could also go to an ER, for a rape exam, and have blood drawn to establish their blood alcohol level--if it's sufficiently high, it might support the contention that they were too impaired or physically helpless to give consent.

In typical he said/she said situations, where the female is intoxicated, and no force was used, but the female said, "No", and sex took place anyway, it is difficult to legally prove that a rape/assault took place. Those cases rarely go anywhere for that reason, unless there is other evidence of non consent. These are probably the least reported cases.

The issue isn't just whether the victim can use her intoxicated state to claim a rape took place. The real issue is what led the other person to believe that the sex was consensual--how did he know that she wanted it, and knew what she was doing, despite her being intoxicated. The issue is always whether consent was present or not--in any rape case.

The sexual assault/rape laws in most states are pretty similar. They really aren't meant to entrap anyone.

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@BillRM,

You know what Bill - you need to learn to read nuances.

If a man puts his arm around me and tries to hold my hand as a gesture of friendship, say, or comfort - that is entirely different from a man trying to touch me in the same exact places but with different intentions.

And a woman can tell- before any touching even starts - by the way he has looked at her, by the tone of his voice as he's speaking to her and moving in for the touch- whether or not she's comfortable with his intentions.

And if you are at all perceptive - women DO essentially wear/give signs that say either - 'Yes, I am open to that' or 'No, that's not on my agenda - keep it to yourself.'

Maybe part of your confusion about what constitutes rape, and/or even unwanted touching is your inability to fathom the difference and the fact that the woman's feelings about who touches her body and why are important.
And should be respected - and not belittled - as you've just done.

I don't give a **** if a man is attracted to me - if I'm not attracted to HIM - I don't want him touching me.

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@aidan,

Re: Aidan's post 4412134

Sounds like my mom. But I think that was exactly the right thing to do. I would have done the same if I were you.

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@aidan,

My lord so a group of tradesmen are so likely to be rapists that you need to go into a panic concerning your daughter well being.

Any firm who send out rapists is not going to be in business for long my friend for one thing.

Your daughter face far higher risks of harm in many day-to-day actives that I am sure you do not give a moment of thought to.

I had always been of the opinion that we need to have a high school level course on how to judge life risks in a sane manner.

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@firefly,

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The sexual assault/rape laws in most states are pretty similar. They really aren't meant to entrap anyone.

Not they are not but you would like them to be.

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@spidergal,

Yeah, I was relieved that it all went fine. She said they were nice guys.
But you know - she's a spacy kid sometimes. I could just picture her sitting on her bed with her headphones on and getting snuck up on- how does she know not to do that unless someone teaches her not to?

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@BillRM,

Why do you act as if things that have happened could not happen?

So you would leave your daughter alone in a house defenseless with two strange men you've never met before without a second thought?

And the fact that I DID decide to leave her there speaks to the fact that I thought that they probably WERE NOT rapists - okay?

But what if they were? And what if I didn't at least try to teach her how to defend herself?
What sort of mother would you think me to be then?

**** you - I'd rather be safe than sorry- and I don't care what you think that says about me.

*excuse the language everyone - but Bill don't mess with me when it comes to my kids.

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@hawkeye10,

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I am all for cutting down the number of women who feel that they have been sexually wronged. Part of getting there will require educating women about the part they play in sex gone bad....an other part of the answer is educating men about the part that they play.....another part will be to finally put to bed American sexual Puritanism because all of these half baked ideas on what the erotic is makes it very difficult for individuals to figure out and the acquire what they need.

Emphasis mine.

Okay, hawkeye10. I read your earlier post about your family being sexually assaulted and how you are trying to advocate sound public policy on rape. I was actually going to believe you until I saw this reply.

I'm sorry I don't think a person who reckons sexual assault as "sex gone bad" is capable on framing a sound public policy on this matter.

Sorry if this rude, but what happened to your family, was it just "sex gone bad"?

Rape is not sex gone bad, hello? You make it sound like rape is a mutual thing - just something that didn't turn out as amazing as it was expected.

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@BillRM,

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Older women are far more likely to be at home with their husbands and children watching TV then out drinking alone in bars for example and therefore their risk of rape is near zero.

Oh please, women get raped in the daytime, as well as at night, and women can get raped in any location where they might be vulnerable--including their own homes and parking lots.

What is "high risk" behavior? It's being in the proximity of a rapist. And rapists don't wear signs identifying themselves. Which is why women always have to be concerned about their safety.

Rapes occur because rapists commit them--and not because of anything a woman does. Only the rapist is to blame for a rape.

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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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