25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 08:42 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
I find your dismaissal of men being raped very selfish and egotistical


Why do you assume that anyone here has dismissed male rape victims?

Have you bothered to read this entire thread?

Have you ever been raped?
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 08:44 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Hard to believe there is more than one person that thinks that way, much less three.
Why are PC thugs always distressed to find not everyone chants their mantra ? Just because someone doesnt want to hold your hand and tell you everything will be allright and you will never have to strive or struggle like the rest of us for the rest of your life doesnt mean they dont care.
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 08:48 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Why do you assume that anyone here has dismissed male rape victims?
That is what I read.
Quote:
Have you bothered to read this entire thread?
No, I dont have the time.
Quote:
Have you ever been raped?
Have you ever molested children ?
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 08:50 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

There was one female officer who was captured and raped by the Iraqis in the First Gulf War. She maintained there was no lasting damage and there are worse things they can do to you.
Yeah other than kill you and torture you that's about it and not all female rape victims get over it so easy as your officer in the First Gulf War, I expect having the tough training to be an officer was something to do with it, they get taught how to deal with it and techniques so you shouldn't categorize all rapes by just this one case that is not very informative is it?
Ionus wrote:
I dont know how helping the minority of rape vistims (women) has anything to do with a serious program to address rape. Wouldnt it be better to address the majority first ?
Not to clear on your point sorry, could you elaborate please?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 08:52 pm
Quote:
Rape victim empathizes with woman who fled from testifying
By Christine Clarridge
Seattle Times staff reporter
November 8, 2010

The 37-year-old Wallingford woman's heart broke when she heard that a young woman had fled to the roof of the King County Courthouse last week rather than face questioning from her accused rapist.

"I totally understood, and it made complete sense to me," said the Wallingford woman, who faced her attacker from the witness stand last year. "The urge to run is overwhelming."

The woman had been raped at knife point on Oct. 20, 2008, while her children were asleep in her home. The accused rapist, Sankarandi Skanda, 36, chose to act as his lawyer, and that meant he had the right to question her on the stand.

For two days, she recalled, she endured "outrageous" accusations and questions from Skanda, who claimed she had hired him to kill her husband. The Seattle Times typically does not name victims of sexual assault.

Skanda killed himself in his jail cell before the trial concluded.

But the case prompted state Rep. Brendan Williams, D-Olympia, to introduce House Bill 2457 that would have allowed judges discretion in protecting sexual-assault victims from direct questioning by their alleged assailants.

The law would have allowed judges to order pro se defendants — that is, those acting as their attorney — to question alleged victims via closed-circuit television, as now allowed in some child-abuse cases. Or alternately, to allow a judge to order the defendant to question the alleged victim through a standby attorney, Williams said.

He said the bill "recognized that sexual-assault victims can be traumatized to the point that they become incapable of speaking." The bill passed the House unanimously, according to Williams, but stalled in the Senate's judiciary committee over concerns that the proposed law would violate a defendant's constitutional right to confront the accuser.

Williams, who did not run for re-election, said state Rep. Roger Goodman, D-Kirkland, has agreed to reintroduce the bill next session.

"Should it pass?" asked the woman from Wallingford. "Absolutely."

"Ask yourself why they want to represent themselves?" she said Monday. "If they wanted to prove they were innocent, they would depend on a good lawyer. But they want to interfere with the process, put their victim through it again and assert their authority."

While she relived the horror of her rape on the stand, she said her attacker "smirked and enjoyed the spotlight."

Skanda, also known as Franklin Antill, was found dead inside his cell at the King County Jail on July 2, 2009. A noose fashioned out of bedsheets was tied around his neck, and a stack of trial paperwork was jammed against the cell door in an apparent attempt to keep jail staff from entering.

After the case was dismissed, several jurors said they would have voted him guilty on all charges.

"He had no credibility," said juror Alice Sieger, of Seattle.

On Thursday, a 21-year-old woman who was scheduled to take the witness stand in the rape trial of Salvador Aleman Cruz went to the roof of the courthouse and threatened to jump. She reportedly told prosecutors that she'd rather die than face Cruz, who was her mother's boyfriend when she was a child.

Cruz, who is representing himself, is charged with child rape and molestation for allegedly assaulting several young girls between 1992 and 1998.

A judge on Monday denied Cruz's request for a mistrial. Cruz claimed jurors' knowledge of Thursday's incident could impact their impartiality, but Superior Court Judge Douglass North disagreed.

Also Monday, prosecutors dropped the charges against Cruz that involved the 21-year-old, meaning she no longer will have to testify.

The other alleged victims will take the stand, prosecutors said.

The Wallingford woman said her heart goes out to them all.

She knows she has advantages that the 21-year-old woman, and the other alleged victims, couldn't possibly have at their ages.

She has maturity, she said, and a strong sense of herself. She has a degree in industrial engineering and an MBA. She has a supportive family and financial resources.

She was "strong-armed" into treatment at the Harborview Center for Sexual Assault & Traumatic Stress that "was the most grueling hard work," but says it was among the best things she could have done for herself. The center offers counseling and treatment to individuals affected by traumatic events, including abuse, crime, domestic violence and accidents.

The treatment allowed her to speak about the rape without being traumatized.

"I'm able to think of myself as a survivor now and not a victim," she said.

Even with all that support, her ordeal was terrifying, she said.

"I know I'm very fortunate and that it's a thousand times harder for other people," she said. "The only thing I can say is try to be brave, even after everything you've been through. You just have to be brave."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013381490_rapevictim09m.html


Quote:
Nov 8, 2010
Lawmakers weigh defendant's right to defend themselves against victim's trauma
By TIM HAECK
KIRO Radio

Last week an alleged child rape victim threatened to jump off the King County courthouse rather than face her accused attacker in court.

The constitution guarantees a defendant's right to act as his own attorney and to confront his accuser. But state lawmaker Brendan Williams says allowing a rape defendant to stand in court and cross examine his alleged victim goes too far.

"I think really it just becomes an exercise in courtroom theater that we should not indulge."

Victim advocate Andrea Piper says that such an experience can be traumatic for the victim.

"There is a significant amount of trauma that can be associated with revisiting the events that happened to a survivor.

University of Washington law school professor Mary Fan says the US Supreme Court has upheld limits to a defendant's right to represent themselves in court.

"It's not that absolute right that you stand always in the shoes of a lawyer, because the notion is that you're not a lawyer.

Williams has proposed legislation that would allow judges in certain cases to prevent defendants who act as their own attorneys from questioning victims.

"To have one's alleged victimizer looming over them in the witness box obviously can have a chilling effect on eliciting honest testimony."

Professor Fan has no problems with reasonable limits on constitutional rights, such as requiring that stand-by counsel conduct cross examination instead of having an accused attacker standing just feet away from a victim on the witness stand.

"These are just basic safety measures, frankly, for the witness."

A bill limiting a defendant's right to represent themselves passed the House unanimously but stalled in the state Senate last session.

On Monday, a judge will rule on a possible mistrial in the case interrupted last week by victim's threat to jump from the courthouse
http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=388123
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 08:57 pm
@firefly,
What the hell let throw away the consituation................
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:00 pm
@Ionus,
If you don't have the time to read this entire thread, don't make any assumptions about the issues which have been discussed here.

This thread also contains considerable information which contradicts the factual distortions you have asserted--not that you appear to want to have your personal subjective opinions disturbed by objective facts.

Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:03 pm
@Caroline,
Quote:
so you shouldn't categorize all rapes by just this one case that is not very informative is it?
You have missed the point. I was responding to someone who said they didnt know of ANY.

Quote:
Quote:
I dont know how helping the minority of rape vistims (women) has anything to do with a serious program to address rape. Wouldnt it be better to address the majority first ?
Not to clear on your point sorry, could you elaborate please?
If we were serious about rape we would start with gaols and prisons. A large number of rapes take place there and it arms occupants with a can-get-away-with-it attitude. We need to separate those who really should be incarcerated and those who should be made to repay a debt. A thief could have all his possessions removed and given to his victims. He could then have to work for several years during which time he paid a large proportion to the state. Failing to do so would result in sweat shops. Misbehaviour in the sweat shops would result in sentences to non-violent prisons. And so on.

I also can not see what is wrong with legalised prostitution, though many states and countries wont allow it.
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:06 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
don't make any assumptions about the issues which have been discussed here.
If you dont want new posters to join a thread complain to someone else. I raised points based on the post I read. If it was mentioned before, then by that standard we can close down the forum. I am sure there is nothing new under the sun.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:07 pm
@firefly,
So if a woman makes a charge it should automatically be assumed to be proven ? I thought women wanted equality ?
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:10 pm
@Ionus,
It would help if they kept rapists locked up a lot longer, they almost always reoffend making countless more victims of women and children, that is where society fails us!

What are the benefits legalizing prostitution?
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:15 pm
@Ionus,
Firefly does not wish women to be consider adults but a special class with all kinds of special protections even from their own poor judgments.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:17 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Until you are raped yourself
I find your dismaissal of men being raped very selfish and egotistical. It is a violent crime that leaves people scared for life. It just doesnt have the deep drama you want it to, like you have seen on TV.


Kindly point out where I have dimissed anything about a man being raped? Rape happens to men and women and it is reprehensible no matter who the victim is.

Quote:
You have missed the point. I am speaking for most. It is impossible to speak for one.


I think it is you that has missed my point. How can you speak for most when you cannot speak for even one? It makes no sense.
Quote:
I find your post extremely demanding for a level of protection that is unreasonable.


And just what is it that I am demanding?

Quote:
Why have you assumed I havent been ? Is it a special club where you need indignation to join ?


You attitude about rape surely does not fit the "norm" for a victim of rape but there are exceptions to everything I suppose.[/quote]
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:18 pm
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

How do you know they are different people?


Ionus seems to spell better? LOL
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:18 pm
@Ionus,
New posters are welcome to join, and they are also welcome to read the entire thread..a great deal of factual information has been shared in this thread and it will not be repeated each time a newcomer appears. Anyone really interested in the topic can read through the thread.

So, don't expect anyone to keep repeating information which has already been covered in this thread. If the points you are raising have already been discussed, your posts might be ignored. For instance, male rapes (which are decidedly a minority of all rapes) have been discussed throughout this thread, and prison rapes have been discussed as well.

Revising the prison system is not the topic of this thread.
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:20 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Hard to believe there is more than one person that thinks that way, much less three.
Why are PC thugs always distressed to find not everyone chants their mantra ? Just because someone doesnt want to hold your hand and tell you everything will be allright and you will never have to strive or struggle like the rest of us for the rest of your life doesnt mean they dont care.
I think Bill and Hawkeye have made it perfectly clear how little they care about victims of rape.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:21 pm
@Caroline,
Quote:
It would help if they kept rapists locked up a lot longer
It would place more demands on burden of proof...something that is already under pressure.

Quote:
What are the benefits legalizing prostitution?
A reporting process where customers can be identified and put on a watch list if they are violent towards the prostitutes. This might make it easier to accept a woman's testimony in court as to motive of the accused if the accused had a record of violence. The customers of prostitutes tend to not be violent rapists, but prostitution is a safety valve to a small extent.

It would also get prostitutes off the dangerous streets, another instance of rape that never gets reported though the violence associated with street prostituion is legendary.

It would also help if pornography was banned. Increasing frustration is not a good idea. It is very rarely watched by people in a healthy relationship.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:26 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Most women who are raped feel guilty that they are not as traumatized as non-rape victims want them to be.

they are made to feel guilty that that they are not as traumatized as the rape feminists claim that they should be...these victims are made to feel like there is something wrong with them.

Quote:
Looking at the percentage
of rape victims and non rape victims’ scores that were in the clinical range on the PDS (using the
guidelines set by the authors of the PDS), 22% of women who had not experienced rape reported
clinically elevated anxiety symptoms on the PDS, whereas 36% of rape victims reported clinically
elevated anxiety, X2 (1) = 20.2, p < .005. Similarly, while 11.6% of non-raped women had
clinically elevated depressive symptoms, 24.5% of rape victims had clinically elevated symptoms
of depression, X2 (1) = 26.5, p < .005. More dramatically, while the responses of 14% of women
who had not been raped suggested that they met criteria for a diagnosis of PTSD, 33% of the rape
victims’ responses suggested they met criteria for a diagnosis of PTSD, X = 50.8, p < .005.
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-11062003-190640/unrestricted/heatherlittletondissertation3.pdf

If one were to believe the rape feminists they would believe that 100% of rape victims are depressed, have PTSD, and that none of those who had not been abused by men have these problems, as it is claimed that the abusive male is the cause of all of women's problems.

This subject of rape victims who are not traumatized enough to ever have any difficulties adjusting to rape is taboo of course. I raised the point early in the thread but of course it went no where. This is very lightly studied, but I once saw a study that claimed that mid thirties percent (dont recall the exact number) of women who admit to themselves of having been raped suffer no significant effects. We also know that huge numbers of those who have been raped according to the law do not believe that they have been victimized at all. I have no idea what the number is of those who have been raped according to the law but have no significant trauma, but it must be well north of 50% I think. It is a disgrace that science appears to not have this number for us.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:27 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

It would place more demands on burden of proof...something that is already under pressure.
What do you mean?
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2010 09:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
Rape is a traumatic thing so stop talking utter bullshit you woman hating tosser.
 

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