25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 10:15 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:
I cannot disagree with your post. I am sure there is a lot more to the story than what we really know.
I do tend to lean to the "it was in his mind to do it so he probably would have tried someone else
if he hadn't tried this one."

I am really irritated at the thought that he was once a police officer.
We dare not risk nor compromise our possession
of a FREE COUNTRY; that makes life worth living.

People shoud be subject to criminal prosecution only for what thay DO,
not for what thay have thought. During the Korean War,
we found that captured Red Chinese prisoners of war possessed
small pocket diaries, which the communist political officer
required them to fill in, revealing their thoughts thru out the day.
Thay had been ordered never to think of sex,
but INSTEAD, to think of the Communist Party.
In America, we shoud be subject to prosecution ONLY
for what we have done, not what we thought.

Everyone is 100% free and autonomous between his ears.

The police can be a ruff bunch of fellows; some of them are.

Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 10:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

The penalty should not be 20 years and a lifetime as a sex offender however.


What, in your opinion, should it be?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 11:15 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:
It is so dangerous to leave your drinks unattended! She should have taken it with her.
But, I guess she was like most of us thinking, "it couldn't happen to me."
Yes, or used it for its intended purpose b4 leaving.





David
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 02:44 am
@Intrepid,
Quote:
What, in your opinion, should it be?
IDK, but the penalty for engaging the services of an underage sex worker should not be the same as for a predator of children. The person who is selling themselves is not at all the same as person who never intended to have sex but was convinced to do it, the law must be sensitive enough to recognize and adjust to the variations in the level of offense committed.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 03:14 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
IDK, but the penalty for engaging the services of an underage sex worker should not be the same as for a predator of children. The person who is selling themselves is not at all the same as person who never intended to have sex but was convinced to do it, the law must be sensitive enough to recognize and adjust to the variations in the level of offense committed.


Hawkeye first when you are talking about children the question of free will is not a minor issue.

Children are depended on the adults around them for guides and convincing a child that it is a great and fun idea to be a sex worker is more then doable in many cases.

That does not however mean that a child with the very poor luck to have such adults in her life should have less protection then a child with a far more normal upbringing.

There is no way that a man who knowing have sex with a 13 years old should not be punish harshly and to the same degree sex worker or no sex worker.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 05:53 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
What, in your opinion, should it be?
IDK, but the penalty for engaging the services of an underage sex worker should not be the same as for a predator of children. The person who is selling themselves is not at all the same as person who never intended to have sex but was convinced to do it, the law must be sensitive enough to recognize and adjust to the variations in the level of offense committed.


You are truly delusional. A predator of children is a pedophile regardles of any degree of permission from the child. The fact that you don't understand, or accept, this is astonishing.

It is not legal for an underage person to engage in prostitution and it is not legal for an adult to have sex with a child. Consent is not an issue in this because the child cannot give consent.

Your assertion that the law must change to provide avenues for pedophiles is sickening and perverse.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 07:45 am
@Intrepid,
Quote:
It is not legal for an underage person to engage in prostitution and it is not legal for an adult to have sex with a child. Consent is not an issue in this because the child cannot give consent.


Hawkeye thinking that because a young girl of 13 is offering sex for money the punishment should be less then otherwise I happen strongly to disagree with for the reasons I had already given however this go is beyond legal or not legal.

For once the laws that protect children at the very early age of 13 from this kind of sexual conduct made sense with or without her permission.

There is no question that the proper age of consent is set in a arbitrary manner that reasonable people can morally disagree on however the age of 13 is so low that I can not see anyone arguing that should be a set point.

Hawkeye in his posting stated he wish the set point to be 15 and to me that is too low also but not so low that it is an indication of any moral failing on his part in my opinion.

For a person who is near the age of consent and is offering sex for money I also see nothing morally wrong with the courts taking that fact into consideration in sentencing of a man who had taken up the offer however not for a child of 13.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 08:12 am
@BillRM,
This is one of the very few times that we agree and I must applaud your reaction to Hawkeye in this instance.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 09:55 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:
I cannot disagree with your post. I am sure there is a lot more to the story than what we really know.
I do tend to lean to the "it was in his mind to do it so he probably would have tried someone else
if he hadn't tried this one."

I am really irritated at the thought that he was once a police officer.
We dare not risk nor compromise our possession
of a FREE COUNTRY; that makes life worth living.

People shoud be subject to criminal prosecution only for what thay DO,
not for what thay have thought. During the Korean War,
we found that captured Red Chinese prisoners of war possessed
small pocket diaries, which the communist political officer
required them to fill in, revealing their thoughts thru out the day.
Thay had been ordered never to think of sex,
but INSTEAD, to think of the Communist Party.
In America, we shoud be subject to prosecution ONLY
for what we have done, not what we thought.

Everyone is 100% free and autonomous between his ears.

The police can be a ruff bunch of fellows; some of them are.


I never said anyone should be prosecuted for what they thought. My assertion is this PARTICULAR person has either probably done this before or would do it again. If it was not in their mind to do such a thing he wouldn't be in the position he is in. Since he DID IT, he should be prosecuted. If he had only thought it and not done it there's nothing to prosecute.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 10:27 am
@Intrepid,
The 13 year old was identified in several news stories as being a neighbor of the man who was arrested. There is no reason to assume she was engaged in prostitution. Why the immediate need for Hawkeye to trash her reputation? 13 year olds can do a lot of things (vandalism, stealing, fighting, possession of drugs etc.) to wind up on probation. And they can have a lot of reasons for not wanting people (like mothers, probation officers) to have their Facebook password.

I agree with BillRM on this particular issue too.

Isn't it also amazing how his posts on this are suddenly more coherent and better written?

Hawkeye has said that the age of consent for sexual activity should be as low as 12. That's one reason he defended Polanski on the rape charge with a 13 year old. So, that he feels a 15 year old should be able to engage in prostitution really should surprise no one.

But BillRM fails to realize that adult women are often in states, such as extreme intoxication, that render them quite vulnerable to sexual assault, certainly as vulnerable, if not more vulnerable, than a child would be. That the law protects people in such states is not to treat them as children, but rather to realistically acknowledge their vulnerability to a predator.

Similarly, elderly women are more vulnerable to sexual assault, which is why many places have increased penalties for attacking such individuals over the age of 65--they merit more protection in the form of stronger deterrents. Harsher penalties also keep those who sexually attack the elderly off the streets for longer periods.

And sexual assaults against the elderly are clear examples that rape is not a crime of sexual passion. It is an opportunistic sexual assault of a vulnerable female. Like this one...

Quote:

Illegal alien pleads guilty to raping 94-year-old woman in California
October 19th, 2010

On Friday, Roberto Recendes, 42, pleaded guilty to the 2002 brutal rape of a 94-year-old woman at an assisted living facility in Palo Alto, California. Because of the plea agreement, the Mexican national faces a 17-year prison sentence.

According to the Santa Clara County District Attorney's Office, Recendes admitted to one count of sexual penetration by force and to one count of elder abuse. SC District Attorney’s spokeswoman Amy Cornell said that the illegal alien also admitted to an allegation that he inflicted great bodily injury upon the victim.

Around 3:00 a.m., on May 10, 2002, Recendes entered the elderly woman’s apartment at Palo Alto Commons, through an unlocked patio door. She tried to fend-off the rapist, scratching her attacker and ripping off his gold chain and watch, which he left at the scene and were later instrumental in his conviction.

In December 2007, Recendes was arrested in Mexico and after several months, he was extradited to the U.S.

The woman, has since died, never having seen her attacker brought to justice.
http://www.examiner.com/immigration-reform-in-national/illegal-alien-pleads-guilty-to-raping-94-year-old-woman-california


The man in the above case had been deported back to Mexico after a domestic abuse case. At that time his DNA was taken and entered into a database. Unfortunately, it still took several years to match the DNA to this rape and return him to the U.S. But, in the end, he was brought back, and justice was served.

BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 10:43 am
@Intrepid,
Intrepid sex laws are a highly emotional area especially as it relate to children and had results in unneeded name callings all too many times on this thread and this website.

Hawkeye positions are a few standard deviations from the norm but are mostly well thought out and interesting even when I do happen to disagree with him.

Getting away from Hawkeye the child porn laws in the US are insane in my opinion and in daring to express that opinion I had been charges more then once with being a collector of such pictures.

The UK and other nations have a graded system where not all under age sexual pictures are the same or call for the same minimum punishment.
A picture of a 16 or 17 year old person in a sexual situation does not call for the same punishment as of a video of an infant being rape for example but that is the kind of craziness we have now in the US.

Hell it so crazy that if a 16 years old take a sexual picture of herself and email it to her boyfriend they both are in theory looking at a 5 years minimum sentence and this in spit of the fact that in most places in the US it is legal for them to be lovers.

The courts in fact are beginning to reject the high minimum sentence guidelines that congress love to pass on this subject.

We should be free to discuss such subjects without names callings resulting for so doing.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 10:48 am
@firefly,
Quote:
And sexual assaults against the elderly are clear examples that rape is not a crime of sexual passion


Sorry firefly my wife being a few years older them me is now over 65 and my sexual passion for her is the same now as the first time I met her in 1985.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 10:55 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Sorry firefly my wife being a few years older them me is now over 65 and my sexual passion for her is the same now as the first time I met her in 1985.


We are discussing rape. As usual you fail to understand simple statements.

BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 11:02 am
@firefly,
Quote:
We are discussing rape. As usual you fail to understand simple statements.


We are discussing if a person/woman over 65 can produce sexual passion and the answer is hell yes.

There is now not a few former movies stars for example who are near or pass the magic age of 65 that are still in such shape that they could still produce sexual desires in a large fraction of the total male population.

Sally Field come to mind.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 11:13 am
@BillRM,
We are discussing whether rape, particularly of the elderly, is motivated by sexual passion. Most rapes of the elderly occur in the context of another crime, such as burglary. The rape occurs because of the opportunistic presence of a vulnerable elderly female.

The woman in the case I posted was 94. I doubt her rape was an act of sexual passion generated by her particular physical desirability and attractiveness. She was simply there, available, and had a vagina.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 11:17 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
We are discussing whether rape, particularly of the elderly, is motivated by sexual passion.
Most rapes of the elderly occur in the context of another crime, such as burglary.
The rape occurs because of the opportunistic presence of a vulnerable elderly female.

The woman in the case I posted was 94.
I doubt her rape was an act of sexual passion generated by her particular physical desirability and attractiveness.
She was simply there, available, and had a vagina.
Elderly women are less available n less vulnerable when
thay r defensively well armed.

A word to the wise is sufficient.





David
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 11:18 am
@firefly,
Quote:
The woman in the case I posted was 94. I doubt her rape was an act of sexual passion generated by her particular physical desirability and attractiveness. She was simply there, available, and had a vagina.


I was not addressing one case but your claim that all attacks on a person over 65 can not have a sexual element involved for the sole reason of age.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 11:19 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Elderly women are less available n less vulnerable when
thay r defensively well armed.

A word to the wise is sufficient.


LOL my wife sleep with a 38 by her bedside a word of warning indeed.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 11:33 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Elderly women are less available n less vulnerable when
thay r defensively well armed.

A word to the wise is sufficient.
BillRM wrote:
LOL my wife sleep with a 38 by her bedside a word of warning indeed.
Meaning no disrespect to your wife:
during my childhood, for many years, I carried a .38 revolver
(2 inch Smith & Wesson Model 36),
believing myself to be thereby sufficiently well defended,
until I found out about the inadequate STOPPING POWER of a .38
against a motivated attacker in motion.

I suggest a .44 revolver (or at least a .45);
(revolvers are more mechanically reliable than automatics).
In my opinion: a .44 special (not magnum) is ideal,
loaded with hollowpointed slugs, for stopping power.

(Remember: its important to work out with it a lot,
to get accustomed to it and its recoil.)

FIREFLY: I am NOT hi jacking your thread,
only pointing out how to make women better rape-proof.

Rapists believe that it brings bad luck
if a woman shoots them in their large intestines.





David
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2010 11:51 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David, I'm not sure that arming elderly women--women in their 70's, 80's and 90's--who may have diminished reaction times, impaired eyesight and hearing, and problems with motor coordination or eye-hand coordination, not to mention cognitive problems--is a very realistic idea, particularly if these women have not used a gun before. But I get your point.

The best way to make women rape-proof is to stop people from raping.
 

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