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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
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firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 11:10 pm
@Arella Mae,
But I think that women still tend to blame themselves, Arella Mae. They say things like, "I shouldn't have had so much to drink" or "I should have seen it coming" or "why did I leave myself alone with him?" They know something bad happened to them, they know they feel awful, but the fact so many of them don't tell anyone about the incident, means there is still a lot of shame and a lot of self blame. And they know if they report it, particularly to the campus authorities, they may not be believed, and their life on campus is going to be difficult.

Just look at the trolls who continue to deny the problem of date and acquaintance rape. They think I'm making up definitions of rape, or making up rape laws, when the crime is already is already on the books--it is non consensual sexual intercourse/sexual penetration, and it doesn't have to involve physical force. That is already law. And very intoxicated women are legally considered unable to give consent--so sexual intercourse with those women is rape--according to existing laws. But the trolls have been excusing and defending the men who rape under such conditions. And I'm sure that is the prevalent attitude among a lot of men on college campuses--they convince each other it is acceptable behavior, despite the fact that all college campuses publicize the rape laws of their state--yet these men still commit rapes. That's what I meant in my other post about a sociopathic attitude toward rape--these people just ignore existing laws. They ignore the need to have "consent", as the law defines consent. They can only do that because there is so low a probability they will be charged or convicted. They can only do that if they completely disregard the welfare and feelings of the females involved.

So, is it any wonder the women are reluctant to report rapes and sexual assaults, or even to tell anyone what happened to them? Where are they going to find support? Particularly if they have to go through a campus inquiry and campus judiciary procedure, because, in some ways, those things sound like a worse ordeal than having to report it to the police, and academicians can't investigate or evaluate things like that with the same means, or experience, that law enforcement can draw upon. It's as though everyone knows these rapes are happening, they just don't have enough "evidence" to prove it, and the victims know that too, so they remain silent.

I was really impressed by the attitude and behavior of the man in the news article I posted who, after he sobered up, realized what he had done to his house-mate was wrong, he talked to the woman about it, he was concerned about having harmed her emotionally, and he turned himself into the police. Wouldn't it be wonderful if more people, particularly those college men who rape, did the same thing? What's apparently missing from the college men who commit these rapes is some normal sense of guilt about what they did--the kind of guilt that other man displayed by admitting what he did was wrong. Are the college men so emotionally disconnected they really lack any awareness that they are hurting these women? Do they just not give a damn? It's like those high school kids in Canada who committed and witnessed a gang rape, and seem to have regarded it as some form of entertainment. Even when they sobered up they still regarded it as "entertainment"--sort of real life porn--that's why they were posting and exchanging photos and videos of the rape. There is something very sick about all of this. What's missing is the capacity for empathy.

There is very little difference between the rapist who just got 103 years for raping that women in her 90's in her hospital bed, and the college guy who rapes an extremely intoxicated woman in a frat house. Both simply take advantage of an extremely vulnerable woman who is not in a position to offer much resistance when raped. Both are rapists. The difference is in how society views their victims--the 92 year old will be seen as credible when she says the sex was non consensual, but when the college woman says the same thing, there are doubts about her credibility that the sex was unwanted. So, one man is on his way to prison for a very long time, and the other one is free to rape another women after the next party.



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firefly
 
  6  
Reply Sat 9 Oct, 2010 01:24 am
It is incredible, that after all that has been said in this thread about rape, one troll still believes that people are to blame for their own rape. Because people buy into rape myths, he interprets that to mean that such beliefs reflect accurate perceptions rather than blatant distortions of reality.

Only the rapist commits the act of rape. Only the rapist is responsible for the rape.

If you leave the back door to your house unlocked and someone enters, without your permission, and leaves with your new 52 inch TV, has a crime been committed?

If you go to the police, and report this burglary, do you want your credibility questioned? Should they disbelieve you were really robbed just because you were careless and forgot to lock your door? Would you like to hear them say, "You were asking it for it buddy, you left your door unlocked" or "Maybe you really wanted to be robbed"? Or, "Hey, that big TV is a real come on for a burglar, you should expect to get robbed when you have things like that in your house". How about, "You weren't really robbed, you left your door open and invited him in"? Or, "You were sending mixed signals--if you really didn't want to be robbed, why did you leave your door open". How about, "The guy who took your TV claims he had your consent, that's why the door was open. Can you prove you didn't give consent, since your door was unlocked?"

Without consent is without consent, whether you are talking about someone entering your house or entering your body. Just as you know when someone has entered your house without consent, a woman knows when someone has entered her body without her consent.

Burglars ignore consent laws, and so do rapists.

And, even if you were foolish, or careless, in not locking your door, that doesn't mean you weren't robbed--that you weren't the victim of a crime. And you're not the one responsible for committing the crime.

It is those rape myths, and the victim blame that goes along with them, that we have to work to combat. And this thread has been one way to do that.

Only the rapist commits the rape. Only the rapist is responsible for the rape. And that is exactly what the rape laws say.



firefly
 
  0  
Reply Sat 9 Oct, 2010 02:07 am
We've mainly discussed incest in terms of male relatives and female victims. This woman was recently charged with incest, and the victims were her 14 year old son and 9 year old daughter . Somewhat bizzarely, the woman appears to have engaged in the sexual acts with her children for the purpose of creating pornographic photos, some of which she e-mailed to others. It is extremely rare for women to be involved in crimes like this with their own children. In one of the photos, taken with a timer, she is shown performing oral sex on her son.
Quote:

Mom in Alva accused of incest
Pictures show her engaging in sex with own children, Lee deputies say
By Gabriella Souza
October 7, 2010

A thousand pornographic images — some of which Lee County sheriff’s deputies say depict an Alva woman and her two children engaged in sexual acts — have landed the 31-year-old mother in jail on charges of incest, molestation and sexual assault.

The woman, who is not being named to protect the identity of her children, remained in the Lee County Jail on Wednesday night.

Her alleged involvement with child pornography was first investigated by the Department of Homeland Security and Immigration and Customs Enforcement, according to a sheriff’s report. Officials with those organizations showed deputies images they believe showed the woman’s involvement in producing pornographic pictures of her children.

One photo captured the woman performing oral sex on her 14-year-old son; another showed her son and 9-year-old daughter naked, sitting on a bed, the report said.

ICE and Homeland Security procured a warrant to search the home where the woman lived with her boyfriend, her two children and her boyfriend’s daughter. Neighbor Carol Davis said authorities searched her home as well, since the woman had been using her wireless Internet connection to transmit pictures.

“We didn’t have a block on it,” Davis said. “We have one now.”

Deputies asked the woman suspected of producing the child pornography to come to the sheriff’s office to answer questions. From there, they placed her into custody.

The woman had been e-mailing pictures to an ex-boyfriend, according to Chelsea Tindall, the daughter of the woman’s current boyfriend. It’s unknown why the woman was producing the images.

The sheriff’s report said the pictures were taken at an address in Lehigh Acres.

The Department of Children and Families said the children are now in their grandmother’s custody. The family was investigated twice before by DCF.
http://www.news-press.com/article/20101007/NEWS01/101006080/1075/Mom-in-Alva-accused-of-incest
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New details emerge in Alva incest case
news-press.com •
October 7, 2010

An Alva mother arrested after deputies say she took pornographic pictures of herself and her children believed sexual touching with her son would make him closer to her, according to court records.

The woman, who is not being named to protect the identities of her children, faces incest, molestation and sexual battery charges. She is in the Lee County Jail; her next court appearance is Nov. 8.

Court records said she met someone on a single parent’s Web site. The person, who claimed to have a Ph.D. in psychology, asked for pictures of the woman and her 14- and 9-year-old children taking a shower together, which the woman sent.

The woman’s then 13-year-old son was having behavior problems and the person told her touching him would make him closer to her, court records said. The person then started asking for more explicit pictures, which the woman took and sent.

The woman told deputies her son sexually touched her, and she had taken pictures of her daughter simulating oral sex on her brother, the court records said.

She also said she stopped taking the pictures after a few weeks because she realized it was wrong, court records said.
http://www.news-press.com/article/20101007/CRIME/101007020/1075/New-details-emerge-in-Alva-incest-case
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Oct, 2010 03:35 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
It is incredible, that after all that has been said in this thread about rape, one troll still believes that people are to blame for their own rape. Because people buy into rape myths, he interprets that to mean that such beliefs reflect accurate perceptions rather than blatant distortions of reality.

Only the rapist commits the act of rape. Only the rapist is responsible for the rape.

If you leave the back door to your house unlocked and someone enters, without your permission, and leaves with your new 52 inch TV, has a crime been committed?

If you go to the police, and report this burglary, do you want your credibility questioned? Should they disbelieve you were really robbed just because you were careless and forgot to lock your door? Would you like to hear them say, "You were asking it for it buddy, you left your door unlocked" or "Maybe you really wanted to be robbed"? Or, "Hey, that big TV is a real come on for a burglar, you should expect to get robbed when you have things like that in your house". How about, "You weren't really robbed, you left your door open and invited him in"? Or, "You were sending mixed signals--if you really didn't want to be robbed, why did you leave your door open". How about, "The guy who took your TV claims he had your consent, that's why the door was open. Can you prove you didn't give consent, since your door was unlocked?"

Without consent is without consent, whether you are talking about someone entering your house or entering your body. Just as you know when someone has entered your house without consent, a woman knows when someone has entered her body without her consent.

Burglars ignore consent laws, and so do rapists.

And, even if you were foolish, or careless, in not locking your door, that doesn't mean you weren't robbed--that you weren't the victim of a crime. And you're not the one responsible for committing the crime.

It is those rape myths, and the victim blame that goes along with them, that we have to work to combat. And this thread has been one way to do that.

Only the rapist commits the rape. Only the rapist is responsible for the rape.
That was skilled counterargument; most adroit; admirable (except insofar as it conflated robbery with burglary).





David
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firefly
 
  4  
Reply Sat 9 Oct, 2010 03:59 pm
Dumb dumb troll feels we grant too much power "to the one with the hole". Isn't that a delightful way to describe a female human being? Rolling Eyes

The dolt doesn't realize we are discussing sexual assault laws. Those laws give a person the right not to be assaulted. Access to the body of another requires that person's consent. Without consent, the act becomes an assault.

"Consent" appears to be a baffling or fuzzy concept only to those who are looking to find ways around it, or who want to nullify it. Those same people seem to be the ones most worried about being arrested for rape. Hmmmm....seems to be a connection there. If they acknowledge the need to have consent, and make sure they clearly have consent, perhaps they could stop worrying so much.
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Oct, 2010 04:04 pm
@firefly,
They are clueless for sure. I don't know about you firefly, but if I was with a friend who was drunk and they tried to give me money for any reason, I wouldn't take it. I don't think you would other. People that take advantage of anyone's weakness, whether a temporary or permanent one, lack character, don't you think?

I do have a question. These women that drink and then get raped, what do you want to bet people would try to keep them from driving? But, they (who know who they are) would probably let her drive anyway considering they believe they should be able to assault her.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  4  
Reply Sat 9 Oct, 2010 04:07 pm
@firefly,
I put more stock in what the Saturday morning cartoons have to say that those two morons of whom you speak. Pathetic creatures who are on the fringe of society and will probably never realize how ridiculous their comments are.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Oct, 2010 04:17 pm
This is a breaking news story... Perhaps this will finally expose, on a wider level, how vulnerable impaired college women are being sexually assaulted and raped. The police actually walked in on one man who was having sex with a possibly drug and alcohol intoxicated woman--he was arrested on the spot. He won't be able to claim it was "consensual".
Quote:

Cops Say Mass Overdose May Be Linked to Sex Assault Scheme
12 People, Mostly Women, Overdose at College Party; One Was Sexually Assaulted, Cops Say
By DEAN SCHABNER
Oct. 10, 2010—

Police are investigating whether 12 young people, mostly women, overdosed at a house party in Roslyn, Wash., as a result of a scheme to sexually assault women after they became incapacitated on spiked drinks.

The 12 were rushed to the hospital early today after they were given drinks spiked with a strong drug and then overdosed, police told ABC Seattle affiliate KOMO-TV.

One young woman remains in serious condition Saturday at Kittitas Valley Community Hospital after the bizarre drama, and one man is under arrest, KOMO reported.

Police said it appeared that none of the people who overdosed meant to get high or unconscious, because none had more than one or two drinks.

"We don't believe this was just a result of heavy drinking," Cle Elum-Roslyn Police Chief Scott Ferguson said.

"We don't know for certain [what drug was used]. We've drawn blood at the hospital," Ferguson said. "We're suspecting it's some type of roofie or some type of ecstasy, but that's yet to be known."

"Roofie" is the street name for flunitrazepam, a sedative commonly referred to as the "date rape" drug.

Police were called at 11:10 p.m. Friday about a possible overdose victim -- a young woman -- in a car at the Safeway grocery store in Cle Elum, Ferguson said.

The friends of the victim told police about the party and said that there were others there who also appeared to have suffered overdoses, he said.

When police got to the rented house in Roslyn, they found about 50 teens, many of them Central Washington University freshman, the chief said.

"As they entered the house they observed several individuals that appeared to be under the influence of some type of drug ... and were partially unconscious," Ferguson said.

In one room in the house, he said, officers found a young man sexually assaulting a woman who had apparently been incapacitated by a drug in a spiked drink.

The man, whose identity was not released, was arrested and the woman was rushed to the hospital, he said.

Police questioned about 35 people at the scene of the party, but Ferguson said they have not yet determined who spiked the drinks.

Copyright © 2010 ABC News Internet Ventures
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/sex-assault-scheme-investigated-mass-overdose/story?id=11841057
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