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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
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firefly
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 06:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The legal system really let us down in that case didn't it Bill......How many months did it take, how much unjust damage was done to innocent men, before some form of justice finally prevailed? And did we ever get justice? Were the men ever compensated for their torture and expenses? Was the liar ever criminally charged or forced into getting mental help? Was the system ever fixed so that this kind of abuse of innocents is less likely to happen in the future? Was the DA ever charged?

I think not, all I heard was some nonsense about how the victimizer liar was a victim in her own mind...Boo-Hoo, and how the DA was relieved of his job. NOT. GOOD. ENOUGH


You obviously haven't been reading this thread, or you've only read the BS that dumbo BillRM keeps posting. We discussed what went wrong with this case in some detail, and the injustice was not due to deliberate lies by the complainant.

The woman who alleged she was raped never really named the men accused. She misidentified them from a photo lineup and there were inconsistencies in her identification and story. It was an honest misidentification. The woman had a history of mental illness and had taken drugs the night of the party. The police were too hasty in making an arrest based on her ID and version of events. The D.A, withheld exonerating evidence. He wasn't just fired, he was disbarred.
And the accused brought multi-million dollar civil suits against the police dept. and the city. So, saying they weren't compensated is far from the truth. They did not hold the woman responsible--they said they saw her as a victim in this incident.

The case was a miscarriage of justice, but it was not due to a deliberate lie told by this woman to harm these men. It was the police and D.A. that did that to them.
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firefly
 
  4  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 06:52 pm
It is rather pathetic that the trolls keep dragging out that Duke University case over and over. They don't even remember how many times it's been discussed.

And now they want rapists castrated? Well, that should make all those date rapists, and those college men raping drunk women, very happy to hear that. This is how Haweye plans on helping the younger generation of men? Laughing

I don't think there are two more intellectually bankrupt individuals posting at A2K than the trolls. The more they post, the more they embarrass themselves. They get insulted in every thread they post in, and still don't take the hint. What empty lives the two of them must have to want to hang out here and make fools of themselves. I guess no one in the real world wants to bother with them either.




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firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 07:10 pm
This mother, whose daughter was raped and murdered, was able to turn her anger into a powerful example of strength and courage.
Quote:

Mother of Murdered College Student on 'Journey of Peace'
Brings Plea to Abolish Death Penalty to Sacred Heart University Students
By Nancy Burton
October 7, 2010

Vicki Schieber, whose only daughter was brutally raped and murdered in 1998, took Sacred Heart University students on a personal journey with her Wednesday evening as she told them why she is a fervent advocate of abolishing the death penalty.

When she was finished, many of the students flocked to sponsors of the talk to add their names to a growing pile of postcards that will be sent to Connecticut legislators in a campaign to end capital punishment in Connecticut.

"We'll have a new governor after the fall election and we may have an excellent shot at getting it passed," said Ben Jones, executive director of the Connecticut Network to Abolish the Death Penalty, who brought Schieber from her home in Maryland to join his group's campaign.

Gubernatorial candidate Dannel Malloy, a former prosecutor, opposes the death penalty. His opponent, Republican Tom Foley, is an advocate of the death penalty.

Last year, both houses of the General Assembly voted to abolish the death penalty in Connecticut, but Governor M. Jodi Rell vetoed the bill.

"Over the past 10 years, New York, New Jersey and New Mexico have abolished the death penalty," Jones said. "In Connecticut, legislative opponents of the death penalty are on the rise."

Schieber's daughter, Shannon, a 23-year-old who was on a full scholarship at the prestigious Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, was stalked by a serial rapist, Schieber related to the hushed audience of nearly 100 students in SHU's Shine Auditorium.

On the eve of her last final exam before graduation, 22-year-old Troy Graves entered her second-floor apartment by shimmying up an outside wall and breaking a screen-door lock on a tiny balcony as she showered.

Emerging from the shower, Shannon screamed when she encountered the stranger.

"For Shannon, everything went wrong that evening," Schieber said.

The scream was heard by her second-floor neighbor, who called 911.

But when police arrived shortly thereafter, officers discounted neighbors' reports of a disturbance after the officers knocked on Shannon's door and received no response. Graves had secured the screen door when he entered and police concluded there was no sign of a forced entry. Within five minutes, they left the scene, Schieber said.

Unbeknownst to the police, Graves was secreted inside the apartment.

He entered the apartment with an intention to rape, but he strangled Shannon to quiet her to avoid police intrusion, Schieber said.

The following morning, Shannon's brother, Sean, arrived at her office on campus to meet her for a prearranged luncheon date. When she could not be found, and her fellow students told him she had not appeared for her final exam, he went to her apartment.

The second-floor neighbor buzzed him in and together they broke the door to her apartment after she did not answer their knock.

When Sean saw the bloodied apartment and his sister lying naked on her bed, he fainted, Schieber said, tears welling in her eyes.

The Philadelphia police had failed to alert the four-block community in which Graves had stalked potential victims and raped at least two other women before he zeroed in on Shannon.

Schieber's initial reaction, shared by her husband Sylvester - "She was Daddy's girl," she said - was one of rage and hatred, driven by a fever to exact revenge on the cold-blooded killer who had stolen the life of their talented, treasured Shannon.

"My husband said if he'd been within five feet of him, he would have strangled him," she said.

But both she and her husband were brought up in the Catholic faith in the Midwest and, over time, they found themselves on a journey of peace, believing in the power of redemption and transforming their justifiable anger into positive acts.

"If you are raised with a set of principles," she said, it's necessary to honor them in practice.

"The death penalty diminishes us all," she said.

When Graves was arrested four years later in Colorado after resuming his serial raping, even after marrying and being hired as a high-security-clearance weapons specialist with the U.S. Air Force, DNA tests linked him to Shannon's rape and murder.

The Philadelphia prosecutor called for the death penalty.

But the Schiebers opposed it and eventually Graves pleaded guilty to Shannon's murder and 14 cases of sexual assault in an agreement by which he would serve life in prison with no possibility of parole.

"At the sentencing hearing, he turned to us and said, 'I wish to thank the Schieber family for believing in the sanctity of human life,' " said Schieber, who holds a Ph.D. in sociology and is a retired professor.

At age 26, Graves was put in solitary confinement for the first 18 months of his sentence, a customary prelude for a criminal imprisoned for a life term.

Graves - like others serving life terms for capital felonies - is paying for the crime in a "hellish" way, Schieber said, referring to the bleak conditions of a maximum security prison.

Schieber said she has overcome the anger she felt at first and has not allowed it to destroy her and her family as she said it has many other families of murder victims torn apart by pain and anger.

Schieber has sought to meet with Graves in prison as part of her journey of peace.

"What would you say to him?" asked a student.

"I hope to have a conversation with him before I die," she replied quietly. "I would tell him how I reached out to his mother and how she cried for hours. He grew up amidst violence."

"I hope he has that journey of peace, too," she said.

Schieber said prison rules and budgetary constraints - no funds to hire a social worker intermediary as the prison would require - have so far made such a conversation impossible.

Schieber began her talk by displaying a black-and-white photograph of Shannon to the audience.

"She's always sitting on my shoulder, wherever I go," Schieber said.

Schieber said Shannon was an exceptional child and young woman.

Shannon recited the alphabet at 18 months and was reading at the third-grade level when she was 3 years old, her mother said. She headed the equestrian team at Duke and led the student body as freshman president. She graduated from college in three years.

"But the best part of her, apart from her great brain, was that she was absolutely beautiful inside," Schieber said.

Schieber knew that Shannon was devoted to social justice issues and wanted to make a difference with her life.

Shannon volunteered one day a week to mentor inner-city children while she pursued her demanding graduate studies and was known to lend a hand to the elderly in her neighborhood on a whim - aspects of Shannon's life in Philadelphia that Schieber discovered only when her daughter's shaken acquaintances rose to speak at her memorial service.

Schieber praised the staff of The Philadelphia Inquirer for taking on the issue of why the police left the scene of the crime as it was unfolding. The Inquirer's dogged investigation of the Philadelphia Police Department led to a change in police procedures that mandates police officers remain at a potential crime scene on 911 calls until they have contacted superior officers and gained clearance to leave, she said.

"Shannon possibly would be alive," she said, if the police had heeded the complaints of Shannon's neighbors who alerted them and had forced their way into her apartment.

She said the newspaper's investigation led the department to reopen 2,000 sexual assault cases that had been closed as mere "investigatory complaints" – possibly to lower crime statistics – and reclassify 60 percent of them as active felonious assault cases subject to prosecution.

Schieber, a founder of Murder Victims' Families for Human Life, has testified before Congress, addressed legislators and editorial writers and spoken out across the country against the death penalty.

She attended the celebration when New Jersey abolished the death penalty.

"Shannon was with me, cheering me on with 'Go Mom!' " she said, expressing hope to return to Connecticut for its own celebration after the death penalty is outlawed.

She's especially gratified to share her story with students who, unlike many in adult audiences, may not yet have formed their own opinions.

When she concluded her talk, after a round of applause, a stillness filled the auditorium. Then students began slowly to approach Schieber to give her a hug and express their sorrow at her tragedy and awe at her fortitude.
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firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 07:30 pm
I'm not so sure that 103 years in prison is cruel and unusual punishment in this case. I think what this man did to a woman in her 90's was rather cruel and unusual. While she was a patient in a hospital, he went into her room and raped her. The sentence he received was double that of the normal sentencing guidelines, because of his victim's age and vulnerability.
Quote:

103-year sentence ordered in Kansas hospital rape
Associated Press -
October 8, 2010

SALINA, Kan. (AP) - A man has been sentenced to more than 100 years in prison for raping a woman in her 90s while she was a patient at a Salina hospital.

Saline County Judge Rene Young found there were "substantial and compelling" reasons to order the 1,240-month sentence Friday for 47-year-old Paul Henry Parker Jr.

The Salina Journal reported that Young noted the victim's age and vulnerability in doubling the standard sentence.

Parker was convicted in June of the Feb. 20 rape at the Salina Regional Health Center.

Parker's attorney, Mark Dinkel, previously filed a motion calling the sentence "cruel and unusual." He noted the sentence for premeditated murder is life with eligibility for parole after 25 years. And he says people convicted of treason, terrorism and felony murder are eligible for parole after 20 years.
http://www.nebraska.tv/Global/story.asp?S=13293578
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firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 08:14 pm
Quote:

How many women have endured a rape, and said nothing?
by Nancy Donoval
October 8, 2010

In all the coverage of the recent sexual assaults at the University of Minnesota, there's one line I just can't get out of my head.

In the St. Paul Pioneer Press, a campus police spokesman noted how unusual it is to have so many incidents reported in just two weeks.

The key word here is "reported." What's unusual is that this many assaults got reported so close together -- not that they happened.

Between the three at fraternity houses and another just last Tuesday at the Radisson Hotel on campus, we've heard about four assaults since Sept. 18. A Justice Department report found that only one in 20 sexual assaults is reported to the police. Are there 76 more we haven't heard about?

I was a college freshman in 1979, and I was raped at a frat house. It never occurred to me to call the police. I knew what had been done to me was awful, but I didn't know to call it rape.

Like a lot of people, I thought rape meant a stranger in a dark alley, not someone you know in a place you thought was safe.

Eventually, I did tell a few people. Not the police but some close friends. And I found out something that shocked me. Many of my friends had also been raped. And none of us had ever mentioned it to each other.

It's not just that most rape survivors never tell the police. Close to half of us never tell anyone.

A colleague told me recently she doesn't know anyone who's been the victim of a violent crime. "Yeah, you do," I told her. "We all do. We just don't know it."

Now I speak at colleges and universities. Every time I tell my story, other survivors tell me theirs. Sometimes I'm the first person they've told.

Rape still carries a stigma, and that fosters a culture both of silence. Silence and skepticism.

Minneapolis police have finished their investigation into one of the fraternity incidents. They say that no charges will be filed -- that there's not enough evidence "to support a criminal prosecution."

But that doesn't mean there was no assault. They just can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And with rape, doubt is our go-to response even though false reports are as rare as unreported rapes are common.

If we want more survivors to come forward, we need some radical lessons in listening. If we want to make our campuses safe, we must first acknowledge how dangerous they really are. Campus police decided not to issue a crime alert after the most recent assault, they say, because there's "no ongoing threat to the institution."

But what about the ongoing threat to its students?
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/10/08/donoval/
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hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 08:32 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Sexual desire is surly part of it however, there seem to be control and power and thrill components mixed up in it also. The Feminist can not always be completely wrong even if Firefly try hard to achieve perfect wrongness.

I fully concede that rape is grounded in the drive for sexual conquest. Where the rape feminist and I part company is that they want to stamp out this part of human sexuality by the use of punishments, and I not only think this impossible and barbaric but I also wonder why we would want to try. The ravishing of the female is one of the greatest and most fulfilling themes in the erotic, and is fulfilling to both the male and the female.
BillRM
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 08:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The ravishing of the female is one of the greatest and most fulfilling themes in the erotic, and is fulfilling to both the male and the female.


Role playing with a safety word included can indeed be erotic.

Hell if I was not a loyal married man I could see how hot and angry sex might be enjoyable for both myself and Firefly. Drunk
Arella Mae
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 08:38 pm
@firefly,
Isn't that something? They didn't really even know to call it rape? I guess that just shows how perception plays a bit part in pretty much everything. I do believe more women report rapes now than did in years past. Slowly, it is losing the stigma that was once placed on the woman (which was in total error.)
 

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