@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Quote:Sex is still sex--just as is it was 62 years ago.
Yes, but we must keep in mind that you are the same person who has said several times that rape has not changed over the years...in other words you are clearly full of ****.
...and you are clearly an asshole.
@Intrepid,
Quote:and you are clearly an asshole.
I dont feel any need to be nice to a person who claims to be arguing a position and yet consistently refuses to be honest. You should not hold this against me....standards are good, and integrity is the minimum requirement for debate. I can live with stupid, because stupid can learn. I can not live with intellectual thuggery.
@Arella Mae,
Quote:statistics that are READILY AVAILABLE out there. I know the information you have posted is correct. I've researched it myself. I don't care what those trolls
With all due respect you are one hell of a poor researcher if you had not come upon the fact that most of the claims for rape happening everywhere is base of surveys where the majority of the women label as rape victims strongly disagree with the label and a large percents of them are having ongoing relationships with their claimed attackers.
@Arella Mae,
Quote:Only in the regard that SOME men have changed to believe they can legally take advantage of an intoxicated woman and think they shouldn't be held accountable for it. Fortunately, it is not the majority that believes that tripe.
And most people do not agree that everytime a couple go out drinking together and have sex with alcohol in both their blood streams that rape had occur!!!!!
The picture of a cold sober male taking advantage of a poor dumb defenseless female does not happen in normal dating situations.
@HexHammer,
I happen to have that copy of the book "Sexual Behavior in the Human Male" in my personal library and even had read it from cover to cover and the thing that struck me the most is how the social assumptions of upper class mid-century researchers had color the whole report.
Upper class and lower class comments is all over the book with notes on how lower class women and men for example are far less likely take part in foreplay involving the woman breasts.
Oral sex is also rare in the lower classes as they are claims to focus on direct intercourse far more and the men of the lower classes care far less then the men of the upper classes in pleasing their partners.
In any case my impression was if most of this ever did apply to society and males it was the narrow society of that time period and have little universal truths concerning males.
@BillRM,
Quote:I've researched it myself. I don't care what those trolls
You know what I also find odds with the women here is the almost the delighted tones they had at times taken over rape news stories and how they fight tooths and nails any facts that rapes is happily far less common then the almost science fiction/fantasy claims of the Feminist movement.
Firefly one posting on a college rape was interesting see see see college rapes is far too common.
Well Firefly one rape in the whole country a year would be far too common but putting out nonsense that one if four college women will be rape does not help for a numbers of reasons.
We are discussing the crime of rape, and not behavior that falls within the norm of human sexual functioning--unless you consider sex with your 5 year old daughter normal, attacks on strangers (as old as 92) normal, and unwanted sex with barely conscious, or actually unconscious, individuals normal--in other words, we are talking about instances where the inability to appropriately control sexually aggressive behaviors goes beyond acceptable bounds and is considered criminal.
The women who live in this San Francisco apartment complex have good reason to fear for their safety--there have been 5 attacks committed there since June, by more than one man. How awful that women should have to live with such fear as a constant presence in their lives.
Quote:
Fifth rape attempt at Walnut Creek apartments
Sunday, October 03, 2010
WALNUT CREEK, CA (KGO) -- A Walnut Creek apartment complex now has a fifth female resident saying she fought off a rape attempt. The series of sexual assaults at the Park Regency Apartments dates back to late June.
Police say a man tried to shove a woman into an apartment just before 8 p.m. Saturday. She fell down a flight of stairs while fighting him, but she was successful at chasing him off.
"So scary. We're just wondering when this is going to end and what else is going to be done," Maddie Murphy says.
Murphy and her roommates have had a chain lock installed on their door since the attacks. They also have "Petey" their pit bull and they always use the buddy system. They still do not feel safe.
"I keep mace next to my bed every day. I wake up to little noises now more than I ever have. It's just always at the forefront of your mind," Murphy's roommate says.
Police blame the first three attacks on 22-year-old Antonio Mouton and say they have DNA to prove it. He is in jail, accused of one rape and two attempted rapes. His bail is set $12 million.
Investigators have a description of the man who committed the fourth sexual assault and are waiting to talk to the victim of this fifth crime. The apartment complex has added security guards, but residents would still like to see them work harder to protect them.
"They're not checking cars in and out on a regular basis, and things like that. We need to do more than just having more bodies in and around the complex," Emily Wetzel says.
"We've also asked what is the process for getting out of a lease, and they have told us there's no way out of it unless we are going to pay the difference which is a little too much for us right now," Murphy's roommate says. "So, there's no way out."
The latest victim was taken to a hospital because of her fall down the stairs. She was not sexually assaulted. Police do not have a description of her attacker yet, so they do not know if the last two assaults were committed by the same man.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=7703694
@firefly,
Quote:How awful that women should have to live with such fear as a constant presence in their lives.
And your wish to turn normal man/female dating relationships into crimes is going to help these women being attacks in this San Francisco located apartments building in what manner?
The rapist of one college student is now behind bars--hopefully for good--thanks to excellent police work. He claimed the sex with her was "consensual" and that he only used a stun gun on her to keep her from becoming "too aggressive". His past record shows that rapists don't care about the age of their victims, any vulnerable female is fair prey.
Quote:
Published October 05, 2010
Trucker convicted of raping Saint Martin's University student, 20
JEREMY PAWLOSKI; Staff writer
A Thurston County jury has convicted a former long-haul trucker of a stun-gun assault and rape of a Saint Martin's University student in Lacey in April 2008.
The jury convicted Richard Duane Bunch, 51, of first-degree rape, first-degree kidnapping and first-degree robbery after deliberating for a short time Monday following closing arguments by prosecutors and Bunch’s court-appointed attorney.
Bunch, who is serving a 10-year to life prison sentence for a rape of a 13-year-old developmentally disabled girl in Nevada, faces up to 25 additional years in prison when he is sentenced for the Lacey rape, Chief Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Jon Tunheim said Monday.
Bunch has an additional pending rape case he is scheduled to stand trial for in Kittitas County. Bunch is accused of raping a 9-year-old girl at Central Washington University in Ellensburg.
Bunch’s sentencing for the rape of the Saint Martin’s University student is scheduled for Nov. 17, Tunheim said.
The rape of the Saint Martin’s student occurred on April 2, 2008, when a 20-year-old woman was walking in a wooded area near campus. She was attacked and subdued by a man who shocked her repeatedly with a stun gun. The suspect threatened to kill her during the rape, which occurred during broad daylight.
After Monday’s verdict, jury foreman Tom Coleman said the evidence against Bunch in the rape of the Saint Martin’s student was “just really overwhelming.” It included the victim’s stolen iPod and a stun gun found in a truck Bunch had been driving for Gordon Trucking when he was arrested in August 2008.
Other evidence included a sketch of the suspect in the Saint Martin’s rape by a Lacey police sketch artist. The sketch bore an “uncanny resemblance” to Bunch, Coleman said.
A DNA sample from Bunch matched the attacker’s DNA that had been taken after the student’s rape, court papers state.
Coleman credited the prosecution and police for building a solid case against Bunch. Bunch did not take the witness stand during the trial.
“We think we’ve really done justice and got a bad guy off the street,” Coleman said on behalf of the jury. Bunch appeared to show no remorse during the trial, Coleman added.
Bunch was arrested in Pierce County in August 2008, on suspicion of raping a 13-year-old developmentally disabled girl in Washoe County, Nevada. Bunch was accused in Nevada of approaching the 13-year-old at the Sparks Marina, near Reno, in July 2008, about two months after the rape in Lacey. They swam briefly before he lured her into his truck by asking if she wanted to watch a movie, according to Washoe County authorities.
After Bunch’s arrest in Pierce County, Lacey Police Detective Steve Brooks was looking at a news website for a Seattle TV station and saw Bunch’s photo in a news story about Bunch’s arrest in connection with the Nevada rape. He noticed that Bunch’s photo closely resembled a police artist’s sketch of the suspect in the then-unsolved Saint Martin’s rape case.
On Monday, Tunheim, who led the prosecution during Bunch’s trial, credited Brooks with excellent police work in seeing the resemblance of Bunch’s face in the photo with the face in the police artist’s sketch. Tunheim added that Lacey Police Detective Jeremy Knight also did a great job of leading the subsequent investigation.
“This result can be attributed to some very fine police work by the Lacey Police Department,” Tunheim said. Bunch’s conviction by the Thurston County jury “is going to ensure that he’s not going to be out on the streets for a very long time,” Tunheim added.
http://www.theolympian.com/2010/10/05/1392757/trucker-convicted-of-raping-student.html
@firefly,
Quote:in other words, we are talking about instances where the inability to appropriately control sexually aggressive behaviors goes beyond acceptable bounds and is considered criminal.
It would seem that Firefly that you hate and fear men to the point you can not tell the difference between 99.9999 of the male population and .00001 that would attack women in an apartment building.
In your view a large fraction of the total male population are evil predators just waiting and watching for some defenseless woman to cross their path.
That why posters randomly threatening males with prison if they misbehaver on college campus is view by you as useful tool instead of an unwarranted insult to the vast majority of the men on colleges campuses.
Of course you need that one in four rape silliness to be correct to justify your judgment of men do you not?
In my layman opinion you could benefit from mental help therapy.
It is interesting to note that both of the trolls, throughout this entire thread, have persisted in discussing the topic of rape from the perspective of the threat to men posed by the rape laws, and the behavior of those females who allege they were raped. Neither of them has displayed any awareness that the real victims of rape are overwhelmingly females who have been subjected to sexual assaults by men. Neither of them has even commented on what might compel some males to act in such a hurtful, harmful, degrading manner toward females, or what other men could do to help address the problem of rape.
Instead they attack women who do try to look at the problem of rape, who try to educate people about already existing rape laws, and who want to see survivors helped and rapists punished.
Both trolls have tried to diminish or deny the frequency or prevalence of rape, by claiming statistics are inflated, women are lying about being raped, and that a lot of what is legally considered rape, particularly date rape, is just "normal" male behavior. They have ludicrously claimed that so called "rape feminists" exaggerate the crime of rape so they can create more victims. Why anyone would want to create a false impression about the impact of rape on women's lives is as absurd as claiming that cancer statistics are being inflated to drum up more business for oncologists. Unfortunately, both rape and cancer are realities of life for both men and women, both can have devastating impacts on lives, and neither is going away by putting one's head in the sand and pretending they don't exist, or exist only in a way that does not affect most people. Just as a woman never knows whether she will be affected by cancer during her lifetime, she also does not know whether she will become another rape statistic--all women might be affected by either or both of those things. Informing people about the dangers of rape, the various types of rapes, possible ways of preventing rapes, urging support and treatment for rape survivors, and urging greater awareness and public response to the problem, isn't any more "anti-male" than informing people about cancer, at least if one views the issue rationally.
But the trolls aren't reasonable or rational. They don't want to even discuss the problem of rape. They've used the topic of rape, in this thread, to sound the alarm about what women are doing to men. Women can't be trusted! Innocent men have been sitting in prisons for decades because women lied about being raped! Rape laws have been written by feminists to deliberately ensnare men and throw them in jail! All untrue statements and bogus scare tactics, to make men suspicious of women, to discredit victims of rape, and to make men worry unnecessarily that the rape laws are out to get them. These guys don't like women, and they are using the topic of sexual assaults on women, to make their own assaults on the integrity of the entire female gender. Nice going, fellas.
And, they are baldfaced liars, without an ounce of shame about it. In one of his most recent lying posts, one of the trolls warned men about mandatory reporting, mandatory arrests, and mandatory prosecution of any date rape that a person hears someone else mention--and he told all men that the violation of the rape laws would guarantee them an "express ticket to the slammer". And he further asserted that women, presumably all women, have no choice in whether their rapes are reported and prosecuted.
Really? If that were true, then most rapists would, in fact, be arrested and convicted, and anyone in his right mind knows that is not the case. Most rapists are not arrested and convicted. Rapists commit their crimes with impunity because the probability of arrest and conviction is so low.
There is no mandatory reporting of rapes--and certainly not of date rapes. Only the statutory rapes of children, and sexual abuse of the elderly requires that state designated mandated reporters (doctors, nurses, teachers,etc.) inform authorities of such crimes when they come to their attention. If an 18 year old college student tells her roommate that her date raped her while she was drunk, that roommate is under no legal obligation to tell anyone else about it. And no adult woman is being forced to report her own rape. The troll was out and out lying.
While the trolls quibble with statistics, supplied by reputable sources like the U.S. Justice Department, and accuse other posters of lying by even mentioning such statistics, they themselves tell baldfaced lies, like the mandatory reporting and arrest nonsense, that are complete fabrications, in malicious efforts to falsely frighten men about what women and rape laws can do to them. They do all men, and women, a terrible disservice with such garbage.
And, since the trolls cannot contribute to the discussion of rape in any meaningful or logical way, they persist in posting mainly to disrupt and derail the thread, with constant reiteration of their anti-female propaganda, numerous sexist remarks, and insults lodged at virtually all other posters, both male and female, who are actually trying to discuss the topic of rape. Pathetically, baiting others to respond to them, by making deliberately outrageous comments, seems to be their final main tactic to gain attention, and, thankfully, the "ignore" button and the "thumbs down" easily defeats those futile efforts.
But we really should acknowledge that the trolls have served some useful purpose here. They have exposed the sexist attitudes that facilitate the rape myths and rape apologies that contribute to victims blaming and shaming themselves, and that make rape difficult to report and prosecute, and rape convictions hard to obtain. It's a rather dubious distinction, but they have served some purpose.
@firefly,
Quote:It is interesting to note that both of the trolls, throughout this entire thread, have persisted in discussing the topic of rape from the perspective of the threat to men posed by the rape laws, and the behavior of those females who allege they were raped. Neither of them has displayed any awareness that the real victims of rape are overwhelmingly females who have been subjected to sexual assaults by men
Bullshit, we are both aware and have both voiced support for continuing to address the real rape cases as we are now...real rape being the physically forceful violation of an orifice. What I object to is the unreasonable expansion of the rape definition, how sex law is being used to depower men, how the rape feminist's peddle the rape scare fantasy for their own benefit and to the american people allowing ourselves to be swindled into giving up our individual rights the the fear up approach used by women's pressure groups as they make their power grab.
Quote:There is no mandatory reporting of rapes--
Bullshit, mandatory reporting laws routinely cover domestic violence, which considering how few rapes are stranger rape we know that most rape can be labeled domestic violence. There are also laws and policies in some cases which demand that all health care personal report suspected sexual assault, even in cases where the presumed victim is over 18 yo. We also know that the mandatory reporting laws are in a period of rapid expansion, if there is not a mandatory reporting law that effectively covers rape in you area now there likely will be one soon,
@firefly,
Firefly being anti-male is not the same as being pro-female something you seem not to understand.
Now dear as far as aiding rape victims harming innocent men are not at all likely to aid rape victims in that apartment building or anywhere else for that matter.
Declaring that adult women have zero responsibility concerning their own sexual behaviors under the voluntary influences of drugs or alcohol and that men are instead the ones who are completely responsibly is in no way helping rape victims or for that matter others dating women.
Putting out and defending grossly incorrect statistics on sexual assaults on college campuses is not going to help rape victims or others women.
Insulting the vast numbers of loving and honorable men with labeling them as at very best Predators in waiting is not going to aid rape victims.
Destroying all the normal level of trust between men and women is going to do far far more harm to not only rape victims but all other women then any possible good.
Other then all the above you are on the right path Firefly.
@hawkeye10,
Current domestic violence laws is another fine example of treating women as children that need protection even if they are very clear they do not wish that protection.
One of the thing that I love is that if the police arrest one or the other for such a crime the court will normally order even a married couple not to even talk to each other even over the phone or internet even it both parties does not wish for such an order.
Then both will need to drag lawyers into court to ask the judge to allow them contact.
The mayor of New York once got mad at his wife for ridiculing him for having a problem with opening a cardboard box of tea and he throw it in her direction as a result.
It ended up hitting her and leaving a small red mark on her face.
For this high crime there was a court order issue that they could not communicate and when both showed up in court to get this order lifted the state fought both of them to try to keep the order in place.
To made my position clear I have no problem with such an order if either party wish for it.
No problem either with a temporary no physical contact again both parties will if the state can show a great likelihood of ongoing physical harm but a no communication order seem way overreaching.
@BillRM,
Quote:Current domestic violence laws is another fine example of treating women as children that need protection even if they are very clear they do not wish that protection
Another thing that is shows is how the subject is misunderstood. When we talk about rape people still think that we are talking about a guy physically overwhelming a woman and sticking his dick in a hole, but that is now just a tiny sliver of what rape is. When we talk about domestic violence people think that we are talking about a guy throwing punches at his wife or GF, when that is just a tiny sliver of what domestic violence is. Look at the dang definition, we are just about to the point where giving your ex GF the stink eye is domestic violence,both the acts and the actors have been so expanded and made so inclusive that we have expanded what is criminal by many multiples. So long as people believe that there are loads of women getting punched everyday who can not or will not do anything about this intrusion into our lives, this assault on individual rights, is accepted as needed. But are the alleged multitudes helpless battered women real? Even if they are is sacrificing our rights justified? If we are going to give up our rights in the name of helping helpless women can we hold onto our rights for any other purpose.....because I don't think so. I think that once we demonstrate that our rights are not sacrosanct, once we voluntarily give them up, that they are gone for good.
Fear works, and the feminists saw this when fear of crime and fear of drugs and fear of child predators was used to roll over the Americans citizens, and they decided to go back to the well one more time. But in this case I dont think that the thing feared is even anywhere near as prevalent as is claimed. The difference this time is unlike for crime, drugs, and child predators there is a group that is actively spreading lies to further there own power. I think that in the earlier cases of fear based idiotic law making that the way we got into trouble was more organic, less a manipulation of a single actor grabbing for themselves.
Actually, what this reminds me of most is the sales job for the invasion of Iraq, which was a very expensive blunder that cost us time, lives, credibility and a boatload of money....in the pursuit of destructive aggression based upon a lie.
Dumb Troll was kind enough to post this quote
Quote: Some of the common terms used to describe intimate partner violence are domestic abuse, spouse abuse, courtship violence, battering, marital rape, and date rape" (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC], 2003)
Dumbo just acknowledged that date rape is an example of "intimate partner violence"--from a source he regards as reputable.
Throughout this thread that same Dumb Troll has argued that date rape isn't "real rape". He cites the date rape ("No means no") laws as examples of those unfair, anti-sex laws that are designed to entrap men and throw them in jail, and he wants to get rid of them. I mean, isn't being able to rape your date, part of the fun of "conquest"? That's the way this troll sees it--he just doesn't want it called "rape" so he won't get arrested.
I guess the dumb jerk just proved he was wrong--with his own quote.
Date rape is real rape...Date Rape laws are intended to deter sexual assaults and sexual violence toward women. The laws stay.
This is a good example of why police need to publicize names and photos of suspected rapists. Rapists tend to repeat their crimes. People who were previously victimized by them, but never reported the crime, often come forward after an arrest, even if it is to only support the current victim. In this case, a former girlfriend of the rapist came forward to report that, toward the end of their relationship, he turned violent and raped her--a
date rape.
Quote:
Second woman alleges rape by Watsonville/Gilroy man, police report
By Cathy Kelly
10/05/2010
WATSONVILLE -- After reading in the news that a man had been arrested for allegedly raping a teen girl, a second woman came forward reporting similar charges, police announced Tuesday.
Lamar James Lucero, 30, of Gilroy and Watsonville, was arrested Sept. 28 after a two-month investigation into his relationship with a 16-year-old girl. Police say he befriended her and then manipulated and threatened her into performing various sex acts, during a relationship spanning about one year.
Those acts occurred at a home in Watsonville and at his home in Gilroy, police said.
The teen reported the crimes and Lucero was booked on suspicion of rape, unlawful sexual intercourse, oral copulation and penetration with a foreign object, police say. Bail was set at $100,000.
After the arrest was reported, an adult came forward and told police Lucero had become sexually aggressive and raped her in 2009, Sgt. Saul Gonzalez said.
The unidentified woman ended the relationship and gained the courage to report the incident when she heard of his arrest last week, Gonzalez said.
That report will make it more likely future women will be protected, he said.
"I've seen it numerous times; we arrest someone for one incident and release his picture or story and people feel empowered to come forward," he said. "They don't do that necessarily for themselves, or even know if it's relevant or is a crime since time has passed, but they want to help the current victim." Lucero was arrested at the Santa Cruz County Courthouse on Monday, where he was being arraigned on the first arrest, Gonzalez said. He was arrested again with bail set at $100,000, he said.
He posted bail, Gonzalez said.
Last week, jail records listed Lucero as a Cal Fire employee; Monday's record lists him as a laborer. Gonzalez believes he is unemployed.
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_16261360?nclick_check=1
@firefly,
Quote:Date rape is real rape...Date Rape laws are intended to deter sexual assaults and sexual violence toward women
"Date Rape" is the same as "hate crime", bad law that should not exist and in fact should be found unconstitutional. The crime is the action, not guesses towards the motivation for the action, nor the relationship between the aggressor and the transgressed upon. It was fair for the law to consider the level of premeditation for actions when deciding the severity of it, because people are human and sometimes they snap and this is not as bad as when a person is pure evil. But we decided that we had the right and need to dig further into the mind of the offender, and there we made a mistake.
Date rape law was made not to further justice, but as an attempt to alter public perception of sexual aggression, for the further acceptance of the feminist agenda. The mission of the law is not to manipulate the citizen into desired perceptions and beliefs, this is actually a subversion of the law, and in the end the law will pay because each time the law is used to push agenda's the law losses credibility as a vehicle for justice. It is now clear that the law's original intent to administer justice now competes with other intents, it is now less about justice than it used to me.
This is the exact same mistake we made with education, we watered down the original intent as we tried to use the institution for other things, and as we did so we weakened our ability to educate. Our nation is failing apart and it all started with ruining our education system, and now we are fine with doing the same thing with our legal system because we are apparently too dumb to learn from our mistakes.
