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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
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hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 02:24 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
As an engineer, I need some solid information that a change in a critical system will be for a large and needed improvement before tearing the old system apart and replacing it
So decades of poor operation, when you can look across the pond to see Europe doing something else with much better results, is not enough to convince you to give the European way a try?? What you have is crap, you have spent decades trying to fix it...how long does it take you to give up and go with a different but proven system?

This is foolish pride that you are speaking of.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 02:47 pm
Quote:

Making Masculinity Visible to Sexual Violence…
Mon, 30 Aug 2010 - 12:22 | Reprinted from Strong Silent Types More articles about: Violence
Cowburn, M. (2010). Invisible men: Social reactions to male sexual coercion – bringing men and masculinities into community safety and public policy Critical Social Policy, 30 (2), 225-244 DOI: 10.1177/0261018309358308

Most of us are prepared to accept that men perpetrate most sexual violence (the lunatics in the men’s rights movement, notwithstanding). However, as Cowburn (2010) illustrates, the majority of prison treatment programs for sex offenders neither take account of the issues of gender and masculinity nor their potential positive role in the rehabilitation process (p.229). By omitting these essential considerations, these programs stymie any possible, worthwhile ‘behavioural and attitudinal change’ (2010, p.230). Cowburn (2010) argues, and I would concur, that we need to understand how and why men behave ‘as men’ (p.230) when it comes to sexual violence. ‘We’ here, I would think, should as much refer to sexual offenders as it does to everyone else in the community.

Male violence, including male sexual violence, retains a disturbingly high level of acceptability within the community. That most sexual offences are perpetrated by ‘men who kn[e]w their victims’ (2010, p.230) means that we are seldom talking about ‘stranger danger’ out there but rather, our boyfriends, partners, husbands, fathers, brothers, uncles, teachers, priests, coaches, and so forth (2010, pp.233-234). Men we know, men we respect, men who we might love and care for. To at once revere and be repulsed by someone who you might have been close to, perhaps for your entire life, cannot fail to generate extraordinary emotional tensions. Moreover, it begs the question, how could any man sexually abuse anyone to whom he would claim to be close?

Cowburn (2010) refers to several mechanisms by which we, as a community, obviate addressing the reality of male sexual violence. One of those mechanisms is ‘denial’ (2010, pp.233-234). Because the reality is so shocking, and the extent of the problem so great, we alternatively focus on a discrete, stereotypical subset: the ‘evil, sick’ (2010, p.234) sexual predator who in no way corrupts the sanctity of family, church, school, etc. Indeed, that stereotypical male perpetrator bolsters our misplaced faith in the safety that we might expect from the aforementioned institutions. Sexual violence, thus, remains a hugely hidden problem, with reporting rates exponentially lower than what is really happening behind closed doors (2010, pp.230-231).

We will not affect a much-needed decline in sexual violence so long as we refuse to acknowledge the actual characteristics of the problem (2010, p.237). That must include, according to Cowburn (2010), critical reflection upon the strong links between dominant forms of masculinity and male violence against women (p.240). Too many men continue to hold if not also practice the most despicable, misogynistic behaviours and attitudes, for example, that ‘sexual aggression is normal’, that ‘sexual relationships involve game playing’, that ‘men should dominate women’ and that ‘women are responsible for rape’ (2010, p.231). These behaviours and attitudes are so ingrained in our collective mindset that we can sometimes forget that they are not biologically given…
http://www.xyonline.net/content/making-masculinity-visible-sexual-violence%E2%80%A6
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 02:52 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
We will not affect a much-needed decline in sexual violence so long as we refuse to acknowledge the actual characteristics of the problem

...in a nutshell
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 02:52 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Moreover, it begs the question, how could any man sexually abuse anyone to whom he would claim to be close?
the answer is that what is called abuse is not abuse, it is normal human sexuality. Aggression is a major part of masculinity, and this aggression has always and always will be played out in the erotic. It was and is the masculines duty to be as sure as he can that this aggression will be well received by the feminine.

The feminists of course what to use law to banish this aggression. This is not going to happen. We will throw out the feminists before we throw away who we are.
panzade
 
  3  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 03:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Aggression is a major part of masculinity, and this aggression has always and always will be played out in the erotic.


This is where we disagree. I see no reason why male aggression has to be played out in the erotic and why females should bear the brunt of the violence of this aggression.
Your fear of male emasculation is unfounded and more importantly, misplaced.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 03:19 pm
@panzade,
Quote:
I see no reason why male aggression has to be played out in the erotic and why females should bear the brunt of the violence of this aggression.
You have the power to choose not to partake of the traditional dance between the masculine and feminine. I maintain however that you don't have the right to demand that I do, don't have the right to criminalize it. We still do it even though it is a criminal act, but I now have less respect for our laws and our government than I did before. By overstepping its bounds and demanding the right to judge my erotic life the Government has pushed me towards a desire to remove my consent from the Government.
Arella Mae
 
  3  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 03:27 pm
Copy the following into your browser:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/search/?q=nambla&init=quick&sid=0.26102639987957166

Then scroll down to past the pictures where it says: Welcome to NAMBLA's Home Page and click on it and this will appear:

Quote:
Sorry
The link you are trying to visit has been reported as abusive by Facebook users. To learn more about staying safe on the internet, visit our Security Page. You can also check out the malware and phishing Wikipedia articles.


Kudos for Facebook getting them off of there!
JustBrooke
 
  4  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 03:38 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

Just stop Bill. I don't want to talk to you okay? I don't understand cold people like you. I try too hard to understand you and I get sick and upset. Please, just leave us all alone!


I don't have much time but wanted to comment on this quick. Sweet Arella, you have a very soft, caring heart. You are NEVER going to be able to understand the likes of bill or hawk. Do yourself a favor and put them on ignore or thumb them down or do both, but you HAVE to do this WITHOUT reading their crap. That's all it is....CRAP. Everyone knows it, but them. Don't waste your time reading it. No one has to comment on it because they have done a good enough job of exposing themselves. They no longer need any help from us.

I have no idea if bill is really as dumb as he acts. The problem is, he acts dumber than a box of Palin's. Hell, I dunno. Maybe the ole' coot has Alzheimer's. We all know what hawk's problem is. Toss their ass under the bus and ignore the idiots.

I never read a word of their idiocy anymore. Try it. You'll like it! Wink

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panzade
 
  3  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 03:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
You have the power to choose not to partake of the traditional dance between the masculine and feminine.

Our concepts of this "traditional" dance seem to differ.

Quote:
I maintain however that you don't have the right to demand that I do(not partake of this traditional dance)


Just Brooke was very clear when she stated that as long as females didn't lose control(of this dance) and weren't coerced into dancing more than they intended due to the size and aggression of the male, there was no harm no foul.

Quote:
By overstepping its bounds and demanding the right to judge my erotic life the Government has pushed me towards a desire to remove my consent from the Government.


If your erotic life leads to a life of fear and physical damage to your partner , then we must have laws to remove you from society.
If your erotic life has no victims, you have nothing to fear from Big Government.

Unfortunately there are a tremendous number of males in our society whose erotic needs include victimizing children, females and other men.

They are primarily able to get away with it because of their size, strength and aggression. This long thread has been very clear in the calling for a reassessment and solution to the causes of this epidemic.
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panzade
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 04:27 pm
@BillRM,
Buddy, I don't need to pump up numbers. I've helped build a battered wife shelter whose location is secret for obvious reasons.
Every firehouse in my city is a safe place for battered women as is every library.
Take a stroll around your town once in a while.
OCCOM BILL
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 04:33 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
If your erotic life leads to a life of fear and physical damage to your partner , then we must have laws to remove you from society.
If your erotic life has no victims, you have nothing to fear from Big Government.


After reading firefly wish list, I do not see too many males buying into the no fear from big brother nonsense if she and others such get their ways.

Second removing one or two percent of the males from society is one thing trying to do so to any larger group and you likely to find out about male aggressiveness up close and personal.
Laughing Ooh… up close and personal, says the demented coward. Watch out Panz! Laughing

What’s he gonna do? Send an electronic punch from his anonymous avatar? It should be clear by now that the reason these cowards think they need to be aggressive with women is it’s the only other time they can make believe they're real tough guys without getting their cowardly asses kicked. Could anyone be more pathetic?
0 Replies
 
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 06:13 pm
@JustBrooke,
JustBrooke wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:

Just stop Bill. I don't want to talk to you okay? I don't understand cold people like you. I try too hard to understand you and I get sick and upset. Please, just leave us all alone!


I don't have much time but wanted to comment on this quick. Sweet Arella, you have a very soft, caring heart. You are NEVER going to be able to understand the likes of bill or hawk. Do yourself a favor and put them on ignore or thumb them down or do both, but you HAVE to do this WITHOUT reading their crap. That's all it is....CRAP. Everyone knows it, but them. Don't waste your time reading it. No one has to comment on it because they have done a good enough job of exposing themselves. They no longer need any help from us.

I have no idea if bill is really as dumb as he acts. The problem is, he acts dumber than a box of Palin's. Hell, I dunno. Maybe the ole' coot has Alzheimer's. We all know what hawk's problem is. Toss their ass under the bus and ignore the idiots.

I never read a word of their idiocy anymore. Try it. You'll like it! Wink


I got upset because of that book and let it get in the way of my judgment about reading what they said. I am doing my best to not let that happen again. Good to see you. How are you? How is your friend? If you ever want to talk you can always message me.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 07:14 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

This case, I posted about before, began today with opening arguments in the first trial. There will be separate trials for what was done to each of the child incest victims. This is such an unusual case I might post regular updates so we can follow the progress of the trials.
Quote:
Opening remarks begin in NJ father's rape trial
By SAMANTHA HENRY (AP) – 1 hour ago
September 28, 2010

PATERSON, N.J. — Prosecutors said Tuesday that a man accused of raping and impregnating his daughters believed God was commanding him to create a pure family bloodline, while the defense urged jurors to keep an open mind amid the "fantastic" details they would hear.

Jurors, who had only been briefed that they would be dealing with a sex assault trial that involved incest, sat rapt during opening arguments in state superior court in Paterson.

The Associated Press generally doesn't identify victims of sexual crimes and is not reporting the name of the man or his wife — who is scheduled to testify — to protect the identities of their children, who are now over 18.

The man, who was arrested in 2006 and ruled competent to stand trial earlier this year, faces 27 charges including sexual assault, lewdness, child endangerment and criminal sexual contact. He has pleaded not guilty to all charges.

Tuesday marked the start of the first of five separate trials, one per child victim. The man is accused of raping five of his daughters and impregnating three of them.

The proceedings were briefly delayed Tuesday when the defendant, through his lawyer, accused the judge of taking $100,000 from a New York City lawyer to bring charges against him.

The judge said the claim had no merit and said he had only recently learned of the case after inheriting it from another judge.

The trial was also delayed last week after the defendant told the judge he had been assaulted by a prisoner during transport. A court-ordered examination found no evidence of assault.

Because the trials will be held separately, the judge ruled earlier this year that jurors can hear testimony about the home atmosphere but not specific allegations of sexual abuse that pertain to the other cases.

Authorities say the assaults began in the mid-1980s and lasted until 2002, when the parents separated, and occurred at residences in Paterson, East Orange, Orange and Eatontown. Prosecutors say the man ordered all his children to be born at home to remain undocumented, deprived them of food and medical care, kept them out of school and threatened them with death if they told anyone.

Lisa Squitieri, the Passaic County prosecutor handling the case, warned jurors in her opening statements that she would not be mincing words when it came to the types of sexual abuse the victim in the first case endured.

"You're going to hear about a very sad case ... where a child was betrayed by her father and not protected by her mother," Squitieri said. "She grew up in a home where she watched her mother and siblings be physically and mentally abused. If that wasn't enough, at 8 years old, (she) had to endure something no child should ever, ever, ever have to go through."

The defendant's lawyer, Daryl Pennington, urged the jurors to keep an open mind and uphold the justice system's core ideal that his client is innocent until proven guilty.

"All the fantastic stories you may hear, and all the gory details — it could be like going to a horror movie on a Friday night — this is not going to go away," he said. "But remember, we're talking about people's lives here, (my client's) life, your lives, certainly my life will be impacted by this case."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iBDFz1E4v1FYA6j3irsG9wYuwefQD9IH2LL03?docId=D9IH2LL03

I just don't get why they can't have testimony about the other abuse in the home? It goes to proving what he does! I never did understand that in court cases.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 07:24 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:

I just don't get why they can't have testimony about the other abuse in the home? It goes to proving what he does! I never did understand that in court cases.


Because they've chosen to do this as separate trials, they want the abuse toward each child considered separately by the jury, without being influenced by what he did to the other children. That's actually fairer to the father. If he raped 5 women outside his home, he'd have 5 different trials, and they wouldn't generally allow evidence from one case to be presented at another because it might be considered "prejudicial".

And, listen to Brooke--don't bother reading anything Hawkeye and BillRM are posting. It's not worth your time and just gets you aggravated. And they haven't been on topic the entire thread, so it's not like they might say something relevant.
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 07:43 pm
@firefly,
I know it is supposed to be more fair to the father but I don't think it is right. I have never thought it was right that prior acts, etc., could not be brought into account. Maybe I really need to research it and maybe I can understand it better.

Who is Bill and Hawkeye? Razz
 

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