Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@firefly,

Quote:

Because the man may be drunk too, and not thinking about the consequences, or not even care about them. But the man is responsible for his behavior, drunk or sober, and without full, conscious, freely willing consent from the woman, the act is rape.

LOL so a man is fully responsible for his behavior under the influence however a woman is somehow not similarly responsible for her behavior under the influence.

I love the double standard stated for all to see by Firefly.

Second, note the laws are not there yet for such strict liability so tell me once more how you do not wish to change the laws.

Third note, the rape laws need to be as sex neutral as possible to pass court challenges so how are you Feminists planning on getting this double standard by the courts?

If you need freely given consent for sex from both parties and neither are able to grant consent to the other at the time of sexual intercourse then logic if not commonsense would indicate that both the man and the woman are guilty of rape to the same degree.

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Hawkeye I do not know about you but I have three male grandchildren that going to need to face the brave new world that Firefly and her like is trying to created for all of us.

At least this weekend I found out that number four grandchild will be a female so she will not need to run the risks the others three are going to be facing during their courtships years.

If it get too bad maybe the best course is to try to go back to the past and get them married right out of high school as this is going to be like walking through a mine field for our young men every time they are alone with a female.

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@OCCOM BILL,

OCCOM BILL wrote:

Could anyone really be as stupid as BillRM portrays himself to be?

Just read any post from him on any thread and there should be little doubt.

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Two more cases of incest/rape in the news...

Quote:

Former Las Crucen Accused Of Sexual Assault With Young Family Member
September 27, 2010

LAS CRUCES, N.M. -- Police have charged a former Las Crucen with raping a young family member multiple times.

David Juarez Carbajal, 56, who now lives in Houston, Texas, was charged with 13 counts of criminal sexual penetration of a child under 13 and one count of incest, said Las Cruces Police Department spokesman Dan Trujillo.

Detectives learned that Carbajal, while living in Las Cruces in 2002, molested a young female relative when she was under the age of 10, said Trujillo. Authorities believe Carbajal molested the girl for at least six years until the time he was arrested on unrelated charges, said Trujillo.

Carbajal was arrested in Houston over the weekend and is in the custody of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. He has already waived extradition back to Las Cruces.

The victim now lives with foster parents.

Bond for Carbajal is set at $100,000 cash.
http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/25182397/detail.html

Quote:

Man sentenced after admitting to incest, child rape
By News Sentinel staff
Friday, September 24, 2010

CLINTON - A 26-year-old Lenoir City man was sentenced today in Anderson County Criminal Court to 10 years in prison for pleas to three counts of incest and three counts of attempted child rape.

The incidents occurred over three years starting in 2006, when the victim, a stepdaughter at the time, was 8 years old, court records indicate.

The defendant was ordered to pay court costs, comply with Sexual Offender Registry guidelines, have no unsupervised contact with any child under 18 and remain on community supervision for life.

He was also ordered to pay $14,883 in court costs.

The News Sentinel doesn't identify sex crime victims, and naming the defendant could do so. The man has been in the Anderson County Jail since April 2009.http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/sep/24/man-sentenced-after-admitting-incest-child-rape/

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
GO FIND IT YOURSELF. I DON'T LIKE YOU. I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU. I JUST GOT SICK THAT YOU EVEN STILL SHOW UP AT ALL.

If the posting would have shown me in a bad light you would had posted it in a heartbeat as we all know.

The very fact that you are not willing to post it is enough of an indication to me that the story did not relate to her.

Another case where Bill almost writes in normal English. Maybe he is sober.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Hawkeye I do not know about you but I have three male grandchildren that going to need to face the brave new world that Firefly and her like is trying to created for all of us.

We shall see. There are finally a good number of people who are willing to take the rape feminists on, who are demanding equality and justice. The Violence against Women act, the primary source of funding for the rape feminists, is up for renewal (it is every 5 years) and this time there is serious objection to the feminists agenda. We shall see how it turns out. The word I hear is that everyone is quiet right now because their is no consensus about what to do. Obviously my school wants it renamed and wants the funding to be at least partly diverted away from the rape feminists towards activists who are more fair and objective.

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This is an interesting case. The 15 year old girl made up a lie about being gang raped to cover up shame and embarrassment about having consensual sex with a man she met on the internet. Her lie wasted police resources and manpower as well as taxpayers dollars, and she should receive some punishment for filing a false complaint. However, since the girl is a minor, the adult who did have sex with her would be guilty of statutory rape (either a misdemeanor or felony depending on his age), as well as using the internet to lure a minor for sexual favors--so a crime did actually occur in this case, and it might lead to putting an internet predator in jail.

The police sound like they did a great job in this case. They followed through on the girl's complaint with a thorough investigation, and expedited the DNA evidence, and they have said they will do the same with any similar complaints in the future. They also appear to have gotten the girl to admit her lie after only 72 hours. Now they are going after the man who did have sex with the girl, and they are pretty sure they will find him. All in all, you couldn't ask for better police handling of a rape complaint.

Now the school better give all the students some stern lectures about how wrong it is to lie to the police, particularly about something like rape, remind them of statutory rape laws, and drum some sense into their heads about the very real dangers of arranging sexual encounters with men they meet on the internet, or arranging any sort of meeting with strangers that way. This girl is very lucky she wasn't the victim of a kidnapping or a very violent assault--something like that could have easily happened from her online hook-up.

Quote:

Another city another hoax- 15-year-old not gang raped in San Diego
September 27th, 2010
Kimberly Dvorak

In an astonishing turn of events a 15-year-old girl of Hispanic origin who claimed she was gang raped after school in San Diego on Friday now tells detectives she was scared and ashamed about meeting a man online and having consensual sex with him.

After an extensive investigation that consisted of numerous interviews and lasted more than 72 hours, Sheriff’s detectives finally procured the truth from the high school sophomore. Captain Sherri Sarro said at a late afternoon press conference that the girl had been remorseful and said she lied because “she was embarrassed, ashamed and afraid.”

Regardless of the consensual nature of the act, authorities say the adult male is on the hook for several crimes like luring a minor for sexual favors online, statutory rape and depending on his age a misdemeanor or if there is a 10-year-age difference he will face felony charges. In either case the male will be tagged as a sexual predator the rest of his life.

On the other hand the minor could possibly face a few charges herself; lying to police, filing a fake police report and be billed for a case that cost law enforcement tens of thousands dollars to investigate.

Spokesperson for the San Diego Sheriff Department, Jan Caldwell knew the case would be solved correctly in the end. “Our detectives are pros at what they do.”

An event that rocked the small north county community for days have parents breathing a sigh of relief; “At the very least this opens the door for parental conversations about safety and the perils of lying,” said Carol Smith a parent of a son who attends San Dieguito High School where the alleged event occurred.

It is now being reported by the Sheriff Department that, “the suspect, an adult, convinced the victim to meet him at school.” It was also reported the student skipped the last class of the day to meet the adult male where they went to an undisclosed location for sex.

After the sexual assault concluded the male suspect returned the 15-year-old girl to the school grounds where the victim’s mother was searching for her daughter.

“The investigation is continuing, detectives are following-up on all leads in order to apprehend the suspect in this case,” according to the Sheriff Department. “The victim has apologized for creating an atmosphere of fear in the community and now realizes she should have told the truth in the beginning.”

Once word of the kidnapping and gang rape unfolded, detectives canvassed the neighborhood, expedited the DNA evidence and contacted all the sexual predators in the vicinity. Hundreds of overtime hours were logged by the investigators and in the end justice will be served a little differently than they anticipated, but authorities are confident the suspect will be apprehended soon.

Captain Sarro said their primary concern throughout this ordeal was for the victim’s safety as well as her fellow students and if a similar event happened tomorrow they would aggressively pursue the case just as they did with this fake kidnapping and gang rape.
http://www.examiner.com/county-political-buzz-in-san-diego/another-city-another-hoax-15-year-old-not-gang-raped-san-diego

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Another interesting case, also involving statutory rape..

It doesn't sound like this man was wrongly accused, as his parents claim, and he sounds guilty of more than stupidity. He was given a break and he blew it. You can't flaunt statutory rape laws, and orders of the court, and not expect the punishment to be severe. A 20 year old has no business having sex with 13 and 14 year olds, no matter how "willing" they are, unless he is "willing" to go to prison for doing it. He wasn't entitled to break the law, or to have sex with those children.

Quote:

.
Parents: Our son is not a rapist
By LEIGH HORNBECK Staff Writer
Monday, September 27, 2010

BALLSTON SPA -- The parents of a Saratoga Springs man sentenced to prison on rape charges Monday said their son was wrongly accused.

But Assistant Saratoga County District Attorney Jennifer Jensen Bergan said Cody M. Bowker is a repeat offender who behaved as if he were entitled to sex with his victims.

Bowker, 21, was sentenced to 9 1/2 years in prison for first- and second-degree rape and sexual misconduct. Bowker's victims were 16, 14 and 13 when the sexual contact occurred last year. Bowker had pleaded guilty to the charges he was sentenced for Monday.

His parents, Tammy and Tracy Bowker, said their son had consensual sex with the girls after they lied about their ages. They said the girls went to police after he found out their true ages and cut off the relationships.

"My son is guilty of stupidity, nothing else," Tracy Bowker said.

The Bowkers wrote a letter to Saratoga County Court Judge Jerry Scarano, asking for leniency. Cody Bowker was sexually abused as a child, they wrote, and later diagnosed with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.

After he graduated from high school, the letter said, he joined the U.S. Army but was released on a medical discharge. He was never in trouble with the law until his arrest last year, she said.

This is Bowker's second set of charges for sex crimes. In June of 2009, he pleaded guilty to rape in the second degree and committing a criminal sexual act. While he was awaiting sentencing on the charges, he committed a new series of crimes, including having sex with one of the victims from the first case.

The Bowkers said that when their son was charged with rape the first time, he signed a confession at the Saratoga Springs police station -- a mistake he made under pressure from the police, Tracy Bowker said.

Despite admitting to the crimes, he was sentenced to only six months in jail and 10 years of probation because the victims refused to testify against him, Jensen Bergan said. Bowker signed an order of protection when he was sentenced and agreed to stay away from his victims -- an order he violated, Jensen Bergan said.

"He was given a break, but he didn't care," she said.

Bowker's victims did not attend the sentencing.

Bowker's lawyer, Assistant Public Defender Andrew Blumenberg, said his client made wrong decisions, but he's not a predator.

Blumenberg filed a motion to argue the charges separately, which Judge Scarano denied. It was a complicated case, and Bowker was guilty of some, but not all the charges, Blumenberg said, adding that Bowker decided to plead guilty because he would have faced 20 years or more in prison if convicted at trial on the top count of rape in the first degree.

"He's an immature kid who made bad decisions. He'll be Level 3 sex offender for the rest of his life, and it's a stiff sentence," Blumenberg said.

"He knew right from wrong, and he made the wrong decision. I'm not minimizing his culpability, I just don't think he's a predator."

Bowker did not speak at his sentencing Monday.
http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Parents-Our-son-is-not-a-rapist-676574.php

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And interesting talk by a feminist who admitts the current approach of pounding on men with the law is weak in justice and in supporting victims, and who frets that feminists might be winning the battle over the law but losing the war to bring along the masses.

Quote:

The problem with mandatory interventions in
wife battering is that political recognition of this as a public
problem risks eclipsing the private interests that women, as
agents, maintain. As a response to the claim that wife battering is
a social problem that requires the state to take public
responsibility, the baby is sometimes thrown out with the bath
water. The fact that law, notably criminal law, has been used as a
major vehicle to materialize this public responsibility, only
exacerbates this dynamic. Law, as the motor of regulation based
on general rules and principles that operate within an either/or
paradigm, is by definition not well suited to address the messy
complexities of public violence in the private home.59
Secondly, this shift to defining the battered woman as a
public identity—in the United States as a legal identity60—
deserves to be analyzed in an American socio-legal context.
Maybe we are facing a typical American development given
America’s “love affair with law,” a phenomenon that is quite
striking from a Western European perspective and not as
prominently developed in Western Europe.61 Battering has
entered the public domain in the U.S. through a rights regime. In
Europe—not only in the Netherlands, but also in the U.K., where
there is even more of a rights regime than in the Netherlands,
Germany, France, or other European countries—we see a
different approach than that used in the United States. Without
wanting to sound too optimistic, in Western European countries
there is more of a balance between the legal and the social
category and the social policy strategies that the batteredwomen’s movements have pursued in trying to devise supportive
policies, such as obtaining funding for shelters and hot lines.62 In
Western Europe the issue of battering has been a much more
effective domain of socio-political struggle than in the U.S. It is
an important point to bear in mind that when reflecting on the
relevance of American feminist legal achievements in an
international context. These achievements need to be socially and
culturally contextualized. We have to assess critically how
successful the political strategy has been to focus on legalizing
the identity of the battered woman as a vehicle to gain, among
other things, political and community support, public attention,
and state intervention.
That brings me to the second and more general point: what
are the limits and the possibilities of law? In her book, Schneider
focuses on the possibilities of law. Obviously, law is an
important and sometimes necessary instrument in the sense that it
can facilitate the translation of a social problem into a subject of
public concern and even public responsibility that provides
citizens with an entitlement to public care, concern, protection or
support. Schneider’s book stimulates us to think about what we
need and want from law from a feminist social justice
perspective. In addition to important issues that Schneider raises,
we need a better understanding of the structural limitations that
are inherent in law. Law is inevitably an instrument of
governance, a powerful instrument in the hands of legislators,
administrators, governments and their representatives, deployed
in order to regulate society and its citizens. What is particularlytelling is that the legalizing tendency discussed before is so
profoundly dominated by criminal law. Is the feminist social
movement to be remembered for its influence on criminal law, as
Sanford Kadish recently indicated?63 The question then becomes,
if this is a victory, might it resemble a Pyrrhic victory, one that
implies substantial damage? The overinvestment in criminal legal
interventions within the Violence Against Women Act
(“VAWA”) and the grants that flow from VAWA—millions of
dollars going to support pilot projects and fund research into
criminal justice interventions, notably mandatory arrest, and lack
of support to the civil rights remedy—is more than just an
unfortunate side effect.64 A criminal rights regime is by definition
focused on control and punishment. It might reflect a tendency
that represents the increasingly punitive attitude toward social ills
and problems that is prominent in the United States.65 Domesticviolence is more the subject of post-hoc, mostly criminal legal
interventions and control of perpetrators than of prevention or
support of victims.66
We need to be aware of the limits of law, as well as of its
contradictory effects, when it comes to bringing about social
transformation, or bringing about social justice, in this case for
battered women. Schneider’s work points out consistently that
law, most notably criminal law, is not an easy tool with which to
work. Its accessibility is limited, and, as Sally Merry mentioned
already, lawyering in this domain is problematic. The legal
process itself brings about many subversions of the original
intentions of the law. From that perspective the term “feminist
lawmaking,” although relevant on a descriptive level, sounds
somewhat optimistic. The law in this domain does not just
provide rights as trumps to be cashed in while struggling against
violence against women and for social justice. Rights are equally,
if not more, instruments to control, to monitor, and to subject the
rights bearers to a regime that constitutes legal identities that do
not necessarily serve the interests of the rights bearers who are
initially looking for support. In this domain there are many
compelling examples of how laws subvert their intended support.
The “battered woman’s syndrome,”67 for example, is a very
clear example, as are mandatory arrest laws. The term “feminist
lawmaking” as the project that motivates this book pictures
leading developments in this field as a politically emancipatoryproject. In doing so, it pictures the law from a slightly modernist
perspective as a mechanism that brings about progress. Laws in
the domain of battering certainly bring a civilizing message that it
is morally wrong and illegal. Of course, I agree with the
message. But using the law as an instrument to bring that
message across means the invocation of an instrument that
demands a considerable price. In that respect, the book appears
to reflect an optimism about what law can accomplish. This same
optimism that I read in it, seductive as it is, has inspired me to
reflect on the limitations of law and how this might be related to
politics of rights.68 From an international perspective it is
important to learn lessons from these achievements in addition to
the counterproductive effect of feminist legal struggles in the
United States and elsewhere. This book documents a crucial part
of that history and inspires us to engage in global dialogues!

RENÉE RÖMKENS is a criminologist who is Visiting Professor
in the Institute for Research on Women and Gender at Columbia
University and Associate Professor in the Department of General
Social Sciences at Utrecht University in the Netherlands. She also
holds a Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Amsterdam.
She has a long record of research in the field of domestic
violence, including the first national survey in Western Europe
(Netherlands), which she conducted in the late 1980s on
prevalence, social risk markers and psychological consequences
of violence against women. Her recent research in the United
States is in the socio-legal domain and focuses on how the powers
of law operate in a criminal justice system that increasingly
cooperates with other disciplines.
http://38.113.83.195/~/media/PDF/LawJournals/JLP_PDF/jlp_vol10ii.ashx

I know that the feminists focusing in on using the law to pound men has turn me against the feminist cause. Hell, I used to consider myself a feminist, now I want their movement killed off.

Edit: The following is exactly what I have said often on a2k. I get crucified for it

Quote:

Law, as the motor of regulation based
on general rules and principles that operate within an either/or
paradigm, is by definition not well suited to address the messy
complexities of public violence in the private home

At least one feminist expert on the law agrees with me, I take some comfort in that.

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I agree with this from Paul M. Weyrich, whom I normally don't agree with at all.

Quote:

Marc wrote that

I am sorry to inform Mr. Weyrich that the Patriot Act is not the worst of our worries here in America. The type of “wide-ranging legislation that endangers our liberties” discussed by Mr. Weyrich is already in place and has been for many years. It is the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) . . .

Congress is at present in the process of considering renewal of the VAWA, and the behavior of our elected officials (both Republican and Democrat) has been nothing short of shameful. The Senate Judiciary Committee, despite receiving an outpouring of opposition to VAWA from the public, decided that it would refuse to allow opposition witnesses to testify at its July 19th hearing on the renewal legislation. . .

What you are seeing here, Marc, is something that too few conservatives outside Washington perceive. With relatively few exceptions, Senators and Congressmen from both parties are afraid to confront political correctness. In this case, they fear that if they even allow opponents to be heard, the radical Feminists and the culturally Marxist press will say they “favor violence against women,” which is of course nonsense.

To be blunt about it, too many Washington Republicans lack moral courage. They would rather hide under a rock than be called a “racist” or a sexist” by the cultural Marxists. One thing the next conservatism needs to do, in my opinion, is make people like that pay a political price for their moral cowardice. Until we do, they will continue to sell us out.

http://kwing.christiansonnet.org/news-scrap/society_next-conservatism.htm

However, given that the people are showing signs of rising up and throwing out of office these same worthless scumbag Congressmen perhaps this time will be different. I am not holding my breath.

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Good for Sen. Al Franken! Smile

Quote:

Sen. Franken: Rape Victims Should Not Have To Pay for Their Own Rape Kits
By Robin Marty
Created Sep 27 2010 - 7:00am
By Robin Marty, RH Reality Check
September 27, 2010 -

Minnesota Senator Al Franken has spent his time in office as a staunch advocate for women's reproductive health. In the fall of 2009, Sen. Franken sponsored an amendment to a defense bill that would have de-funded military contractors who prevent rape victims from seeking justice, based on the case of Jamie Leigh Jones who was sexually attacked while working for KBR - a subsidiary of Halliburton.

Now, the Minnesota Democrat is once more taking up the cause for women who have been victims of sexual assault. Last week, Sen. Franken spoke in front of the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Drugs about the backlog of rape kits going unaddressed in police storage, and the practice of making victims pay for their own forensic evidence.

The problem is that some jurisdictions are still billing victims for the rape kits, leaving it to the victims to get reimbursed by insurers or victims' funds. And with that objection, Mr. Chairman, I would like to add to the record four articles...that document this."

To me, the real problem is that this practice is actually legal under federal law. It is legal to bill a victim for her rape kit....Can you elaborate on this? Is it a good idea to allow victims to be billed for their rape kits, even if they get fully reimbursed later?

Sen. Franken brings up an additional issue as to the billing of rape kits to victims, even if they are reimbursed by insurance: that an insurance claim being sent to someone's home could violate her privacy by informing the family, spouse or other residents about the rape, something about which the victim may not have wanted them to be made aware.

Susan Carbon, the Director of the Office of Violence Against Women, responds to that problem as well as others rape kit issues in her own testimony.

In 2009, Sen. Franken introduced the Justice for Survivors of Sexual Assault Act, which according to his site, would "reduce the national backlog of over 180,000 untested rape kits currently in police storage" and "also address several other problems that work to deny justice to victims of sexual assault – including the denial of free rape kits to survivors of sexual assault and the shortage of trained health professionals capable of administering rape kit exams." Sadly, the bill was referred to committee, where it has now been for nearly a year.

There may, however, be a ray of hope. When asked about movement on the stalled bill, Sen. Franken's office replied:

Senator Franken has been working hard with Chairman Leahy to include three provisions from Senator Franken’s Justice for Survivors of Sexual Assault Act (S. 2736) in Chairman Leahy’s upcoming Justice for All Act Reauthorization bill, to be introduced early [the week of September 27th].

Those three provisions are:

(1) A provision that will require jurisdictions receiving STOP grants to provide free rape kits to victims or arrange for them to receive free rape kits; this provision will prohibit the current practice—permitted by law—where certain jurisdictions bill rape victims and then allow the victim to seek reimbursement from the state.

(2) A provision that will require jurisdictions to report how much of the Debbie Smith grant funds they have used to analyze DNA from sexual assault cases.

(3) A provision that will penalize those jurisdictions that fail to report the reductions in rape kit backlog levels to the Department of Justice with reductions in Debbie Smith grant funding.

Senator Franken is optimistic that these provisions will be included in Chairman Leahy’s bill.

Will the provisions make it into the Justice for All Reauthorization bill? We will know this week.
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/09/22/franken-rape-kits

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For the fun of it let assume that the Feminists including Firefly are correct and the result of mixing young men and women together for just four years is rape on the scale never seen in the history of the world except in the sackings of cities.

Now Firefly and her like solution are to lock up a very large percents of our brightest and best educated young men.

This seem way too wasteful of human resources so perhaps we should turn to the Muslim model and cover up our young women and not allow them to attend mixed sex universities and in all other ways monitor them tightly until they are in the safe hands of their husbands.

After all a one in four rape figure call for fast actions and whatever you might think of the Muslim solution it seem to work in reducing rape.

We should at once separated males and females at the age of twelve in all public setting including all public education.

This solution is also in agreement with the feminist theory that we can not hold young woman accountable for their own actions and need to treat them as children.

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@firefly,

Well statutory rapes laws are strict liability laws where it does not matter to the courts one little bit if the girl show you a perfect forge US passport giving her age as being of legal age of consent or not.

This is the standard that Firefly and her like would like all sexual assaults laws to go in the directions of.

I can still remember a guy I knew who found out that he had have sex with an underage girl and he sweat it out for the five years it took to be beyond the statue of limitation.

His lawyer told him whatever he did not to made her mad at him as she was carrying the key to a possible jail cell with her during that five years period of time.

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Firefly,

I am so glad that girl that falsely accused came forward and told the truth. In this instance it seems it will work out okay since the man is really committing a crime and will be caught. But, lying can do major damage. I think she needs to be made to pay for every single hour those police had to put in investigating this. Fortunately, in this instance, it worked out but she needs to suffer the consquences of her actions also.

Now this other guy that the parents say is innocent? Um, since he was charged for sex crimes previously, I doubt he's innocent. Men really do know when they cross that line. They can justify it all they want but deep down I believe they have to know it's wrong.

Since you brought up statutory rape, which I am glad you did, I realized something last night. I could not figure out why I had let Bill get me so angry. I was perfectly okay with ignoring him and just thumbing down his posts. But last night I was pretty upset and I finally realized why.

I am listening to a book called Under The Banner of Heaven. It is a true crime story about two Mormon brothers that killed a woman and her 15 month old baby girl because the woman would not go along with polygamist marriages (in a nutshell). The book has a lot of history in it about the Mormom Church and polygamy. One entire chapter is pretty much a family tree and what that tree contained is sooooooooooooooo sick!

I'm sure you remember Elizabeth Smart? Well, she was kidnapped and raped and forced to "marry" an excommunicated man named Brian Mitchell. He is in jail along with his wife who helped him.

But there are so many 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 years old girls within the polygamist Mormon society that were forced to marry, forced to have sex, and forced to raise children. Some of these girls are married to their stepfathers while their mother is married to the man!

Not only is polygamy illegal in all fifty states, but so is statutory rape! Yet, why are these men not being charged with raping these 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 year old girls?

I was pretty shocked by that last night and so angry. I know what it feels like to be that age and be trapped like that! There are so many of them firefly. Why is it allowed to continue?

3 Replies

@Arella Mae,

I agree, Arella Mae, the situation allowing for the rapes of underage teen girls is horrible, and these are often incestuous in nature. I think they do try to go after the polygamous sects, like the FLDS Church, particularly because of the issue of underage girls being forced into marriage. That's why the leader, Warren Jetts, is in jail. This is the latest on that one..

Quote:

Judge won't dismiss rape case involving FLDS man
09/14/2010
By JENNIFER DOBNER / Associated Press

A Utah judge has refused to dismiss a rape charge filed against a man whose 2001 spiritual marriage was the basis for a criminal case involving polygamous church leader Warren Jeffs.

Allen Steed was charged with rape by Washington County prosecutors in September 2007 — one day after a jury found Jeffs guilty of two counts of rape as an accomplice for his role in Steed's 2001 marriage to Elissa Wall.

Both Steed and Wall, who are cousins, were members of Jeffs' Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Jeffs performed the couple's religious marriage ceremony and later counseled them...

Steed was 19 and Wall 14, when FLDS church leaders, in keeping with the faith's customs, arranged their marriage in 2001. The union ended in an FLDS divorce, known as a release, in 2004 after Wall became pregnant with Barlow's child.

Prosecutors used the marriage as the basis for filing criminal charges of rape as an accomplice against Jeffs in 2006. A St. George jury convicted the church leader the next year, and he was sentenced to two prison terms of five years to life.

During the trial, Wall said she objected to the marriage and was forced into sex.

The Associated Press does not generally identify people who say they were sexually assaulted, but Wall has spoken publicly and published a nationally distributed book about her life in the FLDS church and the case.

Steed testified on Jeffs' behalf, saying his sexual relationship with Wall was never forced.

The Utah Supreme Court overturned the convictions in July, saying faulty jury instructions denied Jeffs a fair trial. A decision about a retrial of the the Jeffs case by prosecutors is still pending.

Jeffs remains incarcerated in Utah and is fighting a warrant for his extradition to face criminal charges in Texas. Authorities there have charged him with bigamy, aggravated sexual assault and assault charges for alleged incidents involving underage girls at a church ranch near Eldorado.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D9I7USN02.html

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

I was pretty shocked by that last night and so angry. I know what it feels like to be that age and be trapped like that! There are so many of them firefly. Why is it allowed to continue?

First you are talking about tens of thousands of children alone that would overwhelm the state abilities to deal with them.

Second most of the victims grow up in that culture and do not see the government as their rescuers but the agent to take them always from their families and placed their very souls at risk

In other word it is not that simple and it would be far too easy to do more harm then good.

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@Arella Mae,

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I am so glad that girl that falsely accused came forward and told the truth. In this instance it seems it will work out okay since the man is really committing a crime and will be caught. But, lying can do major damage. I think she needs to be made to pay for every single hour those police had to put in investigating this. Fortunately, in this instance, it worked out but she needs to suffer the consequences of her actions also

The girl actually didn't falsely accuse anyone in particular of raping her, she filed a false report of an abduction and gang rape. That not only wasted police resources, it frightened the entire community. She should definitely be punished, perhaps by having to perform community service for an extended period, I'm not sure what else might be appropriate for a 15 year old in this particular set of circumstances. I think in most cases of false rape reports the main "damage" done is to the police department--it wastes their time and resources. I think generally the police, as in this case, are pretty savvy. When someone lies to them, about something like a rape, they can pick up on things that don't sound quite right to them, and most often they can get the truth to come out from the complainant. That's why the probability of someone being tried and convicted solely on the basis of the female's deliberate false allegation of rape is very very low. The police probably do weed out most false allegations, if anything they bend over backward in the other direction, by discounting too many actual rape reports as lacking credibility and not worthy of full investigation. In this case, they might have doubted this girl's story from the beginning, but, given the type of crime she described, they did exactly the right thing by launching an immediate and thorough investigation. That also helps to weed out a false allegation. Everyone wants to try to prevent false allegations from being lodged, and certainly from resulting in criminal charges against anyone.

It is so reckless for a 15 year old to go to meet a strange man she met online. In my area, a girl of the same age did the same thing several years back. When she met the man, she was kidnapped by him and was held for about two weeks, being sexually assaulted throughout that time. I forgot the details of how her release came about, but the incident generated a panic reaction among parents and prompted extensive discussions in the schools about the dangers of meeting strangers online. Lord knows how many pedophiles, predators, and sexual deviants prowl the internet looking for gullible, vulnerable teens. Did you ever watch the TV show, "To Catch A Predator"? It never failed to amaze me how these adult men showed up fully prepared to have sex with someone they thought was 12 or 13 years old. Those sorts of sting operations are very necessary.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Oh that book has plenty of Warren Jeffs and his uncle and other relatives in it. Slimeballs all of them! It also has some testimonies of some girls who managed to run away due to this abuse. My husband listens to books with me and it even made his normally strong stomach leap with disgust. These are children! I don't know what is worse-the men that are doing this or the parents that allow it! One girl was horribly hurt on her "wedding night" and was bleeding quite profusely. She thought she could run to her brother for help. Oh yeah, he helped her all right. He called her "husband" and he came and got her and her family berrated her for leaving at all. Not one person cared she was physically hurt.

These men involved in these polygamist marriages are just control freaks. We are talking men into their 60's married to children! One man was 66 and he married a 12 year old and she was pregnant by him at 13. So disgusting. Quite often there is a lot of jealousy between the wives also and has gotten pretty abusive. One man had 45 "wives" and had fathered 100 children. And who pays for that? Why we, the taxpayers, mostly. Oh sure some of the polygamists like you see on TV do have money but that's a rarity. I would imagine 45 women with an average of two children each could pull in quite a bit on welfare, considering they pool it all. So, we end up paying for that. We end up paying for criminals? Rapists? Yep, we sure do!

I just find it so sad that the underage girls still there that are being raped don't seem to garner the same attention as Elizabeth Smart. Thank God Elizabeth was rescued and is home safely but these girls? They are trapped unless they can get out or someone gets them out.

I am not an eye for eye type of person but Warren Jeffs needs to stay put away where he can't hurt anyone else. He has destroyed so many lives with his influence.

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@firefly,

Quote:

It never failed to amaze me how these adult men showed up fully prepared to have sex with someone they thought was 12 or 13 years old. Those sorts of sting operations are very necessary.

Kind of similar to bailing out an ocean with a teaspoon but it does made for interesting TV.

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@firefly,

Quote:

It never failed to amaze me how these adult men showed up fully prepared to have sex with someone they thought was 12 or 13 years old. Those sorts of sting operations are very necessary.

The thing is-they aren't men. They may be males but they definitely are not men. They are predatory animals and nothing more.

You would think at this day and age with so much publicity about the internet and murders, rapes, etc., teenagers would be paying attention. I guess they just have that "oh, it couldn't happen to me" attitude.

I have met quite a few people I have met on the internet. But always with my husband there and we have always met in a public place. You just can't be too careful.

4 Replies

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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