Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@firefly,

Quote:

Right, adults are expected to have sex only with other consenting adults (or with those who have at least attained the age of consent and are no more than a few years younger than the adult).

why are you fixated on kids? We are moving to a definition of rape where for instance a boss who has sex with someone in his section of the flow chart is guilty of rape, on the grounds that the negotiation was on a inherently coercive landscape, and thus the consent could never be valid. You and a lot of other people seem to be 30 years behind the times on what the sought after definition of rape is. Maybe this explains why you can not fathom why some people are beginning to object to what is being done "in our best interests".

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@hawkeye10,

How can the state invalidate consent?

Someone below the age of consent cannot legally give consent. Because the female was willing, does not mean she gave legal consent, and every male should be aware of that.

The state won't let her drive either, if she doesn't have a driver's license, even if she wants to. If she's not old enough to buy cigarettes or alcohol she can't go into a store and purchase them, even if she wants them.

Just because she is willing to engage in sex does not mean she can give legal consent. And if you are 5, or 10, years older than she is, you can certainly find yourself deservedly charged with statutory rape.

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@firefly,

You posted before I could, but also said it better than I could.

Right on.

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@firefly,

Quote:

Just because she is willing to engage in sex does not mean she can give legal consent. And if you are 5, or 10, years older than she is, you can certainly find yourself deservedly charged with statutory rape

If you have been pay attention you know that I am most concerned about the state removing the right to consent from adults, however our refusal to allow teens to consent is a problem as well. They also should be able to smoke and drink much earlier than they can in case you are thinking as usual I am all about taking advantage of youth. I am an advocate for teenager rights, in general.

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@hawkeye10,

A problem for you, perhaps. Not a problem for the normal populace.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

We are moving to a definition of rape where for instance a boss who has sex with someone in his section of the flow chart is guilty of rape, on the grounds that the negotiation was on a inherently coercive landscape, and thus the consent could never be valid. You and a lot of other people seem to be 30 years behind the times on what the sought after definition of rape is. Maybe this explains why you can not fathom why some people are beginning to object to what is being done "in our best interests".

Sexual harrassment in the workplace is indeed a serious problem, and neither males nor females should have to endure such treatment, or feel coerced into unwanted sexual activity in order to keep a job or gain advancement. I want laws to prevent these things from happening. The only people I can see objecting to such laws are those who lament the loss of their power over someone in a vulnerable position.

I'm not behind the times. I approve of the changes. People should not be pressured or coerced or forced into unwanted sexual activity in any situation.

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@Intrepid,

Quote:

A problem for you, perhaps. Not a problem for the normal populace.

you say that so often it should be an your auto reply. I have never had sex with a person under 18 except for my wife, and if that is a problem for you I dont care. According to current law it was stat rape, which I think is very sad.

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@firefly,

Quote:

Sexual harrassment in the workplace is indeed a serious problem, and neither males nor females should have to endure such treatment, or feel coerced into unwanted sexual activity in order to keep a job or gain advancement. I want laws to prevent these things from happening.

if you have been following along you know the goal is to get rid of all such sex, coercion is not required, only the potential for coercion. The person in the lower power position can pursue the person in the higher, to a point, but even here the person in the power position leaves themselves wide open for the charge of rape if the lower power person later gets pissy and tries to sell a story of how it was all the other persons fault.

the message is dont be sexual with people who you have any power over, no matter what.

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@firefly,

Hawkeye disagrees with the legal community re legal consent.

I'll acknowledge I've read some a2k threads on this and have considered lowering consenting age marginally after reading them, but not by much.

I can't link to his comments, but I've listened to Robert and some others on all this. Not to pick on him, but I remember what I took as sharp comments.

Me, I think much of the world mates before adulthood has dawned. Sometimes this works out. Sometimes the missing decade cries out.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

I am most concerned about the state removing the right to consent from adults,

Apart from the seriously cognitively or mentally impaired, the severely developmentally disabled, the comatose, those who wish to be severely injured during sexual activity, and those who are intoxicated by alcohol and drugs, from which adults, of sound mind, in non-coercive situations, does the state remove the right to consent?

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
A problem for you, perhaps. Not a problem for the normal populace.
you say that so often it should be an your auto reply. I have never had sex with a person under 18 except for my wife, and if that is a problem for you I dont care. According to current law it was stat rape, which I think is very sad.

You have advocated consentual sex with young girls for so long that it should be your signature line. Your views are still not part of mainstream thinking (fortunately).

I really wonder why you so vehemently oppose any regulatory control to prevent young people from being exploited. I also wonder why you cannot accept the definition of rape as established for the protection of the victim.

I find it rather incredulous that you say your wife was sexually abused, you were sexually abused and your children were sexually abused. There does seem to be a problem here.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

the message is dont be sexual with people who you have any power over, no matter what

That's probably a generally good idea.

It's also why therapists can't have sex with their patients, college professors should avoid sex with their students, and bosses should not have sex with their employees. The potential for sexual abuse is just too high. Those who choose to do these things have to be prepared to take the consequences.

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@firefly,

My now wife used to work for me in the corporation where I was employed. She was interested in my but I made it a point never to date anybody who worked for me.

When I was promoted she worked for somebody who worked for me. I still did not go out with her.

I was then promoted to another position and she no longer worked for me.

Like I said, she is now my wife.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Ah, but there are some famous great love stories, and the student may have been, or not, sharper than the 'professor'. This will always happen.

I'm not saying there isn't power romping. But in those cases, there is often a person in superior position and an underling with a zoom lensing laser.
Usually there is another one after that.

I don't know, is there anyone who doesn't know about all this?

What does any of this have to do with rape?

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@Intrepid,

Quote:

Like I said, she is now my wife.

I am sure you did not mind that infringement upon you freedom at all. Don'T worry, there will be an endless supply of causes and mostly crooks who will continue to take from you until you are finally willing to make a stand for yourself.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Like I said, she is now my wife.
I am sure you did not mind that infringement upon you freedom at all. Don'T worry, there will be an endless supply of causes and mostly crooks who will continue to take from you until you are finally willing to make a stand for yourself.

That is the point, dufus. It was NOT an infringement upon my right. It was a conscious decision that I made. You may not understand mature decisions, but it happens all the time.

Where do you see that I don't take a stand for anything? Nobody takes anything from me. Well, that is not exactly true. You take my patience.

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@Intrepid,

Hawkeye wants the freedom to exploit other people, apparently without limits. That's why he feels the state is taking his precious freedom from him, and from all other "real men" --they're invading his bedroom, protecting the vulnerable in society too much, limiting his selection of sex partners, preventing him from enjoying kiddy porn, defining sexual "coercion" beyond just brute force, giving wives the right not to be raped, and otherwise defining tolerable and appropriate adult behavior in a way which is "anti-sex". And, what the state isn't doing to him, the "feminists" are doing, with their ridiculous claims that women and children have been victimized, and need the protections of law, when we should all recognize that victimization is "a blessing in disguise".

And, if you don't agree with him, Intrepid, that means you're an emasculated fool, who can't see the truth of what is happening around you.

osso, you are right--none of this has anything to do with the topic of rape.
Hawkeye can't discuss the topic without veering off into how his sexual freedom is being cramped by the state's insistence that he cannot have unbridled license with regard to sexual activity, because that might cause others to be harmed, exploited, or abused. He's not really concerned with the problem of rape, other than to give it passing lip service, and acknowledging that it sometimes occurs.

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@Intrepid,

Quote:

Where do you see that I don't take a stand for anything?

I can point you to one specific situation, Intrepid.

1 Reply

Check this one out.

Quote:

Israel jails Arab for duping Jew into having sex
(AFP) – 14 hours ago

JERUSALEM — An Israeli court's jailing on a rape charge of an Arab man it ruled had duped a Jewish woman into consensual sex by lying about his ethnicity caused a stir on Wednesday.

The Jerusalem District Court "has gone too far," the liberal Haaretz daily quoted Elkana Laist of the public defender's office as saying.

The court sentenced Sabbar Kashur, 30, to 18 months behind bars on Monday, after finding that he had had sex with the woman by posing as a Jewish bachelor interested in a long-term relationship.

When the woman found out he was not a Jew, she filed a police complaint that led to charges of rape and indecent assault. In a plea deal, Kashur later agreed to the charge of rape by deception, Haaretz said.

"If she hadn't thought the accuser was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she would not have cooperated," Judge Zvi Segal wrote in his verdict.

Kashur, who is married and has two small children, called the verdict racist.

"If I were Jewish, they wouldn't even have questioned me. That's not called rape," Haaretz quoted him as saying.

"She agreed to everything that happened."

The newspaper noted that the Israeli High Court set a precedent for the charge of rape by deception in 2008 when it rejected an appeal against a rape conviction by a man who impersonated an housing ministry official, promising women he would get them an apartment if they slept with him.

Lais argued that the Jerusalem court went too far in its application of that High Court ruling, "opening the door to a rape conviction every time a person lies regarding details of his identity."

The argument that obtaining sex by false pretenses is a form of rape has been used in several countries, including the United States.

Israel's Arab community numbers 1.3 million, about 20 percent of the population. It includes the descendants of the 160,000 Palestinians who remained in Israel after the 1948 war and establishment of the Jewish state.

Relations between the two communities have always been controversial as Israel describes itself as both a Jewish and a democratic state, with rights for all its citizens.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i3DzC0m0snyehBQmZFencI3hJM6w

1 Reply

Back to the topic.

In today's news was this arrest. This rapist clearly shows that the age of the victim was irrelevant for him--his youngest was only 11. The only thing that matters is that they are female, available, and vunerable.

Quote:

FDNY EMT Arrested for Serial Rapes, Attack of Girl, 11
EMT linked to crimes as far back as 2001
By JUAN DEJESUS
Updated 3:45 PM EDT, Wed, Jul 21, 2010

An FDNY EMT has been arrested and charged with the sexual assault of five women, including an 11-year-old girl earlier this month, officials said today.

Paid by taxpayers to save lives, Angus Pascall has been charged with rape, sexual abuse, criminal sexual act, menacing, criminal possession of a weapon and endangering the welfare of a child, the NYPD said.

The 33-year-old Brooklyn man is being pegged by the police as a serial rapist who first struck in June of 2001.

In that crime nearly a decade ago, police officials said a 22-year-old woman was raped by a suspect, armed with a gun who walked in behind her just after she entered her home. The next attack occured in May 2009. The victim was identified by police as a 19-year-old, was threatened with a knife and sodomized in an elevator before her attacker fled.

Last October, the suspect approached a 14-year-old female with a knife and gun when he forced her to the back of an apartment, police said. He then attempted to sexually assault her, but according to police, the victim fought off the suspect who then fled.

Police allege that Pascall was behind the recent rape of an 11-year-old girl, who he cornered in an elevator and sodomized.

NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly said he used an elevator key that is, "made available to FDNY emergency medical technicians."

The most recent attack occurred on Monday, when a 20-year-old woman was walking on the street when she was forced at gunpoint into the suspect’s vehicle. Pascall allegedly drove the car to the back of a building where he raped the young woman and then forced her out of the vehicle. Commissioner Kelly said the young woman managed to take down the license plate number of the car used.

The police traced the plate number to the registerted owner of the vehicle. The registered owner and his son were both questioned but neither of them fit the description. Pascall however was friends with the vehicle owners son. The EMT had taken custody of the vehicle after the his friend was arrested for driving with a suspended license.

The Brooklyn man has been a member of the FDNY for more than five years, which included a unit citation in 2006. He was apprehended and arrested at the station which he worked at out of Kings County Hospital.

Commissioner Kelly noted that Pascall was currently on restricted duty for an assault on his girlfriend in January and he was reportedly scheduled to appear in court for that assault on the day of the most recent rape.

Pascall was taken to the 67th precinct were lineups were conducted. He was identified in three of the five incidences in a particular pattern.

The EMT is expected to be arraigned Wednesday afternoon.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/EMT-Arrested-for-Allegedly-Raping-5-Woman-Police-Say-98936479.html

1 Reply

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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