25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 03:22 pm
@firefly,
How frighteningly true. I said before people like that are as bad as the rapists and some probably violate women too.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 03:30 pm
@Arella Mae,
Anything for you here is a link to Time article on the trial.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,919963,00.html

Here is an article with the background information.


http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2010/03/flashback-first-case-of-marital-rape.html

Saturday, March 13, 2010
Flashback: First case of marital rape involving co-habitating spouses: she was treated as a pioneer even though he was acquitted

Here's a story from the archives that made a big national splash back in 1979, the glory days of feminism. Time Magazine and newspapers around the country wrote about it. It was the first marital rape case against a husband who was living with the wife.

Even if you don't remember the case, regular readers of this blog can imagine how the case was regarded by feminists. The wife was regarded as a pioneer, and the case was treated as a breakthrough.

Unfortunately, as is common in this area where ideology matters more than facts, the evidence didn't quite match the "wife-as-rape-victim" metanarrative.

Spoiler alert: he was acquitted. They got back together for a short time, then divorced on amicable terms. She got custody of their child, of course, and he was saddled with a support payment. They disputed whether his $18,000 defense costs for his rape trial should be classified as a family debt. (That was a lot of money in 1979, especially for an out-of-work 21-year-old cook.) See here.

Some enterprising producer even made a film about the case (which the wife didn't much care for).

Even acclaimed satirist Art Buchwald had his say about the case. (Trigger alert: feminists won't like what Mr. Buchwald wrote -- got to read to the end.)

The ex-husband eventually got in trouble with the law because he couldn't keep away from the ex-wife.

The most infuriating aspect of the matter, of course, was the reaction of the feminists. The story as reported by Time Magazine presented a classic "he said/she said" allegation of rape by a wife against her husband. Certainty about what happened was not possible, just as it is not possible in most such cases. Why the case was brought is anyone's guess, but I suspect ideology had something to do with it -- after all, a woman's crisis center urged the wife to bring rape charges, and for a lot of people, this case was bigger than these particular facts. Like Duke lacrosse, it symbolized something "more important" than whether a crime was committed and whether a man barely out of his teen years would spend the best years of his life behind bars. Those, you see, were insignificant trifles. What really mattered was the symbolism of a wife sending her husband to prison for rape.

Now read this next part carefully: after the husband's acquittal, the director of the crisis center whose representatives had urged the wife to bring the charges in the first place, had this to say: "I feel terrifically saddened by the verdict and concerned about the future of women who have to live with marital violence daily."

Read it again. Think about the insanity of that prompted that statement -- given that no one, except the two people in that bedroom, could possibly know what really happened.

Another crisis center worker said this: "Most of us are just in shock. It is a terrible setback for women, all women."

Did you get that? A terrible setback for women -- that a man who was found not guilty of rape on disputed evidence was not being sent to prison for many years.

Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 03:36 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

the whole issue of whether she was slipped a date rape drug can get very murky.
I see, how frightening.

firefly wrote:
I feel they should do blood work, along with a rape kit, for any woman who thinks she might have been drugged
I completely agree. Is it down to costs?
firefly wrote:
But the primary date rape drug appears to be alcohol. The man may ply the woman with booze, but she drinks it. And that lessens her inhibitions, and resistance, and judgment, and that makes her more vulnerable--which is just what the rapist wants in a date rape situation.
It nearly happened to me once. I was young and stupid and very green. I was absolutely plastered, could hardly stand when I was leaving a nightclub alone. A man grabbed my arm and said you're coming with me and there was nothing I could do about it. The look on his face made it obvious his intent. Very luckily for me a bouncer on the door spotted me leaving and asked his son to look out for me. He pulled me away from the animal and walked me home. Can you believe it, how lucky was I and I still shudder at the thought of it and it scares me, I will never forget it.

I think it's awful that if I was raped that I would face so many hurdles and a tough time in getting a conviction for this bastard. He's still out there no doubt praying on the vulnerable and no doubt getting away with it.

Alcohol is such a dangerous drug. Do you think educating young people on the dangers and date rape would reduce this crime?

Thanks for your post Firefly.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 03:40 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline Caroline you are all over the place.

You claimed that I posted that it is ok for a man to stare at a woman crotch and I never posted any such thing and did post in response that I had commented that I myself have a problem in not looking too long at women breasts that are on display in that thread.

As far as being supported or not if I remember correctly my first thought was that you should had talk to him in private over the matter as a first step.

I however do not remember in detail what I had posted other then I did not support anyone staring at a woman crotch.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 03:46 pm
@Caroline,
Quote:
Alcohol is such a dangerous drug. Do you think educating young people on the dangers and date rape would reduce this crime?


YES as I had posted over and over again on this thread however Firefly seem more interested in posters showing young men in handcupps then any program that just might prove helpful.
Caroline
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 03:49 pm
@BillRM,
Why are you both so hard on Firefly when she's done nothing?
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 03:59 pm
@Caroline,
Quote:
Why are you both so hard on Firefly when she's done nothing?


LOL there is nothing I can said if looking at all her postings you can think she is doing nothing!

Gong back to the subject at hand binge drinking at college couple with young men and women barely mature and at their peak of sexual drive is the root of most of the sexual conflicts on campuses not evil young men who are predator for the most part.

We need to reduce binge drinking that seem out of control and rapes real and otherwise will go sharply down in my opinion.
Caroline
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 04:05 pm
@BillRM,
I don't see anything wrong with her posts, what do you mean?
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 04:11 pm
@Caroline,
Quote:
I don't see anything wrong with her posts, what do you mean?


If you see nothing wrong with her posts we are not living on the same planet or the same universe for that matter and it is pointless to pursue the matter.

Do you wish to address the issue of binge drinking and possible programs that could be set up to reduce sexual problems on campuses?
Caroline
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 04:15 pm
@BillRM,
Go on then. But I do think you're wrong about firefly and as you can't back it up this only confirms my belief.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 04:18 pm
@Caroline,
Quote:
I don't see anything wrong with her posts, what do you mean?


Can not back it up? Just read her postings but if you do not see it then there is no way I can made you see it anymore then I can made a color blind person see the color of blue.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 04:22 pm
@BillRM,
I think you're just pissed at her. Anyway enough, let's get back on topic.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 04:42 pm
@Caroline,
Now my program would start with meetings with all new students where I would explain all the reasons binge drinking is harmful and that anyone found to be doing so on or off campus will be expulsed after one warning.

Legal drinking age would not be the main issue being drunk in any public place or anywhere on campus would be.

If the university have their own police department I would set up a firm procedure for the handling of sexual misconduct reports and have the students be aware of it. In fact, I would have officers address the students on how they will deal with any such happenings.

Not having a police department, I would try to work out a close relationships with the local police.

The students are told upfront that beside the legal aspect of any misbehavior in this area the university will once more punish students up to expulsion.

I would also made it very very clear that not only sexual assaults or any behavior approaching such will be punish but any false reporting of same will also be punish very severely.


Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 05:05 pm
@BillRM,
It wouldn't stop all the predators out there praying on women who are vulnerable and naive and the young.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 05:15 pm
@Caroline,
Quote:
It wouldn't stop all the predators out there praying on women who are vulnerable and naive and the young.


Nobody short of god have the power to protect everyone all you can do is made the student body as hard of a target as possible for evil doers.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 05:55 pm
@Caroline,
My guess, and it is only a guess, about the short period for reporting it is, I would imagine in many cases the couple would make up. As horrific as that may sound to me, it does happen. People in love are able to forgive just about everything. The laws getting involved in the dynamics of a marriage is pretty shaky ground I'd say.

Now, to any rational woman, I'd think being raped by your husband is enough to tell you that you need to run from him and run fast. But, we all know that's not how reality works sometimes. I suppose it would also be very easy for a husband to say we were "playing a game and she asked me to rape her", which rather goes back to the title of this thread. Another thing is, for spousal rape there's got to be some sort of different proof I would think. DNA isn't going to do a thing in a spousal rape case. DNA being transmitted via semen is natural in marital relations, so proving rape to a jury might be rather difficult.

That is all just my opinion, as I really haven't done much research into the topic. It came up in this thread and I am researching it now.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 05:59 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Anything for you here is a link to Time article on the trial.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,919963,00.html

Here is an article with the background information.


http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2010/03/flashback-first-case-of-marital-rape.html

Saturday, March 13, 2010
Flashback: First case of marital rape involving co-habitating spouses: she was treated as a pioneer even though he was acquitted

Here's a story from the archives that made a big national splash back in 1979, the glory days of feminism. Time Magazine and newspapers around the country wrote about it. It was the first marital rape case against a husband who was living with the wife.

Even if you don't remember the case, regular readers of this blog can imagine how the case was regarded by feminists. The wife was regarded as a pioneer, and the case was treated as a breakthrough.

Unfortunately, as is common in this area where ideology matters more than facts, the evidence didn't quite match the "wife-as-rape-victim" metanarrative.

Spoiler alert: he was acquitted. They got back together for a short time, then divorced on amicable terms. She got custody of their child, of course, and he was saddled with a support payment. They disputed whether his $18,000 defense costs for his rape trial should be classified as a family debt. (That was a lot of money in 1979, especially for an out-of-work 21-year-old cook.) See here.

Some enterprising producer even made a film about the case (which the wife didn't much care for).

Even acclaimed satirist Art Buchwald had his say about the case. (Trigger alert: feminists won't like what Mr. Buchwald wrote -- got to read to the end.)

The ex-husband eventually got in trouble with the law because he couldn't keep away from the ex-wife.

The most infuriating aspect of the matter, of course, was the reaction of the feminists. The story as reported by Time Magazine presented a classic "he said/she said" allegation of rape by a wife against her husband. Certainty about what happened was not possible, just as it is not possible in most such cases. Why the case was brought is anyone's guess, but I suspect ideology had something to do with it -- after all, a woman's crisis center urged the wife to bring rape charges, and for a lot of people, this case was bigger than these particular facts. Like Duke lacrosse, it symbolized something "more important" than whether a crime was committed and whether a man barely out of his teen years would spend the best years of his life behind bars. Those, you see, were insignificant trifles. What really mattered was the symbolism of a wife sending her husband to prison for rape.

Now read this next part carefully: after the husband's acquittal, the director of the crisis center whose representatives had urged the wife to bring the charges in the first place, had this to say: "I feel terrifically saddened by the verdict and concerned about the future of women who have to live with marital violence daily."

Read it again. Think about the insanity of that prompted that statement -- given that no one, except the two people in that bedroom, could possibly know what really happened.

Another crisis center worker said this: "Most of us are just in shock. It is a terrible setback for women, all women."

Did you get that? A terrible setback for women -- that a man who was found not guilty of rape on disputed evidence was not being sent to prison for many years.


First, you said they were together after the trial. That is obviously not true. She filed for divorce.

Second it says HE COULDN'T KEEP AWAY FROM HER, an he eventually got in trouble for it.

Her big mistake was to continue living with him thinking anyone was going to convict the guy of rape. Her living with him after the rape pretty much negates the rape itself in the fact that her continuing to live with him would be viewed as forgiveness by the courts.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 06:03 pm
And by the way, nothing Bill posted about what he would do on campuses is new. Most campuses already have those things in place and have had for a long time.

Unfortunately, there have been many cases where "treasured athletes" have received special treatment and mere slaps on the writst.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 06:04 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

Unfortunately, there have been many cases where "treasured athletes" have received special treatment and mere slaps on the writst.[/color]
That's disgusting isn't it. It gives them a green light to rape, animals.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 06:09 pm
@Arella Mae,
How without some physical proof of harm how do you prove what happen in a married couple bed room beyond a reasonable doubt???????

Getting law enforcement involved in such situations is no win situation if I ever hear of one.

Sound good evil men can no longer force sex on their wives and we will treat such as simple rape.

Then the real world meet up with such laws changes and how unenforceable in the real world and how open to abused such laws happen to be come to light.
 

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