25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:06 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:
It appears that you do not trust the criminal justice system to make convictions based on evidence.


Would you care to google the numbers of men who was released from prison of late after serving decades for a rape that new DNA tests had shown that they did not do.
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:06 pm
@BillRM,
Accusers do not convict defendants of anything. Judges and juries do that on the basis of evidence presented in court. Do they ever make mistakes? Of course, but not often, and it happens in crimes other than rape. But, either you accept the criminal justice system, or you don't.

No one condones people who make false accusations of any crime. But, unless someone admits to making a false charge, or evidence proves the charge was knowingly false, law enforcement should allow charges to be evaluated in the courts. And law enforcement determines the penalty for filing false charges.

People who are falsely accused have recourse in civil court to seek damages. Why is that point lost on you?
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:10 pm
@firefly,
Quote:

No one condones people who make false accusations of any crime. But, unless someone admits to making a false charge, or evidence proves the charge was knowingly false, law enforcement should allow charges to be evaluated in the courts. And law enforcement determines the penalty for filing false charges.
The bigger problem is what now qualifies as a justifiable rape charge. There is no remedy for that injustice.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:16 pm
@firefly,
Once more after if been proven beyond question in a court action that a woman had file a knowingly false charge of rape you do not think that it should be a crime on the same level as a rape?

The Duke players come to mind in this regards.

That trying to used the justice system as a tool to take an innocent man life away from him should not be anything but a minor crime.

Beyond that women who do such acts are in the end reducing the likelihood that real victims are given credit in court and real rapist are then allow to walk free.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
The law defines the rape charges for the various degrees of rape.

You don't consider these "justifiable" rape laws because you, personally, don't agree with them. They reflect the lawmakers definition of rape. Lawmakers are elected, and the majority of people support these laws. People want rapists and child molesters charged and punished severely.

The real problem is that too many rapes still go unreported, and it is still fairly easy for people to get away with the crime of rape.

It is rape which is never "justifiable".
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:36 pm
@firefly,
Laws are make for and by special interests and pressure groups and only when the situation get completely out of control does the voters as a whole pay attention to what the hell the lawmakers are doing.

This sad fact allows poor laws in areas where pressure groups exist to become the laws of the state.

The let protect women as children pressure groups had been the engine behind many laws that ended up doing more harm to women then helping them.

By expanding the legal meaning of rape beyond all reasons they had reduce the likelihood that the crime will be view as seriously as it was in the past.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:37 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You don't consider these "justifiable" rape laws because you, personally, don't agree with them. They reflect the lawmakers definition of rape. Lawmakers are elected, and the majority of people support these laws. People want rapists and child molesters charged and punished severely
the last 20 years of sex law changes have been done mostly either in opposition to majority opinion or when the citizens largely did not care.They have taken place in a confederation of special interests which have successfully lobbied the politicians that these laws would further the public good. In fact they do not because they undermine fairness and they are in opposition to human behavior. It is time for the citizens to take the process back.

Quote:
The real problem is that too many rapes still go unreported
ya,we have talked about that. Victims dont report because it is not in their interest to report. So the do-gooders pull out a bigger hammer. Now we are working to create a snitch culture so that victims are not allowed to gum up the works anymore. Ya, that will work. What it will do it teach people that if they are raped they damn will better never tell a soul. Good plan, very helpful to healing the hurt.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:41 pm
@BillRM,
Of course, a fellow can just stay sober enough that he can judge whether the lady is able to consent.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:47 pm
I do wonder...

In cases where both participants are drunk.... should both the man and the woman be charged with sexual assault?
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 01:05 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
It appears that you do not trust the criminal justice system to make convictions based on evidence.


Would you care to google the numbers of men who was released from prison of late after serving decades for a rape that new DNA tests had shown that they did not do.


No, I would not care to google. You are making the claim. It is up to you to research and provide proof. Not me.

I would think that it would be the same type of DNA test that could be used in current cases.

As far as the consent and being drunk is concerned. You seem to either forget or not be aware that legal consent cannot be given while under the influence.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 01:18 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
In cases where both participants are drunk.... should both the man and the woman be charged with sexual assault?


I had already pointed out that hole in the logic however it would seem that the double standard is alive and well with some of the posters and only the man had a duty to protect the woman from her own behaviors not the other way around.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 01:21 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:
aware that legal consent cannot be given while under the influence.


Then the women is guilty of rape also if they had intercourse and he was also not able to grant consent

Sorry we need to be blind as far as the sexes are concern under our laws.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 01:26 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:
You are making the claim. It is up to you to research and provide proof. Not me.


DNA, RAPE FREE Goggle search produce over 1.4 millions hits with a large percent of those hits dealing with men found innocents of rapes from DNA testings.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 01:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
It is time for the citizens to take the process back.


Citizens have always been in control of the process. They wanted tighter laws, and got them, and juries, composed of citizens, are imposing harsher sentences. You want to turn the clock back to make it easier on rapists and child molestors.

A 79 year old woman was raped in NYC monday in the hallway of her apartment house. When that rapist is caught he will face a much tougher sentence because his victim was over the age of 65. That's one recent change to the sex crime/rape laws and it was done in direct response to public outrage over such crimes being perpetrated against the elderly. Hopefully, those tougher sentences will be some deterrent. If not, those who rape elderly women better be prepared to spend a large chunk of their remaining life in jail.

There is no "snitch culture". A sex crimes prosecution cannot take place without a statement from the victim and/or physical evidence taken from the victim. And, why is it snitching if someone turns in someone who has committed a crime? Isn't that being a good citizen?

Quote:

Reported rapes decrease
Doesn’t mean rape itself has decreased
By Tom Smith

Senior Staff Writer
Published: Sunday, November 1, 2009 at 3:30 a.m.

The number of reported rapes is at its lowest in 20 years, according to an FBI survey, but officials warn that doesn't mean there are fewer instances of the crime itself.

"A lack of reporting has always been a huge problem, and still is, because rapes are still happening every day," said Lauren Sogor, of the National Sexual Violence Resource Center in Enola, Penn.

She said only 25-30 percent of rapes are reported to law enforcement.

The FBI survey revealed that in 2008, there were 89,000 reported rapes, compared to 90,427 in 2007 and 94,504 reported in 1989.

Survey results note the number of reported rapes fluctuated in the past 20 years but has declined steadily since 2004.

Experts attribute the decrease in the number of reported rapes to improved DNA testing, aggressive prosecution and an increase in awareness.

Officials with the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network say reporting has increased by one third since 1993.

"But rape is still happening," said Selina Rachelle, victims services coordinator for Rape Response in Florence, which works with rape victims throughout Northwest Alabama.

She said the organization was contacted about victims getting medical help from rape 37 times in 2007 and 43 times in 2008.

"And so far this year we have gone out 35 times," Rachelle said. "So, rape is still happening and still being reported."

She said a lot of victims have a misconception of what rape actually is.

"A lot of young women feel if violence is not involved, they don't believe they have been raped," Rachelle said. "I've had people say it wasn't rape because the attacker didn't hit them.

"If it is unwanted, then it is forced. Any time anyone has power over a person and they are raped, then it's forcible rape. That's why education is so important. We have to teach people what rape is."

Statistics from Alabama and local law enforcement agencies don't reflect the national levels. In fact, those statistics show an increase.

There were 1,524 rapes reported in Alabama in 2008, compared to 1,404 in 2007.

In 2008, in Northwest Alabama's largest municipalities, there were 30 rapes reported compared to 29 in 2007.

"Statistics can be deceiving," said Tuscumbia Police Chief Tony Logan, who is also a criminal justice instructor. "It's great to look at the numbers and see them declining (nationally), but unfortunately, the numbers sometimes don't reflect the true story but show there are still problems in some areas."

Sogor said while it's good to see forcible rape reports dropping, there is still a problem when it comes to acquaintance rape, which she said constitutes almost 75 percent of all rapes.

"Stranger rapes are very rare," she said. "The biggest problem that we see is getting acquaintance rapes reported."

Local law enforcement authorities agree the majority of rapes they investigate are acquaintance rapes.

"They come in cycles, as with all crimes," said Franklin County District Attorney Joey Rushing. "Sometimes there will be two or three in a month and then there will be two or three months without a report. And usually, when we do get a reported rape, it is someone who knew the attacker."

Statistics show that 73 percent of rape victims know their attackers.

Sogor said acquaintance rapes are not reported for a number of reasons.

"People don't feel comfortable with the legal system; they don't believe they'll be believed," she said. "Some victims feel pressure not to tell on a family member or a friend, some feel ashamed and there are some that are afraid to tell - they're frightened of revenge."

Law enforcement officials say some victims still perceive there is a stigma for whatever reason about reporting a rape when the victim knows the attacker.

"This is exactly why education about rape is so vital," Rushing said.

"People need to know why they should report these incidents and when to report them. I can't tell you how many calls we get from people wanting to talk about a rape and it's happened years before.

"It makes it so much harder on law enforcement and the prosecutors when the victims wait to report the incident."

Sogor said she's happy to see the reporting of forcible rape down, but there is still a lot of work to do.

"There are still situations occurring every day where sexual assaults take place and because of that, we have to continue the fight," she said. "Our goal is to work ourselves out of a job."

Logan said any kind of reduction of violent crime is good news, but "you have to look at the big picture and understand there are some underlying factors that are still happening and need to be addressed."

http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091101/ARTICLES/911015041&Title=Reported-rapes-decrease&template=printart




JTT
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 02:25 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
and juries, composed of citizens, are imposing harsher sentences.


Do juries impose sentences? ever?
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 02:38 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
aware that legal consent cannot be given while under the influence.


Then the women is guilty of rape also if they had intercourse and he was also not able to grant consent

Sorry we need to be blind as far as the sexes are concern under our laws.



Most men are so happy to get some that they would never accuse any woman of rape. Unless, perhaps, they were gay. Then, that is an entirely different situation. Anyhow, men have to perform whereas women can be passive.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 02:57 pm
@BillRM,
If her senses are impaired by alcohol then you should know she isn't in any shape to consent and that's taking advantage of her, which would equal rape.

Protect the rapist? Ugh.........................................................

Don't know if crying rape falsely should hold the same punishment but I agree it deserves punishment!

Sorry, this was from a pae or two ago and I didn't quote it.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 03:04 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
DNA, RAPE FREE Goggle search produce over 1.4 millions hits with a large percent of those hits dealing with men found innocents of rapes from DNA testings.

Now that's just a silly attempt to bolster your claims. Are you suggesting that every one of those sites is a link to a unique case? This says nothing about how many men have been exonerated by new DNA evidence.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 03:25 pm
@DrewDad,
So you wish to read into it more then I already stated that there is an ocean of information about men who serve time for rapes that was proven beyond question they did not do.
Intrepid
 
  3  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 03:32 pm
@BillRM,
There are also those who have been found guilty of murder, theft, assault, extortion and many other crimes who were not guilty.

An ocean of information does not equate to actual numbers regarding the rape situation. You do a lot of chest pounding with little or no actual backup.
0 Replies
 
 

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