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Fri 14 Sep, 2007 01:05 pm
From: The Los Angeles Times
Friday 14 September 2007
A British survey offers the highest estimate to date. At least 4 die in a Sadr City car bombing.
Baghdad - A car bomb blew up in the capital's Shiite Muslim neighborhood of Sadr City on Thursday, killing at least four people, as a new survey suggested that the civilian death toll from the war could be more than 1 million.
The figure from ORB, a British polling agency that has conducted several surveys in Iraq, followed statements this week from the U.S. military defending itself against accusations it was trying to play down Iraqi deaths to make its strategy appear successful.
The military has said civilian deaths from sectarian violence have fallen more than 55% since President Bush sent an additional 28,500 troops to Iraq this year, but it does not provide specific numbers.
According to the ORB poll, a survey of 1,461 adults suggested that the total number slain during more than four years of war was more than 1.2 million.
ORB said it drew its conclusion from responses to the question about those living under one roof: "How many members of your household, if any, have died as a result of the conflict in Iraq since 2003?"
Based on Iraq's estimated number of households - 4,050,597 - it said the 1.2 million figure was reasonable.
There was no way to verify the number, because the government does not provide a full count of civilian deaths. Neither does the U.S. military.
Both, however, say that independent organizations greatly exaggerate estimates of civilian casualties.
ORB said its poll had a margin of error of 2.4%. According to its findings, nearly one in two households in Baghdad had lost at least one member to war- related violence, and 22% of households nationwide had suffered at least one death. It said 48% of the victims were shot to death and 20% died as a result of car bombs, with other explosions and military bombardments blamed for most of the other fatalities.
The survey was conducted last month.
It was the highest estimate given so far of civilian deaths in Iraq. Last year, a study in the medical journal Lancet put the number at 654,965, which Iraq's government has dismissed as "ridiculous."
The car bomb in Sadr City injured at least 10 people and set fire to several shops. Also Thursday, police said they had found the bodies of nine people believed to be victims of sectarian killings across the capital.
In its latest salvo at Iran, the U.S. military accused the Islamic Republic of providing the 240-millimeter rocket that earlier this week slammed into Camp Victory, the sprawling base that houses the U.S. Army headquarters. The attack on the base near Baghdad's airport injured 11 soldiers and killed one "third-country national."
At a news conference, a military spokesman, Army Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner, displayed a chunk of metal that he said had come from the rocket. Asked how he could be sure it was of Iranian origin, Bergner said its color and markings were unique to rockets from Iran.
The United States accuses Iran's Shiite leaders of providing weapons, training and other assistance to Shiite militias fighting U.S. forces in Iraq. Iran denies the accusation.
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@FedUpAmerican,
Yeah 1million dead is Bush's fault right? Because Iraqis arent offing eachother in greater numbers than black on black in south central los angeles.
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;37058 wrote:Yeah 1million dead is Bush's fault right? Because Iraqis arent offing eachother in greater numbers than black on black in south central los angeles.
Saddam didn't put up with this kind of ****. He was an asshole, but he kept these people in line. I wish we could un-hang somebody.
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;37062 wrote:Saddam didn't put up with this kind of ****. He was an asshole, but he kept these people in line. I wish we could un-hang somebody.
You ARE an intelligent guy. <NOT SARCASM>
The Iraqi people were far better off with their previous dictator than the one they have now.
@FedUpAmerican,
FedUpAmerican;37064 wrote:You ARE an intelligent guy. <NOT SARCASM>
The Iraqi people were far better off with their previous dictator than the one they have now.
THEY CERTAINLY WERE,AT LEAST SADDAMS REGIME WAS A SECULAR REGIME,NOT A RADICAL ISLAMIC ONE.
@FedUpAmerican,
So our military puts up a children's school
a week later a terrorist blows up said school killing 20 kids
and that's Bush's fault?
That's what the cycle of violence looks like, and it's radical islam that's killing them
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;37074 wrote:So our military puts up a children's school
a week later a terrorist blows up said school killing 20 kids
and that's Bush's fault?
That's what the cycle of violence looks like, and it's radical islam that's killing them
Sure. We wouldn't HAVE to "put up" a school if WE didn't destroy the first one to begin with.
@FedUpAmerican,
Yeah well we didn't blow it up for the second time they did and that isn't Bush's fault
also allot of the stuff we're doing is free market stuff that Iraq has
never has (school's for women, etc)
you can't blame Bush for terror, terror was there, at least he's trying to do something to remove it
@FedUpAmerican,
It's really quite annoying that the same people who want the US out of Iraq with not a thought or care for the total genocide of some Muslim Clans that will ensue once the troops leave beak off here that those self same innocents are dying by american troops. How hypocrital are you people, you lament these deaths and yet could careless if the US cuts and runs and a wholesale slaughter ensues. Honestly, the stench of hypocrisy is overwelming. So the death of innocents only count if they are casualities of war but once you leave the blood dripping from your hands is okay? Right.
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;37083 wrote:Yeah well we didn't blow it up for the second time they did and that isn't Bush's fault
also allot of the stuff we're doing is free market stuff that Iraq has never has (school's for women, etc)
you can't blame Bush for terror, terror was there, at least he's trying to do something to remove it
Yeah we sure ARE doing something there and it's NOT good. YES terror was ther but all bush is doing is escalating it.
From what I can see terror has been growing since our ILLEGAL OCCUPATION of what was once a soverign nation.
@Red cv,
Red;37084 wrote:It's really quite annoying that the same people who want the US out of Iraq with not a thought or care for the total genocide of some Muslim Clans that will ensue once the troops leave beak off here that those self same innocents are dying by american troops. How hypocrital are you people, you lament these deaths and yet could careless if the US cuts and runs and a wholesale slaughter ensues.
LOL! Sure, everythings all rosy in Irag. Its been so since our ILLEGAL OCCUPATION.
Quote:
Honestly, the stench of hypocrisy is overwelming.
I suggest you trying using deodorant
Quote:
So the death of innocents only count if they are casualities of war but once you leave the blood dripping from your hands is okay? Right.
Oh sure, you really give a rats ass about the people of Iraq or anywhere else outside of your little world. LOL!!!!
@FedUpAmerican,
FedUpAmerican;37088 wrote:Yeah we sure ARE doing something there and it's NOT good. YES terror was ther but all bush is doing is escalating it.
From what I can see terror has been growing since our ILLEGAL OCCUPATION of what was once a sovereign nation.
Wrong Wrong and well wrong again
The Illegal Occupation Theory is wrong. Our attack was legal as per Saddam's non compliance with UN resolutions, I'm sure Saddam's Government doesn't want us there, but they aren't in power. The
freely elected government of the Iraqi people is there and we are in Iraq at their grace which we do have.
What we're doing is wrong? We're trying to hold fanatical, genocidal rebels at bay so we can set up shopping malls, schools, and hospitals for the Iraqi economy. How on earth is that a bad thing?
American Forces in the region have been reactionary since 2003 when the Bath party fell from power. From that time on we have been a peace keeping force which hunts for murderers and war criminals, and our only goal is to finish building the infrastructure and bring peace to the free people of Iraq so that we can come home.
I don't even know why I post in these threads, your stances are uneducated and uninspired.
in short the insurgency
should have a big problem with us being there, because we oppose tyranny, genocide, and sexism. If they supported us then I would begin to question what we were doing there
@FedUpAmerican,
FedUpAmerican;37064 wrote:You ARE an intelligent guy. <NOT SARCASM>
The Iraqi people were far better off with their previous dictator than the one they have now.
Bush is responsible for every evil deed ever committed by Mankind. No, it wasn't the Serpent who offered Eve an apple in the Garden. It was DICK and BUSH.
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;37102 wrote:Wrong Wrong and well wrong again
The Illegal Occupation Theory is wrong. Our attack was legal as per Saddam's non compliance with UN resolutions,
Try again. That resolution was from papa bushs war NOT juniors.
Quote:
I'm sure Saddam's Government doesn't want us there, but they aren't in power.
No ****. What about the Iraqi people???
Quote:
The freely elected government of the Iraqi people is there and we are in Iraq at their grace which we do have.
You certainly watch too much Fox news
Quote:
What we're doing is wrong?
Yup
Quote:
We're trying to hold fanatical, genocidal rebels at bay so we can set up shopping malls, schools, and hospitals for the Iraqi economy. How on earth is that a bad thing?
Shopping malls??? C'mon man you CAN'T be serious. There are NO malls in Iraq. They can't even maintain power and water. Thanks to our ILLEGAL OCCUPATION. Please be serious from now on.
Quote:
American Forces in the region have been reactionary since 2003 when the Bath party fell from power. From that time on we have been a peace keeping force which hunts for murderers and war criminals, and our only goal is to finish building the infrastructure and bring peace to the free people of Iraq so that we can come home.
First, the bath party did not fall from power, it was ILLEGALLY stripped from them at our militaries hands. We have NEVER been a peace keeping force in Iraq.
Quote:
I don't even know why I post in these threads, your stances are uneducated and uninspired.
Your stances are mental in nature. We quite obviously have two VERY different opinions. Mine are factual. Yours are delussional. Try citing the sources for your nonsense.
Quote:
in short the insurgency should have a big problem with us being there, because we oppose tyranny, genocide, and sexism.
What you say we oppose we are escalating by our ILLEGAL OCCUPATION.
Quote:
If they supported us then I would begin to question what we were doing there
What ARE we doing there? What is the excuse your sorry ass president is telling you now? Or do you get all of your info from O'Reilley and Coulter?
Or perhaps you get your info from Larry (seeking boy sex from a toilet) Craig that is confused about what guilty and not guilty means.
The Republican party is filled with nonsensical delussional psychopaths that wouldn't know reality or the truth if it was dressed as a pre-teen altar boy.
Here, check this out:
My Views About bush
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;37112 wrote:Bush is responsible for every evil deed ever committed by Mankind.
Thats quite silly. Not EVER, just the last near seven years.
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;37058 wrote:Yeah 1million dead is Bush's fault right? Because Iraqis arent offing eachother in greater numbers than black on black in south central los angeles.
What a racist comment....how do blacks figure into the equation of the Iraqi War?
Black on black crime, in any urban setting, is a concern..and the root causes are myriad. Certainly, it is a problem which the black community as a whole has to address...without snide remarks from disinterested parties, who, no doubt, "gloat" at the idea. Yet, I'm deemed "a racist" for pointing out the obvious "racism' in others...Stop making race an issue, and it will be a non sequitur.
Millions dead.....yeah, Bush and Co.'s fault....no question.
@FedUpAmerican,
FedUpAmerican;37128 wrote:Thats quite silly. Not EVER, just the last near seven years.
We had that same statement on our bunker in the rear AO. here it is in use again 40 years later. We only saw the rear AO every 15 to 20 days for maybe 3 days.
hummmmmm fact is we as humans haven't learned a thing in that time. Ask Whom gets us in this mess and Why?
But the developments of the land warrior is clearly inproved. Man the equipment they have now over what junk we used in the Nam. Bush has spent some $ well.
And the number of deaths. Like in 5 years in the jungles of Nam, there were around 40,000 or around that number. Look at the fact i 5-7 years in two countries an dthe nmbers are under 2,000. As a grunt I know that sonds real good.
Yes war is not healthy for the creaters God, created or his grand work humans (he might of failer to see how Free Will of Choice, was a bad choice on His part. Which I really doubt. I like the idea He, might enjoy a joke)
But He, told us it would be happening in many places and even His, return would be the final battle. Gosh I love being alive now, in this time period.
Besides we don't count for squat on th etopic. The manchne just slowly grinds away like our HWY bridges. lol
@FedUpAmerican,
Oh I see. It's bush's imaginary friends fault.
@FedUpAmerican,
It's also the guys fault who keep funding his actions.
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;37062 wrote:Saddam didn't put up with this kind of ****. He was an ***, but he kept these people in line. I wish we could un-hang somebody.
Yeah...and he also caused the first Persian Guld War. :gotsearch:
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