Blatham -- There are some treasures in the Chomsky discussion, not least of which were his comments on Canada. I particularly like: "The world is far better off with power diffused" as I reread him this morning. And it works well with something else I've been reading this morning, and that's Garton Ash's piece in the 9/25 NYRB about "Orwell's List," and its reminders that governments as a whole (and within individual departments), and of course elected leaders spend over 50% of their time perpetuating themselves quite undemocratically. Agencies have secret budgets which allow them to declare emergencies and enlarge their power to "cope" with these often fictitious emergencies. Presidents spend most of their time -- yes, I think most of their time -- making sure they have the wherewithal and the political support to stay in office until the last possible hour.
I have been thinking lately that the only way to preserve freedom is to enlarge the checks and balances. And I'm not kidding when I say that I won't trust our voting procedures unless they have foreign observers. Eventually, of course, everyone is corruptable and the irony is that there is no group more corrupt at the moment that the American people, quite apart from our leadership.
tart
Pretty frustrating, isn't it?
You know, I figured something out last night which had previously escaped me. I wrote of it as a goodbye post to the Rough Beast thread. That is, that the Americanism we keep bumping into isn't best thought of as nationalism, but as a 'movement' akin to Marxism.
Another element I find so frustrating here, and in so much popular discussion on these issues, is the lack of disciplined scholarship. The discussion levels are too often of the grade school quality - cliches and myths repeated endlessly with varying degrees of anger and volume.
When folks get more deeply into a study of America, or, as with you and dys who both spent many formative years away, or with folks who hail from elsewhere, the mythologies that prop up so many people's notions of America become more visible for what they are - agreeable narratives and sacred stories.
Take three such scholars...Hofstadter, Chomsky and Strauss. Though all three would differ on how the institutions ought to be designed and weighted, or on what is 'good' about America (or even, in the case of Strauss whether citizens even ought to be encouraged towards understanding their own country and its myths) all three understand clearly the mythological component in American self-regard.
Tart wrote:Eventually, of course, everyone is corruptable and the irony is that there is no group more corrupt at the moment that the American people, quite apart from our leadership.
Yeah, that seems to be a growing Activist Democrat perception. Go with that. That'll get lots of support from "The American People" ... just don't expect that support to go to The Democrats.
Okay, Blatham, so what do we do about it? I mean in terms of finding a place for these discussions. You know I agree with you wholeheartedly, though I fault you for losing the Rough Beast thread. If you're tolerant of the mythomaniacs, they'll hug you. It's not a hug I want.
tart
That's a tough one. I don't know. I like all these guys personally (well, except one or two), and whenever I'm down there (soon to be more permanently) I like American folks-on-the-street just as much as Canadians. So, it's an educational matter (though that is just what is frustrating) and an activist matter, as Chomsky realistically suggests over and over. Perhaps I am just being a bit wimpy and romantic, wishing it were an easier task, this citizenship thing. I think I'll just walk around my house naked all day, eating nothing but ice cream and fried chicken, listening to some Ira Gershwin songs and trying to remember inspirational words from my grandma.
That ought to do it.
Mind if I join you?
Ira Gershwin? damn I thought You meant IRA lyrics:
Quote:In the land of the potato, the Guiness and the Stone.
If you don't believe in Irish luck, then they'll blow up your home!
You see, they have themselves an army - they like killing freaks!
So if you are not shot and killed, they'll get to you next week!
Hooray! Hooray for the IRA!
Killing people indiscriminately!
Hooray! Hooray for the IRA!
I know if I crouch down, they won't kill me!
They're Irish and they're Catholic - they're Protestants as well!
So all other religions, well you can go to hell!
You see, they love killing each other for something to do!
So they don't need a good excuse for coming after you
Hooray! Hooray for the IRA!
Killing people indiscriminately!
Hooray! Hooray for the IRA!
I know I should shout loud enough, but they will all still give a stuff
And that is why they're coming after me!
Tartarin wrote:Okay, Blatham, so what do we do about it? I mean in terms of finding a place for these discussions. You know I agree with you wholeheartedly, though I fault you for losing the Rough Beast thread. If you're tolerant of the mythomaniacs, they'll hug you. It's not a hug I want.
I would change this to read: If you're tolerant of leftist elitists, they will slap you on the back. It's not a slap on the back I want.
Blatham wrote:And that relates directly to Bush's thanksgiving visit to 600 soldiers in a hangar in Iraq. Would he have done this without cameras and reporters? Not a chance in hell. It was brilliant PR, and that is ALL it was. That 600 soldiers got a pick-me-up was irrelevant. The event was not about them at all.
Damn Blatham that is "over the top cynicism" even for you you.
blatham, I'm in agreement with most of your posts, but on this one issue, I must disagree. I really feel it was good for those 600 troops to see their commander in chief - a experience of a lifetime for most to see their president without judging the motivations. If anybody needed a morale booster, it was those troops in Iraq. I think the pres accomplished that.
Emphasis added by me.
Quote:Bush buoys troops but Iraq plan frays
By Steve Holland, Alissa Rubin
Baghdad
November 29, 2003
Print this article
Email to a friend
George Bush sheds a tear on his visit to Baghdad.
Photo: REUTERS
US President George Bush secretly flew to Baghdad for Thanksgiving dinner with US troops on Thursday in a bid to boost the morale of American forces amid mounting casualties and political pressure at home.
In an elaborate plan to ensure his security, Mr Bush slipped away from his Texas ranch on Wednesday, arrived in Iraq on Thursday and spent 21/2 hours with the troops, becoming the first US president to visit Iraq.
"I bring a message on behalf of America: We thank you for your service, we are proud of you and America stands solidly behind you," an emotional Mr Bush told about 600 soldiers, who were shocked to see the President at the heavily fortified Baghdad International Airport.
With the US economy perking up, Iraq is emerging as perhaps the greatest threat to Mr Bush's re-election next year as American occupation troops suffer almost daily casualties.
His surprise appearance was greeted by thunderous applause and enthusiasm from soldiers. Mr Bush became teary-eyed when he emerged to loud cheering. "I was just looking for a warm meal somewhere," he said. "Thanks for inviting me to dinner." He spoke in the face of a guerilla insurgency in which more than 180 US soldiers have died since he declared major combat operations over in May.
"Those who attack our coalition forces and kill innocent Iraqis are testing our will. They hope we will run," he said. "We did not charge hundreds of miles through the heart of Iraq, pay a bitter cost of casualties, defeat a ruthless dictator and liberate 25 million people only to retreat before a band of thugs and assassins.
"We will prevail. We will win because our cause is just."
His lightning stop came as US efforts to return sovereignty to Iraqis more swiftly have become snarled and the international community is pressing for a greater role. The US-backed plan to give Iraqis sovereignty appeared to be unravelling yesterday as a leading politician backed complaints by Shiite authorities that the process was not democratic enough.
Jalal Talabani, president of the Iraqi Governing Council, emerged from a meeting with the country's leading Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali Hussein Sistani, saying he agreed with Ayatollah Sistani's criticism.
"I see the views of his grace as logical and reasonable, and I agree with them," said Mr Talabani, a Sunni Muslim and the leader of one of Iraq's two main Kurdish parties. Ayatollah Sistani's grievances are a serious setback for the Americans.
Renegotiating the deal could delay the handover of sovereignty, jeopardising efforts to diminish the US presence in Iraq and undercutting the White House's insistence that it is in control of the situation. Coalition officials and the Iraqis insist that they do not want a confrontation, but the situation puts two of the most powerful people in Iraq at odds: Ayatollah Sistani and Paul Bremer, the US administrator of the country. At issue is the deal signed on November 15 by Mr Bremer and the Governing Council. Under the plan, the council would dissolve, and an interim government would serve until a constitution was approved and a permanent government elected.
The White House, aware that it risks losing its battle for the hearts and minds of Iraqis, and facing daily US casualties, is eager to reduce US visibility on the ground. However, it wants to ensure that a friendly government emerges in Iraq.
[/color][/i]
- Reuters, Los Angeles Times
SOURCE
Reports now are that The Iraq Trip was planned in October, and that the coincident timing of Hillary's jaunt was merely serendipitous. None of which detracts from the simple fact that, at core, both trips were purely stunts staged for the credulous mob. Nor does it alter the fact that the PR win did not go to Hillary.
timber, Why look at both of these events as PR wins or lose? Isn't it more important that the troops got a morale uplift from these visits? I wish more of our elected officials would do the same to understand what's going on in both theaters of war.
It's often difficult to seperate the ingredients of political actions, PR, interest, intent etc.
Hey, I don't discount the morale boost at all. That was great. It might even have been a key motivator in the development of plans for the Iraq Trip. But both trips were PR stunts, plain and simple, and when considering them as coincidently occurring media events, a winner is clearly discerned. Hillary laid down a full house. It was trumped by a royal flush.
not so sure about the royal flush slam dunk as PR, just this moment i checked the MSNBC poll and it shows a 50/50 split on what message was conveyed by the excursion.
A week from now, both trips will be less important to most folks than snapshots of the neighbor's vacation from five years ago. Politics and PR are both minute-to-minute games.
I ask you, does this man need PR?
Dear Fellow Americans,
I attacked and took over 2 countries.
I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the US Treasury.
I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history (not easy!).
I set an economic record for the most personal bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.
Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (The poorest multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.)
I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history (tough to beat my dad's, but I did).
I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any president in US history.
I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any other president in US history.
I set the all-time record for most real estate foreclosures in a 12-month period.
I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president, since the advent of TV.
I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other US president in history.
I cut health care benefits for war veterans.
I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in any country in the history of the world.
I am the first president in US history to compel the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.
I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.
I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant. I withdrew from the World Court of Law.
I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.
I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.
I took the world's sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All minutes of meetings of any public corporation for which I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.
Well, maybe a little would be helpfull ......
CI -- I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I think the Bush visit to the troops was one more example of image over substance. If the man had any grit and character, those poor guys wouldn't be there to begin with. Papering it over with a flashy fly-by just doesn't do it for this citizen.
CBS (radio) news this morning billed Bush's visit as a part of the "War on Terrorism," by the way: "For an update on the war on terrorism, we go to Baghdad for a report on the president's visit..."