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THE US, UN AND IRAQ V

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 09:00 am
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg


Quote:
The U.S., which followed developments in the Iran-Iraq war with extraordinary intensity, had intelligence confirming Iran's accusations, and describing Iraq's "almost daily" use of chemical weapons, concurrent with its policy review and decision to support Iraq in the war [Document 24]. The intelligence indicated that Iraq used chemical weapons against Iranian forces, and, according to a November 1983 memo, against "Kurdish insurgents" as well [Document 25].

What was the Reagan administration's response? A State Department account indicates that the administration had decided to limit its "efforts against the Iraqi CW program to close monitoring because of our strict neutrality in the Gulf war, the sensitivity of sources, and the low probability of achieving desired results." But the department noted in late November 1983 that "with the essential assistance of foreign firms, Iraq ha[d] become able to deploy and use CW and probably has built up large reserves of CW for further use. Given its desperation to end the war, Iraq may again use lethal or incapacitating CW, particularly if Iran threatens to break through Iraqi lines in a large-scale attack" [Document 25]. The State Department argued that the U.S. needed to respond in some way to maintain the credibility of its official opposition to chemical warfare, and recommended that the National Security Council discuss the issue.

Following further high-level policy review, Ronald Reagan issued National Security Decision Directive (NSDD) 114, dated November 26, 1983, concerned specifically with U.S. policy toward the Iran-Iraq war. The directive reflects the administration's priorities: it calls for heightened regional military cooperation to defend oil facilities, and measures to improve U.S. military capabilities in the Persian Gulf, and directs the secretaries of state and defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to take appropriate measures to respond to tensions in the area. It states, "Because of the real and psychological impact of a curtailment in the flow of oil from the Persian Gulf on the international economic system, we must assure our readiness to deal promptly with actions aimed at disrupting that traffic." It does not mention chemical weapons [Document 26].

Soon thereafter, Donald Rumsfeld (who had served in various positions in the Nixon and Ford administrations, including as President Ford's defense secretary, and at this time headed the multinational pharmaceutical company G.D. Searle & Co.) was dispatched to the Middle East as a presidential envoy. His December 1983 tour of regional capitals included Baghdad, where he was to establish "direct contact between an envoy of President Reagan and President Saddam Hussein," while emphasizing "his close relationship" with the president [Document 28]. Rumsfeld met with Saddam, and the two discussed regional issues of mutual interest, shared enmity toward Iran and Syria, and the U.S.'s efforts to find alternative routes to transport Iraq's oil; its facilities in the Persian Gulf had been shut down by Iran, and Iran's ally, Syria, had cut off a pipeline that transported Iraqi oil through its territory. Rumsfeld made no reference to chemical weapons, according to detailed notes on the meeting [Document 31].

Rumsfeld also met with Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz, and the two agreed, "the U.S. and Iraq shared many common interests." Rumsfeld affirmed the Reagan administration's "willingness to do more" regarding the Iran-Iraq war, but "made clear that our efforts to assist were inhibited by certain things that made it difficult for us, citing the use of chemical weapons, possible escalation in the Gulf, and human rights." He then moved on to other U.S. concerns [Document 32]. Later, Rumsfeld was assured by the U.S. interests section that Iraq's leadership had been "extremely pleased" with the visit, and that "Tariq Aziz had gone out of his way to praise Rumsfeld as a person" [Document 36 and Document 37].

Rumsfeld returned to Baghdad in late March 1984. By this time, the U.S. had publicly condemned Iraq's chemical weapons use, stating, "The United States has concluded that the available evidence substantiates Iran's charges that Iraq used chemical weapons" [Document 47]. Briefings for Rumsfeld's meetings noted that atmospherics in Iraq had deteriorated since his December visit because of Iraqi military reverses and because "bilateral relations were sharply set back by our March 5 condemnation of Iraq for CW use, despite our repeated warnings that this issue would emerge sooner or later" [Document 48]. Rumsfeld was to discuss with Iraqi officials the Reagan administration's hope that it could obtain Export-Import Bank credits for Iraq, the Aqaba pipeline, and its vigorous efforts to cut off arms exports to Iran. According to an affidavit prepared by one of Rumsfeld's companions during his Mideast travels, former NSC staff member Howard Teicher, Rumsfeld also conveyed to Iraq an offer from Israel to provide assistance, which was rejected [Document 61].



Source and rest of article + links
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 10:34 am
Quote:
http://www.news.com.au/images/logo_news2001.gif
Iraqi insurgency leader surrenders
By Peter Wilson in Baghdad and agencies
December 17, 2003

THE reputed head of the Iraqi insurgency surrendered to US forces at dawn yesterday, Al-Arabiya television reported last night.

The reported surrender of Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, the highest ranking member of the former regime still at large, follows the arrest at the weekend of two leaders of the insurgency along with Saddam Hussein ...


However, Gen. Meyers, in an interview this morning, Casts Doubt on the report of al-Douri's detention:
Quote:
Myers cast doubt on regional news reports about the arrest of Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, who is the highest-ranking member of Saddam's former regime still at large and is thought to be organizing anti-U.S. attacks.

"We heard the same thing. We chased that down. We are not aware that has taken place," he said.


The rumor mill is smokin', that's for sure.

New from the fringes of reportage; Debka , the prolific, and perhaps the first, source of "Bodyguard Stories", posits:

Quote:
DEBKAfile's military and intelligence sources reveal that Washington and Dr. David Kay, senior US and coalition WMD hunter in Iraq - far from groping in the dark for Saddam's prohibited weapons, as conventionally believed - have a very good idea of where they are hidden.

The search has narrowed down to a section of the Syrian Desert known as Dayr Az-Zawr in Syria's 600 sq. mile Al Jazirah province, which is wedged between the Turkish and Iraqi borders. The missing weapons systems are thought to be buried somewhere under these desert sands. This area is now probably the most keenly watched area on earth - from its outer periphery. At its eastern edge, US special force units, Predator drones and reconnaissance airplanes and satellites make sure no one steps into this ultra-sensitive patch of desert. Turkish special forces, intelligence and air force units are guarding it from the northwest. The Syrians are nowhere to be seen, acting as though the target-area does not concern them.



Somewhere in the smoke and mirrors of the opinion and rumor poppycock popper, there occasionaly pops a kernel of subtantive, substantiated truth. The hard part is ferreting it out from amongst all the rest of the ordinary poppycock.
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:13 pm
Sistani

I've read considerable stuff similar to what McKensie is saying about Sistani not wanting to replicate what the other Shiite Ayatollahs have done in Iran. I have also read that he wants the UN to come in and supervise the election process. I would be in favor of that----anything that would put a more legitimate face on creating a secular gov't in Iraq would be most welcome.

My question is-----would the UN stay after they take another hit. By running the first time they will have made themselves the most obvious target for further attacks if they come back just as we did when we rapidly withdrew from Somalia. Signs of weakness and lack of commitment breed contempt from terrorists.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:28 pm
Umm ... Errrr.... ahhhh..... maybe they don't want to get shot or blown up ... you know there is a lot of death associated with that stuff ....
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:29 pm
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:35 pm
Well, obviously Israel had had very realistic plans to kill Saddam in 1992:
Quote:
Israeli media reported Tuesday that Sayeret Matkal, the IDF General Staff's elite special-operations force, trained in 1992 to assassinate Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein in a daring operation that would have landed commandos in Iraq and fired sophisticated missiles at him during a funeral.
LINK
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:37 pm
"Captured Saddam" figure, just in time for the holidays!

Quote:
It didn't take long, and just in time for the holidays, the "Captured Saddam," action figure, presumably fresh out of an imaginary spider-hole, has been rushed to store shelves.

"We got him," advertises Herobuilders.com. "We are thrilled at the fact that we can respond to new world circumstances within 24 hours.

"We still mold and hand paint each and every action figure right here in the Good Old USA," adds the company which specializes in political playthings, and also is proud to feature Uday Hussein and macabre DOA (dead on arrival) Uday dolls.


http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20031216/thumb.sge.paw97.161203160732.photo00.default-282x384.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:51 pm
Perhaps it will even sell better than this

http://www2.warnerbros.com/madmagazine/files/onthestands/ots_437/images/6.jpg
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 01:01 pm
http://www.allhatnocattle.net/crotched.jpg
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 01:05 pm
Baker's mission to relieve Iraqi debt woes may be having more success than would be convenient to the prejuduces of some:
Quote:
http://wwwi.reuters.com/com/images/reuters.gif
US welcomes help from Germany, France on Iraq debt[/b]
Tue December 16, 2003 01:30 PM ET


WASHINGTON, Dec 16 (Reuters) - The White House said on Tuesday it welcomed commitments by Germany and France to help rebuild Iraq and reduce its debt burden, and said the United States would "do our part as well."
"We appreciate the commitments they made on the need to restructure and reduce the debt burden," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters.

A German government spokesman said Germany, France and the United States agreed they were prepared to offer substantial debt relief to Iraq to aid the country's reconstruction.

McClellan would not say what Washington would commit to the debt reduction initiative, but added, "We'll do our part as well."

"The United States is the one that led this effort to remove the regime from power. We have made significant contributions along with coalition forces," McClellan said.

"We remain committed to seeing that through and we will see it through. ... I think you can continue to expect the United States to do our part to help the Iraqi people."

U.S. special envoy James Baker is in Europe seeking support for a debt relief deal for Iraq and trying to ease a trans-Atlantic row over contracts to rebuild Iraq.


© Reuters 2003. All Rights Reserved.



Meanwhile, in Iraq, overall attacks are down ;

Quote:
... Kimmitt said there were 18 engagements between Iraqi guerrillas and U.S.-led coalition forces in the past week, a marked decline over previous weeks.

"These numbers are significantly lower than recent norms, although we anticipate and are fully prepared for any upturn in attacks in the days and weeks ahead," he said ...


Things appear to be going unwell for those who posit that things are not going well.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 01:14 pm
Quote:
Baker's mission to relieve Iraqi debt woes may be having more success than would be convenient to the prejuduces of some:

Who here has hoped for:
a) US failure in Iraq?
b) Hope that the Economy would collapse?
c) Hope that the rest of the world would avoid attempting reconstruction in Iraq (despite US hindrance)?
d) any of the other stupid things those of you who call yourselves conservatives accuse the "liberals" of?

I think its high time you guys learned simple discussion skills.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 01:15 pm
Timber, who empowered the U.S. to arbitrate Iraq's debt?

Sounds like you are ready for that big move to that condo of your dreams in beautiful downtown Baghdad.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 01:18 pm
Quote:
http://www.news.com.au/images/logo_news2001.gif
Saddam betrayed by his wife

December 17, 2003

SADDAM Hussein was captured in a filthy underground hole because of the demands of the one woman he still trusted.

She is Samira Shahbander, the second of his four wives.

And now she may receive part of, if not all, of the $US25million ($33.8 million) bounty the US Government promised for information that led to the capture of the Iraqi dictator.

Israeli intelligence agency Mossad had been tailing her since she fled to Beirut, Lebanon, before the US invasion.

In a tapped phone call last Thursday she arranged to meet the former dictator that weekend after demanding more cash ...

Never underestimate a cash-strapped woman scorned Laughing
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 01:44 pm
Quote:
16 Dec 2003 18:18
http://www.reuters.com/locales/images/en_IN/topreuterslogo.gif
Fewer Palestinians back suicide bombings - poll

RAMALLAH, West Bank (Reuters) - Palestinian public support for suicide bomb attacks in Israel has dropped to its lowest level in three years of Middle East conflict, according to a poll released on Tuesday.

Palestinian President Yasser Arafat's rating also declined but he remained more than twice as popular as any other public figure, the survey by the Palestinian Centre for Policy and Survey Research (PSR) found.

In a report on its web site, it said 48 percent favoured suicide bombings -- less than half for the first time since March 2000, six months before an uprising against Israel erupted as U.S.-brokered peace talks broke down.

Fifty-nine percent polled by the independent institute in October backed suicide attacks, staying within a range of slightly over half dating back to the start of the bloodshed.

Another poll by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics of Palestinians aged 10 to 24 found a majority opposed suicide bombings but gave no figure. It said 57.8 percent wanted peace negotiations with Israel to resume.

In the PSR's latest representative survey of 1,319 adults, support for militant attacks on Israeli soldiers and settlers in occupied West Bank and Gaza territory remained high at 87 percent.

But 83 percent also supported a complete, mutual ceasefire and 53 percent said they would back a Palestinian Authority crackdown on militants who violated such a truce.

But 80 percent worried that such a crackdown could lead to civil war -- a reason often cited by Palestinian leaders for rebuffing Israeli demands to break up militant groups.

A U.S.-backed "road map" peace plan charts reciprocal steps including an end to militant violence and a freeze on Jewish settlement to pave the way for a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza by 2005.

Palestinians backing suicide bombings, carried out mainly by people in their teens and twenties, have regarded them as the only way to counter Israel's overwhelming military might.

But recent polls have detected waning support for violence that has brought little but Israeli military crackdowns imposing hardship on the population at large, and growing support for a mutual ceasefire to revitalise peacemaking.

Arafat's support fell in the PSR poll to 38 percent from 50 percent in October and his Fatah movement slipped into a tie at 25 percent with the two main Islamist militant factions.

But most Palestinians -- 40 percent -- professed no political affiliation, continuing a trend.

The PSR questioned 1,319 people from December 4 to 9 and the PCBS surveyed 5,600. Both had a three percent margin of error.


I suspect strongly that this is not unrelated to developments in Iraq.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 01:44 pm
Yes, all those trustful reports:
Quote:
LONDON (AFX) - Media watchdog Independent Television Commission said it has fined BSkyB's satellite station Sky News 50,000 stg over a faked report during the war with Iraq.

Sky correspondent James Forlong claimed to have a live exclusive showing a missile being fired at Iraq from the British Royal Navy submarine HMS Splendid.

But it later emerged that at the time of the supposed firing the submarine had been docked, with the dramatic coverage comprising a mixture of library footage and a fake missile launch process staged for the cameras by crew.

Forlong, 44, resigned in July as a result of the incident. He committed suicide in October.

The watchdog ruled that his report breached guidelines on accuracy and misled viewers.

It said: "Audiences are reliant on the accuracy of news reports, particularly during times of war."

The television commission said, however, that Sky "did not seek to evade or minimise the importance of what had occurred".

It was an isolated incident "and the only occasion when Sky's reporting of the Iraq war had been called into question".

The commission also noted that Forlong was an experienced journalist whose reports had never previously proved to be inaccurate.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 02:15 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
Baker's mission to relieve Iraqi debt woes may be having more success than would be convenient to the prejuduces of some:

Who here has hoped for:
a) US failure in Iraq?
b) Hope that the Economy would collapse?
c) Hope that the rest of the world would avoid attempting reconstruction in Iraq (despite US hindrance)?
d) any of the other stupid things those of you who call yourselves conservatives accuse the "liberals" of?

I think its high time you guys learned simple discussion skills.


Lets look at "discussion skills ... no claim was made that any had "hoped for' calamity; an observation was made that some, by the tone, style, and content of their interactions here, seem to expect it.
A further observation is made that when such contention is challenged, when news and commentary suggesting those expectations of calamity are unmet, those inclined to be critical take umbrage.
And yet another observation is offered; criticism of conservatives and/or the conservative point of view appears, on these boards, to be more politically correct than criticism of liberals and/or that point of view. That in itself is telling.

Gel wrote:
Timber, who empowered the U.S. to arbitrate Iraq's debt?

Sounds like you are ready for that big move to that condo of your dreams in beautiful downtown Baghdad.

I would submit that the needs of The Iraqi People are served by efforts to lighten their burden and to assist in the reconstitution of their society. It would appear France and Germany may be of the same opinion, at last. Of course, they could perhaps just be angling for a piece of the pie, though I prefer to think their motives not so mean. I further submit that some, by their words and actions, dimish the credibility of their claim to tolerance and reason.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 02:24 pm
Quote:
no claim was made that any had "hoped for' calamity; an observation was made that some, by the tone, style, and content of their interactions here, seem to expect it.

Timber, you and George frequently have implied on the econ thread (among others) that "liberals" wish for the economy to tank.
McGentrix, Percy, etc.. frequently opine: "You liberals can't wait for a saddam victory, " etc.... Explain this one to me. We "liberals" have done no such thing. I agree Gel's comment was as petty as the ones you guys haev made, but just because both sides do it doesn't make it proper behaviour, and detracts from the argument being made.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 02:24 pm
timberlandko wrote:


I suspect strongly that this is not unrelated to developments in Iraq.


And upon what would you base that claim? I hope it's not just the optimism of the much touted "ripple effect". The support for the intifada has been declining for months (with periodic reversals in the trend that are sparked by Israeli actions) and it started long before the Iraq war was supposed to be the solution to all international woes.

Palestinians are among the most suportive of Saddam in the region. Their peoples have been documented showing support for Saddam after his capture. They have been bomvbed for years and don't seem to fear it. You'd have a hard time making a case that the war in Iraq scared them straight.

So, what cause do you have to assert that their war weariness is related to Iraq? They have been weary of the intifada for some time. Their leaders have stated that their declining support for it is sourced in it's failure to bring them any of their goals, not some vindication of Bush's policy that you propose.

So it's fair to ask why you appropriate that poll to support the war in Iraq. The "ripple effect" is one thing, appropriating any positive news and using it to support one's position is another.

Otherwise it's not much better than claiming the $20 bill I found yesterday is a positive development of the war in Iraq.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 02:27 pm
Quote:
Otherwise it's not much better than claiming the $20 bill I found yesterday is a positive development of the war in Iraq.

One of my whitebelts figured out hot to do a roundhouse kick without knocking himself over last night...thank you George Bush for catching Saddam...Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 02:30 pm
Bottom Line

Let's not tip toe around this. If you believe that the United States should not have initiated its military action against Iraq, then you believe that Saddam Hussein should have been left to do whatever it is he was doing as the Iraqi dictator. Simple linear logic. To say that you oppose the very action that deposed the dictator is to say that you would prefer that Saddam still be in power. Don't give me that "Yes, I'm glad that Saddam is out of power, but we shouldn't have done this" nonsense.

This is like telling a friend "Yes, I'm glad to see that that nasty little compound fracture of your left leg is healed, but I'm still really upset with you for going to a doctor." If you didn't want your friend to go to a doctor, then you didn't want your friend's leg to heal. If you didn't want the US to take military action against Saddam Hussein, then you didn't want him deposed. You wanted him to remain in power.
0 Replies
 
 

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