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THE US, UN AND IRAQ V

 
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 09:29 pm
From Salam Pax
The images they use are mainly from the al-Jazeera and Arabiyah networks - seriously bad stuff.


What was really amazing was the courage she had in criticising mosque sheikhs who are calling these attacks Jihad and giving the attackers some sort of credibility.

I like this guy.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 09:29 pm
In Iraq andAfghanistan anti-American sentiment grows by the day. We are told that any government post Saddam must be an Iraqi government, not one crafted by the U.S. of hand picked mini Saddams. For some reason, our choice of leaders to back has been nothing but abysmal so I can't really say I blame them.
Globalization is coming and surprise ... not one of the pnac variety. And it will not be a globalization that can be created by force or by placing sanctions on a body of people that end up killing and maiming an entire population, depriving them of basic humanitarian needs just because they lack the means or determination to overthrow a ruthless tyrant.
We cannot stop the march upward from the primordial soup that started us on our journey, just as sure as we are of one species ... we are destined to become one people and beyond, citizens of Earth.
To be sure, along the path there are selfish forces that seek only their own progression ... there are mistakes to be made .... and there are detours to avoid ... just look how far we've come separately, just think of how far we can go together.
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 10:02 pm
Kara wrote:
If you can reduce our atrocities to a "post war mess," then you and I have no conversation.


Atrocities should be used to describe Saddams actions---I believe Amnesty International would number his murders over one Million. If you count the deaths of all his wars then the total is more like 20 million.

If you put our actions in that category then you and I have no further need for discussion.

Quite frankly I don't care if you have nightmares every night for the rest of your life but unfortunately they will never be as bad as those of the parents,wives and children of our soldiers who have died to prevent any more of Saddams REAL"Atrocities".

Kara wrote:
Steve, this kind of thought awakens me at midnight. Has this engine become a self-perpetuating agent of destruction? A force of any kind can feed on its own internal power. I have never had such fear for the future of this country.


Kara
It would appear that you have swallowed every fruitcake allegation that the leftwing nuts have thrown out and have stopped thinking for yourself. You would be "right at home" in Hollywood. The land of Jane Fonda, Susan Saranden, Tim Robbins and Sean Penn.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 10:06 pm
Rolling Eyes
from a post I made many many months ago;
what do the dead say?
does the soldier's tongue blather of honor?
does the child's lips ask for her heart back?
the old man does not ask for water.
does freedom ring in the ears of the dead?
does the despot beg for mercy?
to the dead it doesn't matter,
what do the dead say?
nothing.
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 10:27 pm
What about those the dead leave behind? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 10:45 pm
Perception, so true about Amnesty International's concerns for Iraqis under Hussein's rule; if you want to know what Amnesty International thinks of our humane and well thought out plans for the war's aftermath, read on.....oh, and if you only read one poster's thoughts on the debilitating effects of this administration's reign on us and the rest of the world, you would do well to read everything Kara has written.

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/irq-faq-eng#1

Amnesty International and the Iraq conflict
An overview of Amnesty International's concerns and position on the conflict in Iraq.

© AFP/Odd Anderson


Further information
Field Updates from Amnesty International's mission to Basra

Video: AI Secretary General Irene Khan discussing Amnesty International's main concerns on the war in Iraq.


Take action
Act now to protect human rights in Iraq!



17 April 2003

The aftermath of conflict in Iraq
Protecting civilians and the rules of war
Public order and safety
Humanitarian assistance
Ensuring justice for human rights abuses
Use of indiscriminate weapons
Prisoners of war
Protection of refugees
Global backlash against human rights
Human rights in Iraq before the conflict


1. The aftermath of conflict in Iraq

The situation in Iraq is currently one of great uncertainty. The Iraqi government and governmental agencies have collapsed, but sporadic fighting is continuing. Looting and violence has been widespread, and in some areas people have been forcibly displaced, further adding to the hardship of the Iraqi population. The US and UK forces have yet to restore order and ensure the provision of humanitarian assistance in the areas they control. Beyond immediate concerns, the duration of the military presence of the USA and UK is unknown, prospects for an effective Iraqi transitional authority are unclear and there is disagreement over the role of the UN.

The most difficult challenge for Iraq lies ahead: to ensure that in the post-conflict period human rights stand at the centre of reconstruction efforts. Addressing impunity for past violations, building a fair and effective justice system, ensuring respect for the rights of all without discrimination on grounds of religion, ethnicity or gender, and insisting that the Iraqi people themselves drive the process forward - all will be of central importance.

The US and UK forces, as occupying powers under international law, have clear obligations to protect the Iraqi population. However, the authority of the occupying powers is transitional and limited to providing protection and assistance to the occupied population in the emergency created by war. They cannot, for example, change the legal system or introduce the radical reforms in the Iraqi criminal justice system needed to ensure respect for human rights. Only a newly established Iraqi government, or a UN transitional administration set up by the Security Council, would have such authority under international law.

AI believes that ensuring full respect for human rights must be central to any arrangements. Beyond the provision of humanitarian assistance, the UN should:

deploy human rights monitors throughout Iraq as soon as the security situation allows;
establish a commission of experts to develop, in close consultation with Iraqi civil society, proposals for a comprehensive program to ensure justice for past and recent human rights abuses, centred on the need to reform the Iraqi criminal justice system.

Before the military action against Iraq began on 20 March, AI repeatedly warned of the grave risk of widespread disorder, humanitarian crisis and human rights abuses, including revenge attacks, once the Iraqi government's authority was removed. It urged the international community to pursue solutions that would lead to improvement in the human rights situation in Iraq, and to use force only as a last resort in accordance with the UN Charter. AI never supports or opposes "regime change" and does not comment on whether the use of military force is justified or appropriate. It is concerned solely with the protection of human rights and whether human rights and humanitarian law are being respected in the way a conflict is fought.

Related documents:
Iraq: The need to deploy human rights monitors - March 2003
Iraq: Ensuring justice for human rights abuses - April 2003
Iraq: Responsibilities of the occupying powers - 14 April 2003

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2. Protecting civilians and the rules of war

The immediate challenge is still to ensure respect for the laws of war in the conduct of hostilities be they current or potential. AI has sought assurances from all parties to the conflict that they will do their utmost to comply with their obligations under international human rights and humanitarian law.

International humanitarian law is the body of rules and principles that seek to protect those who are not participating in the hostilities, including civilians but also combatants who are wounded or captured.

All parties to the conflict must issue clear instructions to their forces:


prohibiting any direct attacks against civilians or civilian objects (including in reprisal);
prohibiting attacks which do not attempt to distinguish between military targets and civilians or civilian objects (indiscriminate attacks);
prohibiting attacks which, although aimed at a legitimate military target, have a disproportionate impact on civilians or civilian objects;
prohibiting attacks using inherently indiscriminate weapons;
to treat humanely all prisoners, the wounded and those seeking to surrender (prisoners must never be killed or held as hostages) - and to respect the rules relating to prisoners of war;
to take all other necessary measures to protect the civilian population from the dangers arising from military operations, including not locating military objectives among civilian concentrations;
to punish all breaches of the laws of war and to ensure those responsible are brought to justice.

They should also make clear to any of their allied or proxy forces that they expect them to follow the same rules.

Back to Top ^^
3. Public order and safety

A broader task in Iraq is to secure order and ensure that occupying powers and any interim authority respect their obligations to all of the people of Iraq. As widespread looting and disorder continue in many areas, including Baghdad, Amnesty International is reminding the US and UK forces of their specific responsibilities as occupying powers under international human rights and humanitarian law. It is calling on them to take urgent measures to protect the rights of Iraqi people by enforcing law and order in areas under their control, specifically by preventing acts of pillage, destruction and violence.

The US and UK forces, as occupying powers, have a duty to protect the fundamental rights of the Iraqi population. They must restore and maintain public order and safety (Article 43, Hague Regulations, 1907). Any use of force that may be required should comply with international human rights and humanitarian law, including the UN Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials.

Combat troops do not usually have the training or the proper equipment for performing policing functions, and should not be expected to do so. However, occupying powers have a duty to plan for the breakdown of law and order in the areas where they establish military control. Much planning and resources seem to have been devoted to securing Iraqi oilfields. However, there is scarce evidence of similar levels of planning and allocation of resources for securing public and other institutions essential for the survival and well-being of the population. The response to disorder has been shockingly inadequate.

Amnesty International is calling on the USA and the UK to:

deploy forces in sufficient numbers and with the right training and equipment to restore law and order, until Iraqi police forces can operate effectively;
set up urgently an effective and fair vetting procedure for members of the Iraqi police forces, so as to reduce the chance of restoring to their duties officials who may have been involved in human rights violations;
ensure, in exercising or supervising policing functions, that the rights of freedom of expression and assembly are not arbitrarily restricted.

Related documents:
Iraq: Respecting international humanitarian law - background information - 25 March 2003
Iraq: Looting, lawlessness and humanitarian consequences - 11 April 2003
Iraq: Responsibilities of the occupying powers - 14 April 2003

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4. Humanitarian assistance

The health situation in Iraq is critical. Water shortages and power cuts threaten public health. Ransacked hospitals have acute shortages of drugs such as painkillers, antibiotics and anaesthetics, and are unable to deal with large numbers of casualties. Disorder and continued violence hampers the access of humanitarian relief agencies.

The US and UK forces are obliged as occupying powers to ensure food and medical supplies for the population, and to "bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate" (Article 55, Fourth Geneva Convention).

The Fourth Geneva Convention states that an occupying power has the duty "of ensuring and maintaining, with the cooperation of national and local authorities, the medical and hospital establishments and services, public health and hygiene in the occupied territories". Occupying powers are also required to facilitate and protect relief schemes, while in no way relieved of their own responsibilities (Articles 59, 60).

Amnesty International is calling on the USA and the UK to:

ensure the provision of food, water and medical supplies to people living in areas under their control;
maintain medical and hospital services, public health and hygiene.
make every effort to facilitate the work of international and other humanitarian organizations, including by assisting them in getting effective access to all those in need. In particular, the ICRC and the Iraqi Red Crescent Society must be able to pursue their activities in accordance with the principles of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement.

Related documents:
Iraq: Humanitarian needs of civilians must be met - 24 March 2003
Iraq: Looting, lawlessness and humanitarian consequences - 11 April 2003
Iraq: Responsibilities of the occupying powers - 14 April 2003

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5. Ensuring justice for human rights abuses

There should be no impunity for past and recent crimes under international law and other human rights abuses in Iraq. Credible allegations of unlawful killings of civilians during the recent conflict and its aftermath must be fully investigated and those found responsible individually held to account. AI has called for a comprehensive program to reform the Iraqi criminal justice system and to ensure that those responsible for such crimes are brought to justice. Ensuring justice is fundamental for the countless victims of decades of grave human rights violations and conflicts in Iraq, and as a means to prevent their repetition.

AI has called for a UN commission of experts to develop proposals, in close consultation with Iraqi civil society, for such a program. It should begin work immediately and could report in a matter of months. AI has outlined the role of such a commission of experts and set out fundamental principles which should govern reforms.

The use of US or UK military tribunals to bring to justice civilians or soldiers accused of crimes under international law would be undesirable, even if they could guarantee fair trial, since they risk being perceived as victors' justice. US military commissions, modelled on those established after the attacks in the USA of 11 September 2001, are administrative bodies, not courts, and their procedures are grossly unfair.

Related documents:
Iraq: Ensuring justice for human rights abuses - 14 April 2003
Iraq: US must investigate civilian deaths - 1 April 2003
Iraq: Soldiers' civilian disguise likely to rebound on civilians - 1 April 2003
Iraq: Investigate civilian deaths - 26 March 2003

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6. Use of indiscriminate weapons

AI repeatedly called on the parties to the conflict to ban the use of "weapons which are inherently indiscriminate or otherwise prohibited under international humanitarian law".

Both US and UK officials refused to rule out the use of cluster bombs. Cluster bombs were used by US and UK forces and may have been responsible for civilian deaths and injuries. Iraqi troops reportedly laid anti-personnel mines, and US authorities stated that the US "retains the right to use landmines".

Amnesty International:

opposes the use, manufacture, stockpiling and transfer of anti-personnel landmines;
calls for a moratorium on the use of cluster weapons;
calls for a moratorium on the use of depleted uranium (DU) weapons pending authoritative conclusions on their long-term effects on human health and the environment;
calls on all parties not to use nuclear weapons;
calls for full respect of the prohibitions in international law of chemical and biological weapons. Such weapons should not be used and any stockpiles should be destroyed.

Related documents:
Iraq: Condemnation of British use of cluster bombs - 03 April 2003
Iraq: Use of cluster bombs -- Civilians pay the price - 02 April 2003
Iraq: Risk to civilians if landmines and cluster bombs used - 27 March 2003

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7. Prisoners of war

AI calls on the US and UK authorities to treat all prisoners in conformity with the Third Geneva Convention. Prisoners should not be tortured or ill-treated, and should be given immediate access to the International Committee of the Red Cross.

AI calls on all media to ensure that its use of images respects the dignity of all prisoners of war, whether Iraqi, US or other nationals.

Related documents:
Iraq/USA: No double standards for POWs - 25 March 2003
Iraq: Responsibilities of the occupying powers - 14 April 2003

Back to Top ^^

8. Protection of refugees

Although there has so far been no major refugee influx into neighbouring countries, AI calls on the neighbouring states to keep their borders open to receive refugees and displaced persons. They should also facilitate the work of the UNHCR and the ICRC. The international community must support these countries and ensure burden sharing.

Related documents:
Iraq: Refugees and displaced persons - protection first - 24 March 2003

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9. Global backlash against human rights

Following the start of military action, a backlash against certain human rights was witnessed around the world. This included:

attacks on the rights to freedom of expression and assembly;
excessive use of force by police against anti-war demonstrators;
restriction of asylum rights.

AI calls on all governments to respect the right of people to express peacefully their opinions, and to refrain from using the war in Iraq as a pretext for curtailing or abusing fundamental human rights.

Related documents:
Iraq: In the shadow of war: backlash against human rights - 30 March 2003

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10. Human rights in Iraq before the conflict

Human rights violations have been committed on a massive scale against all sectors of society in Iraq. Most of the victims have been suspected political opponents of the government, their relatives, and members of religious and ethnic groups.

AI has issued numerous reports over the years, documenting "disappearances"; extrajudicial executions and other unlawful killings, including mass killings of civilians using chemical weapons; imprisonment of prisoners of conscience; long-term detention without charge or trial; grossly unfair trials; systematic torture including the use of judicial punishments such as flogging, ear amputation and branding of the forehead; forcible expulsions; extensive use of the death penalty.

These reports made detailed recommendations to the government of Iraq concerning changes that were required to end violations.

Related documents:
Iraq: Systematic torture of political prisoners - 15 August 2001
Iraq: Victims of Systematic Repression - 24 November 1999
Iraq:"Disappearances": Unresolved cases since the early 1980s - 01 October 1997

Back to Top ^^





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© Copyright Amnesty International
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 11:23 pm
Amnesty Int'l wrote:
deploy forces in sufficient numbers and with the right training and equipment to restore law and order, until Iraqi police forces can operate effectively;
set up urgently an effective and fair vetting procedure for members of the Iraqi police forces, so as to reduce the chance of restoring to their duties officials who may have been involved in human rights violations;
ensure, in exercising or supervising policing functions, that the rights of freedom of expression and assembly are not arbitrarily restricted.


What grand idealistic jargon------what the hell do you think we've been trying to do????????????? Or----are you one of those who think our troops wake up in the morning and say OK---let's go out and kill some women and kids for breakfast----torture some prisoners for lunch----and ----finish off the day by massacring an entire village? Get serious.

I agree that Kara is a fine well educated and thoughtful participant to the forum but you see this odd "polarization'" has just recently occured which unfortunately no longer allows meaningful discourse. Oh and BTW, your condescending attitude doesn't exactly warm my heart.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 11:36 pm
The more things change.
1/2 of the new security just quit. Guess they figure $60 a month isn't worth their lives.

Cluster bombs killed around 1,000 Iraqies. The cluter bombs did not need to be used.

I still predict that there will be a civil war in Iraq. The oucome will be an Islamic state, exactly what this Admin. does not want.

Dubya and the blundering, gang of thieves lied about the reasons to illegally attack a country that was no threat and were wrong about how the Iraqies could be dominated and subdued. It will be a FAILURE!!!!
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2003 11:59 pm
This is the early evening edition of the news.

The recent fight in the House of Representatives was over the open housing section of the Civil Rights Bill. Brought traditional enemies together but it left the defenders of the measure without the votes of their strongest supporters. President Johnson originally proposed an outright ban covering discrimination by everyone for every type of housing but it had no chance from the start and everyone in Congress knew it. A compromise was painfully worked out in the House Judiciary Committee.

In Los Angeles today comedian Lenny Bruce died of what was believed to be an overdose of narcotics. Bruce was 42 years old. Dr. Martin Luther King says he does not intend to cancel plans for an open housing march Sunday into the Chicago suburb of Cicero. Cook County Sheriff Richard Ogleby asked King to call off the march and the police in Cicero said they would ask the National Guard be called out if it is held King now in Atlanta, Georgia plans to return to Chicago Tuesday.

In Chicago Richard Speck, accused murderer of nine student nurses, was brought before a grand jury today for indictment. The nurses were found stabbed and strangled in their Chicago apartment.

In Washington the atmosphere was tense today as a special subcommittee of the House Committee on Un-American activities continued its probe into anti-Viet Nam war protests. Demonstrators were forcibly evicted from the hearings when they began chanting anti-war slogans.

Former Vice-President Richard Nixon says that unlesss there is a substantial increase in the present war effort in Viet Nam, the U.S. should look forward to five more years of war. In a speech before the Convention of the Veterans of Foreign Wars in New York, Nixon also said opposition to the war in this country is the greatest single weapon working against the U. S.

That's the 7 o'clock edition of the news, Goodnight.

Somehow seems appropriate ...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 05:31 am
Talking about the quality of intelligence ...

I found this a Shocked of a story. Must read, and fresh from the press.

I think this thing - though it might just sound as an organisational matter at first sight - might be playing an exorbitant part in the various things going wrong in Iraq now.

I know it's a lo-o-ong piece ... but since you have to register to get to see it online, I'll post it here in full anyway. TNR (test) subscribers can find it back at http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031222&s=odonnell122203 . The emphases in dark red are, of course, mine.

Quote:
THE TRANSLATOR CRISIS.
Speechless

by Anne O'Donnell

Post date 12.11.03 | Issue date 12.22.03

In July and September, when two American interpreters were separately detained on suspicion of espionage at Camp Delta, the U.S. facility in Guantanamo Bay where suspected Islamic militants are held, many observers expressed surprise that spies might have infiltrated the highly secure facility. After all, the personal histories of both interpreters, Ahmed F. Mehalba and Ahmad I. Al Halabi, contained red flags that should have prevented them from obtaining the required security clearance: Mehalba filed for bankruptcy in 1997, and Al Halabi was under investigation for making anti-American comments.

But the lapse isn't really that surprising. The simple fact is that the U.S. Army--like the CIA, the FBI, the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), and other government agencies--is desperate for speakers of Arabic, Farsi, Pashto, and other languages to assist in the war on terrorism. But qualified translators have been hard to come by--even as the need for them continues to grow. "The archival material [American forces] found in Afghanistan strained DIA and CIA to the limits," says Reuel Marc Gerecht, a former CIA operative stationed in the Middle East. And that documentary trove doesn't even compare to the reams of material found in Iraq. "The material that ought to be reviewed for intelligence purposes on weapons of mass destruction, terrorism, and de-Baathification is enormous," Gerecht says.

The good news is that, since September 11, 2001, the government has launched an effort to train and hire many more translators. The bad news is that the effort has been fitful, disorganized, and ineffective. In some cases, this has meant hiring translators who are unqualified or, in the case of the Camp Delta incidents, possible national security threats. (General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters that the Guantanamo Bay infiltrations "should not be a surprise.") But, more often than not, it has meant that translator jobs in military, law enforcement, and intelligence agencies have simply gone unfilled--with potentially disastrous consequences.

On the eve of the September 11 attacks, only a handful of FBI agents spoke Arabic, and millions of hours of Arabic-language intelligence tapes--some of which, it turned out, contained information that might have been used to anticipate the attacks--lay untranslated. According to a January 2002 General Accounting Office (GAO) report, such shortages were prevalent in the State Department and in the Army as well. During fiscal year 2001, 68 percent of the Army's positions for Farsi speakers and 50 percent of its positions for Arabic speakers were unfilled. Days after the attacks, FBI Director Robert Mueller publicly pleaded for "English-speaking individuals with professional-level proficiency in Arabic and Farsi" to come to the Bureau's aid; the National Security Agency (NSA) and the Department of Defense issued similarly desperate appeals. The Department of Education poured money into a newly created National Middle East Language Resource Center, a consortium of language experts from more than 20 major universities, to improve opportunities for learning the region's languages. And, last winter, when Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz visited Dearborn, Michigan, home to a large community of Iraqi-Americans, he announced that the émigrés could help liberate their homeland by joining an Army program in which they would serve as interpreters for U.S. units.

This campaign had some effect. The CIA, for example, reports that, in the last several years, it has tripled the number of Arabic-speaking staffers it employs--though the CIA won't divulge how many it had to begin with. Other agencies have not fared as well. Although the FBI and NSA were inundated with resumés of Arabic speakers following September 11, the vast majority of applicants were unqualified. The Army, too, has failed to attract Arabic speakers, resulting in a serious, sometimes embarrassing, strain on its Iraq operations. According to one American official in Iraq who speaks Arabic, "When one American official was giving a pep talk to his [new Iraqi] staff, basically saying, 'We expect you all to work hard for us, and, if you don't, you know that you'll be fired,' his words were translated as, 'We expect you to work hard for us, and, if you don't, you'll be lined up and shot.'" Many of the interpreters hired in Iraq, the official says, are from other Arab countries and speak dialects virtually impossible for Iraqis to understand.

Part of the problem is a lack of Arabic-proficient Americans: U.S. universities have traditionally given Arabic-language studies low priority. But responsibility also rests with government agencies that seem unwilling, or unable, to change their practices for hiring translators. The January 2002 GAO report that studied foreign-language shortfalls in State, the FBI, and the Army drew up a list of specific hiring recommendations to help each analyze their shortages and develop a strategy to address them. The FBI initially stepped up to the plate, unveiling a plan that called for hiring 193 language-capable agents. Yet, despite this plan, when Senator Russell Feingold's office evaluated the FBI's progress nearly a year later, it found the Bureau had not hired a single new Arabic-speaking agent under the plan. State and the Army, meanwhile, simply told the GAO that they weren't interested in its suggestions. The strategies they had were working so smoothly, it seems, that State today employs only 54 fully professional Arabic-speaking diplomats worldwide to operate in over 20 Arab nations.

The government has not only failed to hire new linguists; it may have difficulty retaining the ones it already has. In part, this is because many agencies continue to treat language capability as a secondary ability at best, and translators feel as though their skills are woefully underused. A group of linguists from Utah's National Guard and Reserves in Iraq recently complained to The Salt Lake Tribune that they spend their days as glorified gofers, chauffeuring intelligence collectors from one place to another. The Utah linguists--many of whom learned foreign languages on Mormon missions--are known for their prowess, but these men say their skills have atrophied in Iraq. That's probably because they speak Mandarin Chinese and Spanish, not Arabic. The men were apparently deployed as part of a reserve call-up without anyone noticing that they could be better employed studying Arabic. (Translation skills are, to an extent, transferable among languages, so linguists often learn several.) Although money has been allocated for the men to learn Arabic back in the United States, the military has extended their deployment orders, meaning they're still in Iraq "painting the rocks," as they call their inactivity on base. Guard officials fear many will opt not to re-up when their Iraq stint is over.

The government also has not offered translators the kind of financial incentives that might prevent them from leaving for the private sector. All government agencies provide "foreign-language proficiency pay" to employees who keep up their language skills, but, for active duty Army personnel, it only adds a maximum monthly bonus of $100 per language. Reservists get even less. A special operations reservist who is registered as an Arabic speaker--precisely the kind of person the Army wants to have available to be called up when needed--is paid only an additional $13.33 per month for his skills, because he technically only uses the language during his one weekend per month of active training.

Even without training new government employees or retaining the linguists already in the public sector, government agencies could plug their translator holes with native speakers. Yet State, the FBI, the NSA, and other agencies have been unable to hire enough native speakers to fill the void. This is not entirely their fault: Arab nationals have an extraordinarily difficult time passing the security clearance process. (More than 90 percent of the applicants who sent resumés to the FBI and NSA after September 11 were rejected because they could not obtain clearance.) "The very best people are great because they grew up in Syria or Lebanon," says one Arabic linguist at the Defense Department. "But you can't clear those people for obvious reasons." There are native Arab-American speakers, however, who have lived in the United States for decades and who would make ideal candidates. "There's no shortage of Arab immigrants with all the language skills one could hope for," many of whom "are about as red, white, and blue as they come," says Dr. Kirk Belnap, director of the National Middle Eastern Language Resource Center. But Justice Department campaigns to track and register Arab-Americans have made many mistrustful of working for Uncle Sam. "The good news is these [Arab-American] communities ... have the numbers and language skills our government needs," says retired Lieutenant Colonel Stephen Franke, a former Army Arabic linguist. "The bad news is they've become so traumatized" that many of them--especially community leaders--now want very little to do with government recruiters.

Even Arab-Americans who want to volunteer as linguists find there is no easy way to do so. News of the program announced by Wolfowitz last winter spread across the country at a snail's pace. When Franke contacted an Army recruiting office in California weeks after the program was announced on behalf of an Arab-American friend whose son wanted to enlist, the recruiters "didn't have a clue what I was talking about," he says.

With the number of Arabic, Pashto, and Farsi speakers still so low, the government has been forced to improvise. The Department of Defense, for one, has turned to contractors, asking the San Diego-based Titan Corporation to search for linguists. But contractors are at best a stopgap solution. According to several reports, when professionals are unavailable, contractors normally hire native speakers who have never worked as linguists, give them only two weeks or so of training, and throw them into live situations. For example, Titan's recruiting practices include cold-calling people in the phone book who have Afghan-sounding names and posting hiring messages in online chat rooms frequented by Arab-Americans.

Contractors also may not vet their hires closely enough, as the alleged Guantanamo infiltration shows. One of the suspected spies was supplied to the military by Titan; as a result, the company's contract is "under review." But, while Titan was responsible for the initial background check, the government was supposed to perform a more complete security investigation. In response to Senate questioning, Charles Abell, a principal deputy undersecretary of defense for personnel, testified, "We all recognized that we didn't have enough Arabic linguists already employed to meet our requirements. ... In our rush to meet the requirements, ... I think folks were brought on based on those initial checks."

Many government officials realize something more needs to be done. Responding to questions two months ago about the Guantanamo debacle, General Myers said that Arabic is "a language skill that has been in short supply, certainly. ... And we've got to do everything we can do to find people to help." Of course, they said the same thing back in September 2001.

Anne O'Donnell is a reporter-researcher at TNR.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 06:51 am
Well I've just spent an entertaining 1/2 hour catching up...with the exception of nimh's post...thanks for that nimh be back to it later. My highlights of last evening's posts...(when I was dreaming Kara goes to Hollywood)


ILZ wrote

Quote:
Funny thing is, despite all of the Bush administrations poor policy moves, I am convinced they actually think they are doing the right thing.


You're right they think they're right its scary all right


Kara said

Quote:
Steve, this kind of thought awakens me at midnight. Has this engine become a self-perpetuating agent of destruction? A force of any kind can feed on its own internal power. I have never had such fear for the future of this country.


I don't know if its better to be in America projecting American power out, or be outside America having American power projected in. So I don't know if it's me or you who has more sleepless nights but it should be Perception.

perc said to kara

Quote:
You and Steve needn't worry too much about the continuation of forceful global policy after Bush simply because it will be a long time before another president has the guts to call it like it is and to risk re-election in the process.


I don't understand this. Are you saying forceful global policy will stop after Bush and won't restart because any likely follow up president is a wimp?

Perc also said to Kara

Quote:
It would appear that you have swallowed every fruitcake allegation that the leftwing nuts have thrown out and have stopped thinking for yourself.


Amongst the gratuitous insults your assertion that Kara doesn't think for herself is clearly not true

Because you say a bit later

Quote:
I agree that Kara is a fine well educated and thoughtful participant to the forum.


Were you feeling a bit guilty? I hope it keeps you awake at night Laughing
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 07:11 am
Quote:
Atrocities should be used to describe Saddams actions---I believe Amnesty International would number his murders over one Million. If you count the deaths of all his wars then the total is more like 20 million.

If you put our actions in that category then you and I have no further need for discussion


If you are saying that we are bad and he was badder, I'm with you here.

Back to read Diane and nimh.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 07:21 am
Steve said:

Quote:
...(when I was dreaming Kara goes to Hollywood)


So you are just finding out that Jane Fonda and I are twin sisters????? Of course, everyone said I was the pretty one. Laughing
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 07:41 am
Nimh

Thanks for pasting that article----I have no doubt it is true. This is the sort management debacle that sends chills through me. This the sort of thing that makes one want to walk up to the civilian and military hierarchy, grab the bastards around the throat, shake the **** out of em and say---Look you stupid over educated sap---fix this thing and fix it now.

The same could be said about the State dept and the visa express debacle after 9/11 and any number of management errors that next the highest level emphasis to correct.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 07:57 am
From nimh's post about shortage of Arabic speakers

Quote:
'We expect you all to work hard for us, and, if you don't, you know that you'll be fired,' his words were translated as, 'We expect you to work hard for us, and, if you don't, you'll be lined up and shot.'"

...but these men say their skills have atrophied in Iraq. That's probably because they speak Mandarin Chinese and Spanish, not Arabic.
Smile

Meanwhile back in blighty things go a lot smoother. Geoff Hoon (Defence Minister) assured that us that British troops were the best and deserved the best equipment as they went off to fight Saddam's WMD. The kit might have been the best (stress might), but the fact that there was not enough to go round seemed to miss him by.

Hence emails home along the lines of

"Dear Mum, can you go down to the camping store and buy me some size 10 desert boots (sand coloured). And a puncture repair kit for my NBC warfare suit. Also my gun has got sand in it again and won't work. Ask Dad if he can find that Kalashnikov he brought back from Berlin in 1945. We are going in soon, officer says to expect anything Sarin VX etc so its no pic nic"

From the Daily Telegraph

Quote:
Men were let down, says Iraq war widow
By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 27/11/2003)

The MoD is to to launch an inquiry into the death of a British tank commander who was not wearing body armour when he was killed in Iraq because of equipment shortages.


So Mr Hoon, you lied about WMD. You lied about equipment shortages. You lied about releasing weapons expert David Kelly's name to the press. You lied about the radios. You lied about the active identify friend or foe system. You said before during and after the war that you had "no doubt at all" that WMD would be found. You sent men into battle "knowing" battlefield chemical weapons might be used against them but shortage of NBC kit wasn't a problem. After all the finest troops in the world don't actually have amongst their ranks your son or daughter do they Mr Hoon?

And now you tell us we must learn from mistakes and a new computer system is to be introduced that will make sure the imaginary shortages that never happened anyway will never happen again.

Mr Hoon is a lawyer by profession.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 09:53 am
What is the difference between an occupation and an incursion?

Quote:
Baghdad Burning

... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend...
Friday, December 12, 2003

Meanwhile...
We heard the latest statement from Washington about Germany, France, Russia and Canada not being allowed to have anything to do with the reconstruction. Iraq no longer feels like a country- it feels like war spoils: the winning team gets the pickings. So how is the world supposed to be involved in the reconstruction of Iraq when they are being deliberately excluded?

It's a decision like this one that brings to light the complete uselessness of the Governing Council. Why is Washington calling the shots on the reconstruction issues? This means that even after a military occupation, we'll be under an economic occupation for years to come. Why aren't any of the new ministers or GC members saying anything about this? Somehow, I have a feeling that if they have anything to say, it'll be in accordance with this latest decision.

There was a demonstration in Baghdad yesterday of about 4,000 people. The parties who are a part of the GC took part in an 'anti-terror' protest. The roads were closed for security reasons and helicopters were hovering over head. There were a couple of women's groups… I recognized some women from Al-Da'awa Al-Islamiya- Al-Jaffari's party. The Iraqi communist party and SCIRI were also involved. The irony is seeing SCIRI members hold up the "NO TERROR" banners (they could start by not terrorizing the Al-Iraqiya station because the anchorwomen don't wear hijabs…).

There were other demonstrations in some provinces, and they've all been lobbed together with the one in Baghdad. The truth is that some of them were actually anti-occupation demonstrations, like the one in Khaldiya. There were large crowds demonstrating in Khaldiya, demanding the release of boys and men who have been detained for over 3 months in American prison camps.

Today (well, technically, yesterday) there was another large demonstration in Baghdad which was a peaceful anti-occupation demonstration. The demonstrators were mainly university students and teachers who were opposing the raids occurring in some colleges and universities. They were demanding the release of three women who were detained when the Technology University in Baghdad was raided. Their spokesperson, a professor, I think, said that this was going to be the first demonstration in a long series of anti-occupation activism being organized by teachers and students.


There were some loud explosions a while ago... I just read it might have been inside of the 'Green Zone'.

- posted by river @ 2:22 AM
SOURCE
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 10:17 am
Steve wrote:
I don't understand this. Are you saying forceful global policy will stop after Bush and won't restart because any likely follow up president is a wimp?


Not exactly a wimp but as soon as Bush leaves it will be back to-----Gee, we want everybody to love us so we mustn't step on their toes------Not realizing that it doesn't matter what the hell we do----we can't please all the people all the time.

Every President until Bush has let the appeasement Culture at the State Dept dominate our foreign policy and what did it achieve? The North Koreans tore up the agreement from Clinton and threw it in our face all the while continuing with their Nuclear program.

The French, Germans and Russians were secretly doing business with Saddam-----the Chinese were busy stealing our technology(what Clinton didn't give them outright) and the rest of the world calling us suckers because of the naive deals we made with despots.

It was this policy that made bin Laden bold enought to declare war on us-----I posted his declaration a few pages back in case any of you missed it----more likely it was ignored. Can anyone imagine that a bearded wonder who wants the world to live in 7th century would actually have the guts to declare war on us. That is the legacy of our past wimp presidents.

Bin Laden took a look at the most laughable institution in the world----the UN---and rightly said---hey we can operate in any country in the world with impunity because of -------the stupid concept of sovereignty.
I can pay any of a number of thugs who run countries to allow my organization to train and work here and the US and UN can't touch me.

That is----until Bush II came along-----now his ass is bouncing over the hills on a donkey----- doesn't dare sleep in the same place twice and is constantly looking over his shoulder-----saying "who are those guys"?

Of course he can still dictate a tape from his donkey and then depend on his own private propaganda machine to beam it to the world-----Aljazeera. Gels favorite unbiased source for the latest propaganda---er excuse me "news".

The most powerful force in the world is an idea-----trouble is the "Idea" is death and destruction for the 'West and you gullible people are "lapping" it up.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 10:26 am
Holy crap .... a talking *** ****
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 10:33 am
Quote:
Shia demand UN decides on elections

Friday 12 December 2003, 17:59 Makka Time, 14:59 GMT

Iraqi Shia are critical of the US-led occupation of Iraq

Grand Ayat Allah Ali al-Sistani, Iraq's highest-ranking Shia cleric, wants the United Nations to rule if early elections can take place in the country, in a new embarrassment to the US occupation authorities.

Washington, which has decreed a lengthy delay before proper elections are held in 2005, can ill-afford to snub the religious leader of Iraq's majority community.

"Ayat Allah Sistani maintains his call for elections in Iraq unless a neutral UN committee, appointed by Secretary General Kofi Annan, visits Iraq and reaches the conclusion that in the current circumstances it is technically and politically impossible to hold general elections," said interim Governing Council member Muwaffak al-Rubaie.

Agreement

The Governing Council signed a 15 November agreement with the US-led occupation coalition to transfer sovereignty to a transitional national assembly by 31 May next year.

General elections would not take place until March 2005, a date Sistani has rejected as far too late.

The deal gave no role at all to the United Nations, but
stipulates that the transitional assembly will be made up of
notables elected by a 15-member committee.

Five of the committee would be appointed by the Governing Council, the rest by provincial assemblies.

Compromise

Sistani, who has repeatedly called for general elections to the
first assembly in the new Iraq, rejected a compromise offered by the Governing Council.

Kofi Annan says it is dangerous
to resume Iraq operations
"We did not reach an agreement on this question and discussions are continuing between the Governing Council and the Marjaiya" (Shia leadership), Rubaie told reporters.

He met Sistani for three hours along with Ahmed Chalabi, another Governing Council member who is also a Shia, but Sistani threw out their proposal for a referendum, Rubaie added.

"We put forward a compromise proposal: the appointment of a
committee of 100-150 people from all political currents in Iraq, including those not represented on the council."

The names would then be put to a national referendum which
Rubaie said would be "easier to organise than general elections" that require constituencies to be drawn up, a list of candidates and an electoral campaign.

Debate

The interim council's 25 members are clearly divided over the
election issue.

The debate pits those whose prime objective is the return of sovereignty and an end to occupation against those who stress that the Iraqi people must first be consulted to give legitimacy to any new leaders.

Annan ruled out in a report this week any quick return to Iraq
for the United Nations, saying it remained too dangerous to put his staff at risk.

But he nevertheless said emergency and humanitarian work could be stepped up despite the grim outlook for security.


SOURCE
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2003 01:34 pm
Nice one Perc

I don't agree with a word you say, but as ? said was it Rousseau? I defend your right to make me laugh.

ok that was a little harsh, but you have been a little harsh yourself at times.

Quote:
I posted his declaration a few pages back in case any of you missed it


would like to see that but cant find please post again thanks

Quote:
That is----until Bush II came along-----now his ass is bouncing over the hills on a donkey


This conjures up a variety of permutations.

Quote:
Of course he can still dictate a tape from his donkey


Probably the donkey was right. The thing is about donkeys is that they don't say much but God when they do its really like mind blowing stuff. And its not all sticks and carrots either. Sorry had a beer Cool
0 Replies
 
 

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