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THE US, UN AND IRAQ V

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 10:33 am
From an American soldier, quoted in today's Daily Mirror

[quote]THE EMAIL

THE reports of 54 enemy killed will sound great on the home front, but the greater story needs to be told to the American public.

Most of the casualties were civilians, not insurgents or criminals ...

During the ambushes the tanks, Brads and armored Humvees hosed down houses, buildings, and cars while using reflexive fire against the attackers. This was a rolling firefight through the town.

Rules of engagement are that US soldiers are to consider buildings, homes, cars to be hostile if fire is received from them (regardless of who else is inside).

The logic is to respond using superior firepower. This is then extended down to the average Iraqi, with the hope that the Iraqis will not support the guerrillas and will turn them in to coalition forces, knowing we will blow the hell out of their homes or towns if they don't.

If the insurgents goad us into levelling buildings and homes, the people inside then hate us (if they did not before) and we have created more guerrilla recruits.

We drive around in convoys, blast the hell out of the area, break down doors and search buildings. But the guerrillas continue to attack us. It does not take a George Patton to see we are using the wrong tactics.[/quote]
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 10:53 am
Hbob -------------->klik here
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 11:26 am
Quote:
http://www.news.com.au/images/logo_news2001.gif

Top Saddam general shot dead

From correspondents in Baghdad
December 6, 2003

GUNMEN shot dead today a former secret police general who had been in charge of western Baghdad under ousted strongman Saddam Hussein, a witness told said.

General Khalaf Alussi died at his home under a hail of bullets fired by four men, said Wissam Idan, a 24-year-old building worker at the house in the capital's al-Yarmuk area.

The general, who died on the spot, headed the feared secret police in the al-Kharkh district on the west bank of the Tigris river.

At the hospital where the body was taken, his brother, Raed Abdulkarim, confirmed the killing, adding that the gunmen had fled.

"He died immediately," Adulkarim said.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 11:33 am
Steve, This administration continues to make mistake after mistake. We are now creating new America-haters, and helping the terrorist with their recruitment campaign. This hate will continue for generations while we continue to exacerbate the problems in Iraq. We have used the claim that we went to Iraq to eliminate the terrorism of Saddam, and have become the terrorists. It's a lose-lose deal for all sides. I wonder when these "smart" folks in Washington will begin to see the "real" damage of what they have wrought?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 11:34 am
I don't believe American forces are doing a good job

Quote:
We drive around in convoys, blast the hell out of the area, break down doors and search buildings. But the guerrillas continue to attack us. It does not take a George Patton to see we are using the wrong tactics.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 11:39 am
ci

I think they are well aware of the damage that they have to do, and the damage they have to sustain, in pursuit of wider policy objectives.

We are still at the very beginning of something which will take many decades.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 11:45 am
Can the truth be counted as collateral damage?
"We don't do body counts" General Tommy Franks, US Central Command.

And they killed 54 at Samarra ....
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 11:50 am
"We don’t do body counts”

...well thats true. They just make up any old number that suits the occasion.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 11:53 am
Steve wrote:
As I've said before, until recently I was very perplexed and confused and damn right annoyed with this World War because I didn't understand it, what prompted it nor could I guess what would happen next.

Well just recently I believe I do have at least a basic understanding of what's going on. I don't approve nor disapprove, but I feel a bit more relaxed about it.


Damn Steve, It is gratifying to note a distinct shift in your stance-----but then you disappoint with this:

"From an American soldier, quoted in today's Daily Mirror"

How can you possibly believe ANYTHING printed in the Daily Mirror? Jeeezz man get serious.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 12:02 pm
It is simply a self-defeating argument to denigrate the medium instead of the message.

And for the coup de grace to your rebuttal, fling an ad hominem...
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 12:11 pm
PDiddie wrote:
It is simply a self-defeating argument to denigrate the medium instead of the message.

And for the coup de grace to your rebuttal, fling an ad hominem...


I would guess you are referring to tactics used by yourself, Tartarin, and Hobitbob.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 01:00 pm
Thanks Steve, nobody ever 'splained' it to me that way before.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 03:28 pm
What were the reasons fabricated by Bin Laden, perception?
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 06:47 pm
The stated grievances of the bin Laden network
The stated grievances of the bin Laden network fit a pattern familiar to students of Islamic activism over the past two centuries. In a fatwa released in February 1998 (and echoed last week by the Taliban), bin Laden and leaders of extremist groups in Egypt, Pakistan and Bangladesh specified that their war was a defensive struggle against Americans and their allies who had declared war "on God, his messenger, and Muslims." The "crimes and sins" perpetrated by the United States were threefold. First, it had "stormed" the Arabian peninsula during the Gulf War and continued "occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places" (i.e., Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia); second, it continued a war of annihilation against Iraq; and third, it supported the state of Israel and its continued occupation of Jerusalem.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/comm/oped/hashmi.shtml

Al Qaeda's main goals:
Remove Western influence from Islamic lands. In practice, this means eliminating American military, cultural, and political influence from predominantly Islamic countries in the Middle East and Central Asia.

Destroy governments in Islamic lands that are supported by and linked to the democracies of the U.S. and Western Europe and that have made peace with and recognize the legitimacy of the state of Israel.
Establish orthodox Islamic regimes throughout regions where Muslims are the majority of the population and put into practice the strict tenets of Shari'a law.


http://college.hmco.com/currentconflict/instructors/history/alqaeda.html
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 07:06 pm
So, the terrorism perpetrated against the US was a backlash against American and Western interference and influence in Islamic lands, of which Israel is a part. The reasons weren't for subjugation and conversion of a recalcitrant world.

How, exactly, are those reasons fabricated, perception?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 07:07 pm
Thanks for the links, pistoff.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 08:12 pm
Another "Bodyguard Story"?

Quote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/images/new_hed_story.gif

Revealed: the Iraqi colonel who told MI6 that Saddam could launch WMD within 45 minutes[/i]

By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 07/12/2003)


An Iraqi colonel who commanded a front-line unit during the build-up to the war in Iraq has revealed how he passed top secret information to British intelligence warning that Saddam Hussein had deployed weapons of mass destruction that could be used on the battlefield against coalition troops in less than 45 minutes.

Lt-Col al-Dabbagh, 40, who was the head of an Iraqi air defence unit in the western desert, said that cases containing WMD warheads were delivered to front-line units, including his own, towards the end of last year.

He said they were to be used by Saddam's Fedayeen paramilitaries and units of the Special Republican Guard when the war with coalition troops reached "a critical stage" ...

... Col al-Dabbagh, who was recalled to Baghdad to work at Iraq's air defence headquarters during the war itself, believes that the WMD have been hidden at secret locations by the Fedayeen and are still in Iraq. "Only when Saddam is caught will people talk about these weapons," he said ...

... Col al-Dabbagh, who received two death threats from Saddam loyalists days after his interview with the Telegraph, said that he was willing to travel to London to give evidence to the Hutton inquiry. "I was there and I knew what Saddam was doing before the war," he said.

An official close to the Hutton inquiry said: "What Mr Dabbagh has to say sounds very interesting and it is certainly new evidence that we will want to look at."[/b]


It will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of this. Its gotten very little play in the hours since it first appeared on The Telegraph's website about an hour ago.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 08:15 pm
To base a preemptive attack on one person's claim is stupid and dangerous. But, what the hay, it's been done.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 08:33 pm
A Followup Telegraph Article, just posted, offers more details. The cast of characters appears to expand. Several English Language papers are running the original story on their websites, or refering to it, but no broad wireservice pickup yet. I haven't noticed any broadcast mention, though I'm now watching CNN, FOX, MSNBC, and ABC's live newsfeed. It should get at least a scroll or two in the next hour or so if there's anything really there. I expect there will be some sort of "Official Reaction" shortly, whether dismissive or corroborative. I doubt the story will go away quietly.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 08:38 pm
The bad sex writing award winner...
Quote:
Bunker 13 by Aniruddha Bahal (Faber & Faber)

She's taking off her blouse. It's on the floor. Her breasts are placards for the endomorphically endowed. In spite of yourself a soft whistle of air escapes you. She's taking off her trousers now. They are a heap on the floor. Her panties are white and translucent. You can see the dark hair sticking to them inside. There's a design as well. You gasp.

'What's that?' you ask. You see a designer pussy. Hair razored and ordered in the shape of a swastika. The Aryan denominator...

As your hands roam her back, her breasts, and trace the swastika on her mound you start feeling like an ancient Aryan warlord yourself...

She sandwiches your nozzle between her tits, massaging it with a slow rhythm. A trailer to bookmark the events ahead. For now she has taken you in her lovely mouth. Your palms are holding her neck and thumbs are at her ears regulating the speed of her head as she swallows and then sucks up your machinery.

She is topping up your engine oil for the cross-country coming up. Your RPM is hitting a new high. To wait any longer would be to lose prime time...

She picks up a Bugatti's momentum. You want her more at a Volkswagen's steady trot. Squeeze the maximum mileage out of your gallon of gas. But she's eating up the road with all cylinders blazing. You lift her out. You want to try different kinds of fusion.
http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,6109,1099719,00.html
0 Replies
 
 

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