1
   

Latinos divided on immigration issue

 
 
tumbleweed cv
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 05:26 pm
@Lasombra,
Lasombra wrote:


Put more Border patrol agents on the border.
Put up a fence or other physical barrier (like the one in Israel).
Increase the technological advantage of the Border Patrol Agents (UAVs, new forms of passports and National ID cards)
Crackdown on people abusing the visa system.



Who is in charge of providing the services you just mentioned? The DHS that Bush formed. That's the real problem. We have a president in office that doesn't give a damn about our national security.

This is a problem the Feds are supposed to be on top of. Bush hasn't done anything about this problem since being elected. Everyone knows what needs to be done. There is nobody in charge that can do the job.:wtf:

Edit- corrected quote tag.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 05:37 pm
@Curmudgeon,
I think he is a little less worried about chicano's then muslims. Some would say Afgan and Iraq were national security issues.
This problem wouldn't be a problem if prior administrations had taken an interest you suggest bush should of. Seems like pass the buck is the order of the day.
Brent cv
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 06:47 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline wrote:
I think he is a little less worried about chicano's then muslims. Some would say Afgan and Iraq were national security issues.
This problem wouldn't be a problem if prior administrations had taken an interest you suggest bush should of. Seems like pass the buck is the order of the day.


OMG NOT AGAIN! Just because the "prior" administration did not do it DOES NOT MEAN that it is ok for the CURRENT ADMINISTRATION to let it go too. :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 06:54 pm
@Curmudgeon,
So what will you say when bush does nothing. Then it is up to suceeds him? And bush gets off scot free? Sorry you don't like it but that's the way it is. If you don't like bringing up the past then don't do it. I on the other hand have no problem with it. First is was bringing up Clinton, now it's bringing up " Prior" Admins, what will it be next? Are we free to speak are minds or are you setting precedent? I will not conform to your view on debating your only solution is to edit or ban me.
Lasombra
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:09 pm
@Brent cv,
Brent wrote:
What is innocent about them?!?!?!?!?! They are not US citizens and are breaking United States law. How the hell are they innocent :dunno: :wtf:


You have to understand that the rules are differnet when you use the military. Innocent is no longer a civil state in terms of military action. Innocent is defined as someone who isn't engaging a military unit.

Legally are they innocent, of course not. In the eyes of the military though, unless they start shooting first (depending on the RoE, they're innocents).

Quote:
How about we save their life, get them healthy, and since we now have an illegal alien in custody we deport them. Not rocket science.


Wouldn't it be cheaper to just deport them, instead of shooting them, praying that they don't die on us, have them recover at the expense of you the taxpayer and then deporting them?

You must be a liberal.


Quote:
Since when were illegal immigrants crossing our borders illegally innocent?


When you use police, illegal immigrants are never considered innocent. When you use the military, it reverts back to how I described above.


Quote:
How can you come to the conclusion this is the best way? Why pay to put more people on this borders when we have military on the payroll as it is now that can do this equally as good?


The military is not chartered to be policemen. Guess you've never heard of posse comitatus, huh. It makes what you want to do illegal. Maybe instead of pounding away on a computer keyboard, you read a book (maybe American Govenment for Dummies?) first.

Quote:
*** national id cards. That is the most retarded thing ever. Talk about way to much government in my life right there.


I guess you don't have a passport, huh?


Quote:

If you think someone crossing into our country illegally is innocent you got serious issues. :beat: Maybe you need your head out of your ass so you can think clearer as well? :dunno:


From a police matter, I've never said that. When you use the military, it's a whole different matter.

Again, American Govenment for Dummies. I think Amazon has it.
Lasombra
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:14 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline wrote:
The military is used in times of disaster too, they must come to kill and destroy some more? How many people did the military kill and destroy when the Sunami hit a couple years ago, i think they saved thousands if not hundreds of thousands. How many did they kill and destroy in Pakistan after there earthquake? Talk about fodder for the other side, you do a fair job of it also.


Of course the military is used for humanitarian missisons, Are you saying that the military will be doing the same role they did during Operation Unified Assistance on the Mexican border?
Lasombra
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:15 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline wrote:
Send the kids with there parents. When they are of age they can then decide if they want to come back.


When they are of age, and have spouses and children, will you grant the rest of the family citizenship?
Lasombra
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:18 pm
@tumbleweed cv,
tumbleweed wrote:
Who is in charge of providing the services you just mentioned? The DHS that Bush formed. That's the real problem. We have a president in office that doesn't give a damn about our national security.


How long has the Border Patrol been active?

Quote:
This is a problem the Feds are supposed to be on top of. Bush hasn't done anything about this problem since being elected. Everyone knows what needs to be done. There is nobody in charge that can do the job.:wtf:

Edit- corrected quote tag.


Funny... I wasn't aware that the Executive Branch had that power. Last time I checked, that was a Legislature "thing"
0 Replies
 
ndjs
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:32 pm
@Lasombra,
Lasombra wrote:
The fact that both of you think this is a good idea is not only scary, but gives liberals fodder to stereotype Conservatives as reactionary, mouth breathing troglodytes that can't perceive the consequences of their actions beyond the point of their nose.

Damn, wanna talk about stereotypes. Who said I was a conservative? I just happen to love our country and don't want people who don't belong here to be here.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:34 pm
@Curmudgeon,
Quote:
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just deport them, instead of shooting them, praying that they don't die on us, have them recover at the expense of you the taxpayer and then deporting them?

Cheapest would be to not let them over the border in the first place.
Quote:
American Govenment for Dummies

It's CliffsQuickReview American Government By Paul Soifer, Abraham Hoffman, D. Stephen Voss
. Not American Government for Dummies.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:35 pm
@Lasombra,
Lasombra wrote:
Of course the military is used for humanitarian missisons, Are you saying that the military will be doing the same role they did during Operation Unified Assistance on the Mexican border?
They will do what they are ordered to do.
Lasombra
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:35 pm
@ndjs,
ndjs wrote:
Damn, wanna talk about stereotypes. Who said I was a conservative? I just happen to love our country and don't want people who don't belong here to be here.


Drnaline is a conservative if I'm correct. He should know better. You're a liberal, and that's your excuse. Razz
Lasombra
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:36 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline wrote:
They will do what they are ordered to do.



So... follow your archair general idea... what mission do you put them on?

Mind the Posse Comitatus
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:37 pm
@Lasombra,
Lasombra wrote:
When they are of age, and have spouses and children, will you grant the rest of the family citizenship?
If they go through the proper channels if they are foreign like the parents.
Lasombra
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:39 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline wrote:
Cheapest would be to not let them over the border in the first place.


Agreed. Hence my desire to see a fence a la Israel.

I just think shooting them, then giving them medical attention at the cost of our taxpayers, and then deporting them is just a waste of money.

Quote:
It's CliffsQuickReview American Government By Paul Soifer, Abraham Hoffman, D. Stephen Voss
. Not American Government for Dummies.


Heh:D
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:43 pm
@Lasombra,
Lasombra wrote:
Drnaline is a conservative if I'm correct. He should know better. You're a liberal, and that's your excuse. Razz
Drnaline is also a chicano. I'd like to know what i'm supposed to know better? My family came to this country in 1678, to teach the locals how to weave. I have over twenty generations in Santa Fe.
Lasombra
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:44 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline wrote:
If they go through the proper channels if they are foreign like the parents.


That's just it. We're talking about children born in the US, and then deported to a foreign country until they are of age (which is unconstitutional). But lets say that somehow it's possible.

These US citizens who grow up to be adults now can enter the US legally just by walking in. They are also allowed to bring their spouses and any children they have with them.

There is no "proper channel".
ndjs
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:46 pm
@Lasombra,
Lasombra wrote:
Drnaline is a conservative if I'm correct. He should know better. You're a liberal, and that's your excuse. Razz

Not a quick learner. :p

Who said I was a liberal?
0 Replies
 
Lasombra
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:46 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline wrote:
Drnaline is also a chicano. I'd like to know what i'm supposed to know better?


Your Constitution for one.

Liberals make the Constitution up as it suits them. We should atleast know what it says.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Apr, 2006 07:48 pm
@Lasombra,
Lasombra wrote:
So... follow your archair general idea... what mission do you put them on?

Mind the Posse Comitatus

Simple, Tell then if they see any one coming over the border. Stop them from crossing.
Quote:
SEC. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.

And all we need is an OK from congress.
 

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