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Probe of Ft. Hood murders

 
 
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2009 09:37 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;104286 wrote:
Since most soldiers are not violent or murderers I expect that any particular individual soldier will not me violent or a murderer.


Very few people are not violent. Military or otherwise.

Further, every member of the United States Armed Force, regardless of branch, endures a period called 'basic training', a time in which psychological abuse is used in order to instill a sense of unquestioning obedience to superior officials, including the unquestioned use of violence. Not only including violence, but violent practices are a focus of this training.

Thus, every member is taught and trained to be violent.

kennethamy;104286 wrote:
Except, of course, for all the other facts that Hitchens lists, which would raise the probability that Hasan (not some other soldier) would do what Hasan actually did. There were warnings all over the place.


What were the red flags for William Casey and the other 26 soldiers involved in the My Lai massacre?

None of them exhibited the "warning signs" Hitchens attributes to Hasan, yet they managed to commit an atrocity far more barbaric than Hasan, at least in scope.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2009 10:19 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;104308 wrote:
Very few people are not violent. Military or otherwise.

Further, every member of the United States Armed Force, regardless of branch, endures a period called 'basic training', a time in which psychological abuse is used in order to instill a sense of unquestioning obedience to superior officials, including the unquestioned use of violence. Not only including violence, but violent practices are a focus of this training.

Thus, every member is taught and trained to be violent.



What were the red flags for William Casey and the other 26 soldiers involved in the My Lai massacre?

None of them exhibited the "warning signs" Hitchens attributes to Hasan, yet they managed to commit an atrocity far more barbaric than Hasan, at least in scope.


Soldiers are trained how to be violent. But not to be violent. There is a difference. It was William Calley, not Casey. And, I don't know the answer. What has that to do with it? Are you arguing that because there were no red flags, or we knew of no red flags at My Lai, that there were none in the case of Hasan? Or, what are you arguing?
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2009 10:51 am
@kennethamy,
Calley (as you so rightly correct, albeit without any substantial difference) defended himself by claiming that he only followed orders. And that's the point. It's more than how to be violent, it is being violent on command regardless of individual thought. And that is exactly what Calley did. It was US Vietnam policy. I'll happily provide reference if you are in disbelief.

Hate to tell ya, I have no grand thesis to submit. Only anecdotes and situations to consider which might undermine your own thought process. But that's what this forum is here for - to introduce ideas that challenge us in our comfortable, preconceived notions.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2009 02:56 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;104283 wrote:
Besides, purchasing extra-military weapons is pretty common among soldiers.

Look folks, it's the military: it teaches and trains people to be violent. What else do you expect?

If the form is working, violence is directed out of the form, and unity is sought within the form...We take unity for granted and do not realize that it cannot be counted on, and must be cultivated, and nurtured...

---------- Post added 11-18-2009 at 04:11 PM ----------

kennethamy;104322 wrote:
Soldiers are trained how to be violent. But not to be violent. There is a difference. It was William Calley, not Casey. And, I don't know the answer. What has that to do with it? Are you arguing that because there were no red flags, or we knew of no red flags at My Lai, that there were none in the case of Hasan? Or, what are you arguing?

Correct; because people cannot be trained to be violent... All human beings have the capacity for violence... What is needed is the sanction, the condition, and the encouragement to violence...We do not need some one to order us to kill, but we like to evade the responsibility, which orders help with...Sure; the problem is with governments and so called leaders who are no better than mass murderes, but the problem is also with us, that we too willingly accept violence as a cure for ills when it is more often the ill in search of a cure... And I say this as a violent man... Only the Grace of God or good fortune, faith or fate has kept me from murder... And may it always be so... Death always wins...All humanity can do is play the good game...
0 Replies
 
 

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