2
   

Wonder why they don't hate America.

 
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2009 06:39 pm
@prothero,
prothero;102387 wrote:
If the thread is about "why they do not hate America". Then it is pretty clear "they" being people in other countries "do not hate America" and that many given the opportunity would like to "live in, move to or make their country like America".
Whether "they" desire this because of Americas material wealth or because of our founding ideals, system of government, laws and economic and social opportunity is debatable. I think the latter but proof is absent.

If the debate is about what is the "best" country or the extent to which America still meets its founding ideals things are a little less clear. There is no "best" country for everyone. Clearly given the opportunity many would immigrate to America or other western democratic countries. All countries could do better in providing opportunity for all and protecting human rights but America is far from the worst and often has been a leader in both areas.


There may be no best country for everyone, but that does not mean there is no best country.
salima
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Nov, 2009 07:40 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;102397 wrote:
There may be no best country for everyone, but that does not mean there is no best country.


but every country must be best for someone...and one person's reason for believing it to be so may not match anyone else's. whose opinion is right? it makes no sense to even try and determine the 'best' country unless it is the best for a particular person.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Nov, 2009 09:29 am
@prothero,
prothero;102387 wrote:
If the thread is about "why they do not hate America". Then it is pretty clear "they" being people in other countries "do not hate America" and that many given the opportunity would like to "live in, move to or make their country like America".
Whether "they" desire this because of Americas material wealth or because of our founding ideals, system of government, laws and economic and social opportunity is debatable. I think the latter but proof is absent.

If the debate is about what is the "best" country or the extent to which America still meets its founding ideals things are a little less clear. There is no "best" country for everyone. Clearly given the opportunity many would immigrate to America or other western democratic countries. All countries could do better in providing opportunity for all and protecting human rights but America is far from the worst and often has been a leader in both areas.

Those who love us are as wrong as those who hate us... We are what we are because of freedom denied, and it makes us miserable and brutal...If we could get free of our spoilers and exploiters, we, and this place could be wonderful...
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Nov, 2009 05:12 pm
@salima,
salima;102444 wrote:
but every country must be best for someone...and one person's reason for believing it to be so may not match anyone else's. whose opinion is right? it makes no sense to even try and determine the 'best' country unless it is the best for a particular person.


But "best for X" just means that X thinks it is best. And different people may think that different countries are best, but they may all be wrong. Just because some person thinks a particular country is best doesn't mean it is best. He may be wrong.
salima
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Nov, 2009 11:29 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;102499 wrote:
But "best for X" just means that X thinks it is best. And different people may think that different countries are best, but they may all be wrong. Just because some person thinks a particular country is best doesn't mean it is best. He may be wrong.


you mean like me thinking india is best for me and someone else could say i am wrong because of the chances i might die of malaria? suppose i say i live all my life here happy and everybody has to die sooner or later, what do i care if it is by a cobra bite or a bad lunch-it's better than ending up as roadkill on a usa highway. i mean in my opinion, if i have to choose how to die this would be more natural, so i think better-for me. both living here and dying here. how can there be a right and wrong to issues like those that are purely a matter of opinion?

of course the joke will probably be on me, i will end up electrocuting myself one day on my stove in the kitchen because i dont like cng. once again my mistake, because i should have used the natural way and burnt cowpies for fuel.

your logic is wonderful, kenneth-but sometimes logic just doesnt apply. not entirely anyway...

for instance, i know my son thinks brazil or the netherlands is the perfect place for him, and he is probably right. the real reason to choose a country is for the people-here i am among people who understand me beyond the level of language, or should i say accept me as i am, and i understand them, and to me that is the most wonderful thing-being a foreigner sucks, i should know because i was one in america all my life.

this reminds me of the conversation i had with my neighbor back about 30 years ago. he was living in america, had come over from italy almost twenty years earlier, but never became a us citizen. he loved his country and always wanted to go back. we used to marvel at how when he was young he was on the opposite side of usa in world war ii but now he was sitting in our kitchen talking to us as neighbors. so i asked him 'why do you live here then, why dont you go back?' and he said 'because i dont want my daughter to have to live like i do, as a foreigner. she was born in america, she is ten years old now, and if i take her back to italy it wont be home for her, it never will be.' so he planned to go back after she got married-while he was over there on a visit after her wedding, he died.

sorry about the rambling....but it isnt a black and white issue and some things you just cant take a poll on and get much usable data.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Nov, 2009 07:33 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;102499 wrote:
But "best for X" just means that X thinks it is best. And different people may think that different countries are best, but they may all be wrong. Just because some person thinks a particular country is best doesn't mean it is best. He may be wrong.

I imagine Ireland looking at those leaving for America and saying: Poor folks; but looking at that place from America, they seem poor...And we have our Irish who would be poor sitting on a pile of gold...They might as well have bumper stickers saying: I'm Irish so I must be drunk... Which I hope is not taken as too cruel a judgement on my people; as there are a lot of good people who engage in self destructive and self defeating behavior...Whiskey is part of a larger Galic word meaning the water of life...Some water...
0 Replies
 
 

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