61
   

The Confederacy was About Slavery

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2015 06:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
claim that the war was all about slavery sounds like politically driven revisionist history
Have you just dropped in or did you engage yourself within the first twenty oges or so of this thread. I think qe all agree that while the CONFEDERACY was all about slvery, the civil war began as n issue conceived to return the union to its pre 1860 structure. LAter, about the time that incoln sent up the EMancipation Proclamation, the war gradually became about slavery too.

Noones being "revisionist", you just want to sound out with your master strokes of the friggin obvious.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2015 07:00 pm
@Krumple,
JSYK I am pretty sure that there is at least one thread much more suited to talk about the confederate flag and flags in general. Why dontcha head on over, and dont count on Snood to do the leading.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2015 07:06 pm
Whackeye is just shooting his mouth off because he thinks it will make him look like an independent thinker, marching to the tune of a different drummer. In fact, his bullshit is as common as dirt. Nullification (called "states rights" well after the fact) was not sufficient a cause for southern states to secede and go to war. The Tariff was not a sufficient cause for states to secede and go to war. It was only the prospect of the emancipation of slaves that lead those jackasses to start a war they couldn't win.

As i've said so many times--they started a war they couldn't win and got their collective ass kicked. They've been whining about it ever since. I'm not surprised to see Whackeye joining the whiners.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2015 07:26 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Whackeye is just shooting his mouth off because this question of why we fought the Civil War has been going on here for years, and it has been rather contentious , and is interesting


fixed
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2015 07:31 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Whackeye joining the whiners

the demand for individual sovereignty over ones being, to include the right to express pretty much what ever we want and the right to believe pretty what ever we want and the right to lobby for pretty much what ever we want gives you hives. Admit it.

Understanding what the war was about and trying to have respect for the opposition is the civilized thing to do. Demanding that we talk truth and demanding that we have some restraint and decorum when dealing with those who dont agree with is is a ******* requirement if we are ever going to again move this nation forwards.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2015 07:47 pm
@hawkeye10,
Setanta is a modern bigot. Rejecting everything he doesn't agree with rudeness and contempt.

When are people going to realize where the real hate comes from?
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2015 08:19 pm
@coldjoint,
most of the hate comes from a guy who prints in pink. He seems to stop short of wishing death on anyone who doesnt believe in his world view.

Look in a mirror pinky.
Set may be a bit irascible but he presents us real information. You just insult, name call, and holler. Name-calling at high descibles isnt debate. Look it up.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2015 10:44 pm
@farmerman,
I have replied in kind since I got here.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 04:45 am
Freedom does not "give me hives," Whackeye. The oppression of a large segment of the population for the material gain of a very small elite, however, does disgust me. I am also disgusted by people who don't know what the hell they're talking about shooting their mouths off for not other reason than to appear wise and sophisticated when, in fact, they are more clueless than anyone else in the discussion.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 04:47 am
Once again, nullification did not lead to war. The tariff did not lead to war. The least hint that the small elite might lose their "peculiar institution" did lead them to start a war which they could not win. They lost. I wish to hell they'd stop whining about it.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 07:48 am
@farmerman,
Dear Gomer, you are a hopeless senile drunk . If the constitution doesn't have slavery in it, why did it need an amendment to end it ? Don't give me any bullshit about how you were born there so you must know everything . You have used that argument before ....

The Constitution of the United States :

Article I, Section 2, negotiated by James Madison of Virginia, designated "other persons" (slaves) to be added to the total of the state's free population, at the rate of three-fifths of their total number, to establish the state's official population for the purposes of apportionment of Congressional representation and federal taxation.

Article I, Section 9, forbade the Federal government from banning the "importation" of persons that an individual state's laws considered "proper to admit" until January 1, 1808 .

Article IV, Section 2 , As further protection for slavery, the delegates approved of this section which prohibited states from freeing slaves who fled to them from another state, and required the return of chattel property to owners.

Article V, prohibited amending those portions of Article I, Section 9 before 1808.

The effect of these laws concerning slavery was to increase the power of southern states in Congress for decades, affecting national policies and legislation. The planter elite dominated the southern Congressional delegations and the United States presidency for nearly 50 years. a tax of ten dollars each was allowed for each of these 'other persons" (and which was immediately imposed, after ratification). By prohibiting Federal banning of the slave trade for two decades, the constitution effectively protected the trade until 1808, giving the States 20 years to resolve this issue. During that time, planters in states of the Lower South imported tens of thousands of slaves, more than during any previous two decades in colonial history.

Yep . Gomer will argue with some dribble about what he meant . Watch .
Ionus
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 07:50 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
The fact is that the concept pf slavery (as defined by that word was NEVER mentioned anywhere in the USC.
Gomer, you are a prize idiot . You could win awards at the local show .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 08:23 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
They came here in chains to fulfill an indenture contract?
No, but some were put in chains after they arrived because they were a flight risk . Just like some slaves . Or do you imagine slaves went to bed in chains ?

Quote:
And certainly indentured servants were not sold "down the river" that broke up indentured families.
They certainly were...

Quote:
Whipping. Were indentured servants whipped?
Some were...just like some slaves...in neither case was it prevalent .

Between one half and two thirds of the immigrants in the 17th and 18th centuries were indentured . Some were kidnapped poor children who would never be released but spend a lifetime in servitude . Others were decieved into signing or had the terms misrepresented .

Quote:
And, your offer to "chat when" I get back is offensive.
Good . I find your whole attitude offensive .

Quote:
I find it hard to believe you were taught American history like an American.
??? Only an USAian can learn USA history ? Are you genetically superior over there ? Or is it because you know nothing of the world and its history, so you assume you must be well versed in your own or else you are complete idiots .

About 189,000 black slaves came to the USA before the revolution . 48% of the 450,000 or so European arrivals were indentured servants in the same period .

Quote:
Indentures could not marry without the permission of their owner, were subject to physical punishment (like many young ordinary servants), and saw their obligation to labor enforced by the courts. To ensure uninterrupted work by the female servants, the law lengthened the term of their indenture if they became pregnant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 08:41 am
An aside from the flow of discussion:

Forty suspected Union sympathizers in Confederate Texas were hanged at Gainesville in October 1862. Two others were shot as they tried to escape. Although the affair reached its climax in Cooke County, men were killed in neighboring Grayson, Wise, and Denton counties. Most were accused of treason or insurrection, but evidently few had actually conspired against the Confederacy, and many were innocent of the abolitionist sentiments for which they were tried.
If you would like to read more, click here:
https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/jig01
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 09:32 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
Dear Gomer, you are a hopeless senile drunk .
This is why you wear out elcomes so quickly. As I said to pinky, Insult does not constitute debate.

As far as your assertion (seldom right but never in doubt)

Ever hear of our Supreme Court?
Apparently not.

As I said bfore and was honestly asking a question/. WHERE IN THE US CONSTITUTION DOES THE WORD SLAVERY OCCUR???

you can dance around, throw all the insults you wish, but obviously youre just covering over a vast (or with you its a half Vast) pile of
ignorance.

I would then (since youre apparently not completely ineducable ) try reading. Im sure we can provide a nice several foot bookshelf covering the topic. I suggest a series of books by Michael Burlingame

LINCOLN-"A Life"
and
LINCOLN AND THE CIVIL WAR

The books do have words longer tha 4 letters so youll need a dictionary
DICK'--SHUN _AIR EE
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 09:40 am
@hawkeye10,
Yes, the right of a state to let it's citizens own slaves.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 09:41 am
@coldjoint,
You keep not thinking, Pinkie. It's what you are good at.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 10:27 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
If the constitution doesn't have slavery in it, why did it need an amendment to end it ?
Well, there law and especially constitutional law must be taught differently in Australia than elsewhere.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 12:22 pm
Slavery was not mentioned in the Constitution because it was an already existent institution, having been foisted on the early colonists by British planters and merchants in the West Indies. Americans were just dealing with the situation as it existed in 1787.
Foofie
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 19 Jul, 2015 02:09 pm
@Ionus,
I lost my interest. It's summer up here; very hot.
0 Replies
 
 

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