61
   

The Confederacy was About Slavery

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 10:11 am
@DrewDad,
How foolish of me not to have known!
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 10:52 am
@electronicmail,
If we recall the Gen Loring v Gen Jackson Incident, we can see that BEnjamin was another example of "The SOuth didnt suffer from a lack of good leadership> They actually suffered from an overabundance of bad leadership".

So you arent caught up for a lack of English skills, heres an article about Gov Bob of Va.

Quote:
: Slavery-Denial in Old Virginny
by BAR editor and senior columnist Margaret Kimberley

“They are nostalgic for the days when they were able to own human beings as property.”
April 2011 will mark the sesquicentennial of the American Civil War. There will undoubtedly be new books published, speeches made and commentaries written to mark this watershed event. That is as it should be, but the governor of Virginia has given us a preview of the ugly sentiments that will be celebrated and lies that will become accepted as truth if they are not responded to swiftly.
Despite the fact that his last two predecessors had ignored the tradition, Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell felt compelled to resurrect the celebration of Confederate History Month. His declaration of the commemoration began as follows: “WHEREAS, April is the month in which the people of Virginia joined the Confederate States of America in a four year war between the states for independence that concluded at Appomattox Courthouse;…”
McDonnell’s original proclamation made no mention of slavery as being part of Virginia’s history. The elephant in the living room of Virginia history was nowhere to be found.After criticism and bad press ensued, the governor added these words to his proclamation: “WHEREAS, it is important for all Virginians to understand that the institution of slavery led to this war and was an evil and inhumane practice that deprived people of their God-given inalienable rights and all Virginians are thankful for its permanent eradication from our borders, and the study of this time period should reflect upon and learn from this painful part of our history.” It was mighty white of McDonnell to make that point.
“The elephant in the living room of Virginia history was nowhere to be found.”
Virginia brought chattel slavery to the land that became the United States. In1619 a cargo of enslaved Africans arrived on Virginia’s shores, the first such occurrence in an English colony. Virginia was known as the slave breeding state, and was the linchpin of the second middle passage, the sale of thousands of slaves within the United States which took place as Indian lands were stolen and white settlement spread. Given the crucial role that Virginia played in the history of slavery, it is curious yet not really shocking that the governor initially left out any mention of it in his proclamation.
White nationalism is this country’s religion,the true source of American patriotism and it is never far from the surface of public discourse on any issue. Yet its followers now have a slightly more difficult path to tread. They cannot openly declare themselves to be worshippers of their bloody history of decimating native populations and enslaving Africans. Like McDonnell they will claim that the civil war was a war for independence and that their only goal is to remember their beloved ancestors and their heritage.
They do love their ancestors but not just because they were kin. They are also nostalgic for the days when they were able to own human beings as property.They are nostalgic for Jim Crow segregation, America’s apartheid system, which made every white man, woman and child someone else’s master.
It will be important in the next year not just to rebut their dangerous claims, but to claim history for ourselves. Yes Virginia, slavery was the cause of the civil war. Chattel slavery was wildly profitable, yet in a tenuous position if it was restricted to the South. It could not survive in the Confederacy alone, it would eventually be weakened if it was not allowed to spread across the continent.
“White nationalism is this country’s religion.”
Abraham Lincoln, the not so great emancipator, was originally willing to allow slavery to flourish where it already existed. Yet his hands off approach was not good enough for the McDonnell ancestors, who might have profited for decades to come had they not insisted on fighting a war to ensure the spread of their evil way of life.
That is what ought to be remembered in 2011. The southern slavery forces so beloved by Governor McDonnell had no intention of giving up their peculiar institution in 1861. They wanted to expand it, they wanted to bring back a legal slave trade in Africans. It was the pro-slavery forces in America who fired the first shots at Fort Sumter. They forced every white northerner to become a slave catcher with every Fugitive Slave Act or Dred Scott decision and turned formerly apathetic people against them.
They would not have been stopped without warfare. Slavery could only be crushed by the military defeat of the slaveholders and the non-slaveholders who were so eager to support them. If there is to be a sesquicentennial celebration, let it be for the war itself. Let it be a declaration that the evils of slavery would have continued for many years to come if the confederacy had not been defeated militarily.
“Whereas: Virginia and rest of the south lost a war which they started in 1861. They were responsible for the deaths of millions of people in the slave trade and the degradation of their descendants for more than two hundred years. They were responsible for the deaths of more than 600,000 combatants in that conflict. Their defeat in war was right and just and meant the end of the evil system of chattel slavery in America.”
Now that would be a declaration.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 02:50 pm
So was it money and power that drove Ionus's colonialist ancestors too, or was it something else:

Quote:
To the Europeans of Tasmania the Blacks were an entity fit only to be exploited in the most sadistic of manners--a sadism that staggers the imagination and violates all human morality. As UCLA professor, Jared Diamond, recorded:

"Tactics for hunting down Tasmanians included riding out on horseback to shoot them, setting out steel traps to catch them, and putting out poison flour where they might find and eat it. Sheperds cut off the penis and testicles of aboriginal men, to watch the men run a few yards before dying. At a hill christened Mount Victory, settlers slaughtered 30 Tasmanians and threw their bodies over a cliff. One party of police killed 70 Tasmanians and dashed out the children's brains."

Such vile and animalistic behavior on the part of the White settlers of Tasmania was the rule rather than the exception. In spite of their wanton cruelty, however, punishment in Tasmania was exceedingly rare for the Whites, although occasionally Whites were sentenced for crimes against Blacks. For example, there is an account of a man who was flogged for exhibiting the ears and other body parts of a Black boy that he had mutilated alive. We hear of another European punished for cutting off the little finger of an Aborigine and using it as a tobacco stopper. Twenty-five lashes were stipulated for Europeans convicted of tying aboriginal "Tasmanian women to logs and burning them with firebrands, or forcing a woman to wear the head of her freshly murdered husband on a string around her neck."

Not a single European, however, was ever punished for the murder of Tasmanian Aborigines. Europeans thought nothing of tying Black men to trees and using them for target practice. Black women were kidnapped, chained and exploited as sexual slaves. White convicts regularly hunted Black people for sport, casually shooting, spearing or clubbing the men to death, torturing and raping the women, and roasting Black infants alive. As historian, James Morris, graphically noted:

"We hear of children kidnapped as pets or servants, of a woman chained up like an animal in a sheperd's hut, of men castrated to keep them off their own women. In one foray seventy aborigines were killed, the men shot, the women and children dragged from crevices in the rocks to have their brains dashed out. A man called Carrotts, desiring a native woman, decapitated her husband, hung his head around her neck and drove her home to his shack."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 03:20 pm
@electronicmail,
Quote:
It's no more likely that the holocaust and iceberg fairy tales you can't provide any sources for.


So are you saying that the holocaust never happened, or are you saying that there is no source material proving it happened??
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 03:22 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
It's no more likely that the holocaust and iceberg fairy tales you can't provide any sources for.


So are you saying that the holocaust never happened, or are you saying that there is no source material proving it happened??


Wouldn't either alternative answer make him a loon, MM?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 03:24 pm
@electronicmail,
Climate change denial is different from slavery denial and holocaust denial.
Climate change is based on science and on-going; slavery and holocaust are well documented and proven as historical fact.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 03:42 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:
Wouldn't either alternative answer make him a loon, MM?

Shows him to be a loon; it's not what makes him a loon.
0 Replies
 
ABE5177
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 03:52 pm
@MontereyJack,
aborigines in the pacific NW kept slaves i don't know about tasmanians
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:02 pm
@ABE5177,
I'm not sure why you're making that argument; they are two different cultures. Each have their history like all cultures - both good and bad.
ABE5177
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
i'm confused this is about slavery?

so it's relevant aborigines kept slaves in the NW
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:29 pm
@ABE5177,
Yes, the topic is, "The Confederacy was About Slavery."

I'm thinking more in line that it's about the US, and the Civil War. At least for me, "Confederacy" is the key word.

I could be wrong.
LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, exactly. This topic is about the U.S. Civil War, and the fact that it was about slavery, and the Confederacy's defense of slavery.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Slavery denial is the same as Holocaust denial.
So slavery didnt happen according to some ? Are you certain thats what FM meant ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:56 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
Quote:
Any connection to climate change denial?
Often so, since you asking.


Often so ? Slavery Denial, Climate Change Denial and the Holocaust Denial are all connected ?? How ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:57 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Judah, his name was Judah . . . not Judas.
Perhaps you are unaware of the connection ....the difference is very minor....
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 05:04 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Ionus's colonialist ancestors
You know about my ancestors ? I would love to hear more...I always got the impression they were more enthusiastic than selective but I would love to hear from someone who really knows.....
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 05:05 pm
@MontereyJack,
The only thing you see in my posts is my nationality ? Is your dick bigger than a clitoris ? Exaggerate in your favour.....
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2011 03:48 am
@Ionus,
This thread was started by an admitted schizophrenic and drug addict so it's no wonder he attracted like-minded posters to agree with his delusions. Most of them don't seem able to understand what they read. The only Tasmanian connection is the one in the Taz cartoon avatar of another of the insane ones here, just so you know how your nationality is involved.

The various "denialist" posts aren't even worth rebutting, they all fall into the flat-earther class of denials.

You are right that the Civil War was about States' Rights and slavery was incidental to it and the only way to prove that once and for all is to check the dates. There's no denying dates

1860 First Ordinance of Secession (South Carolina) http://www.civil-war.net/pages/ordinances_secession.asp
1861 Start of the war
1863 Proclamation for limited emancipation of some slaves only in seceding states and conditional on Union winning the war
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/emancipation_proclamation/

You want to argue with folks who can't understand 1863 comes after 1861 which comes after 1860? Be my guest I'm out of here. G'bye!
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2011 03:58 am
All of which ignores what the thread is about--that the southern confederacy was founded to protect the institution of slavery. You can rant to your heart's content, but emancipation by the North means nothing. The North didn't start the war, the South did. And they started it to protect the instution of slavery. By all means, look at the secession ordinances. They don't lie about their motives, for however much you do.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2011 04:09 am
@electronicmail,
I can understand you limited mind 's inability to distinguish how money flowed in the Confederacy. The major industries that generated cash for them , were slave dependent. Hence, most historians would state that the issue of slavery was what defined the SOuth. Id already included the initial proclamation of Seccession that was forwarded by SOuth Carolina on the day of its Seccession , which was on Dec 20 1860.
Its proclomation was ALL about slavery and its defense by SC. Later all the state proclomations were revised and presented as a uniform proclamation which merely stated that the states were secceding and the general bullshit because the war was becoming obvious at that point.

Your presentation fo various dates are kind of simple minded and dont really help any argument that you wish to make. Everyone here who has the meanest recognition of the war has, at least, some idea of the dates and the events. You seem to miss the root causes.

Youve been easy to dismiss . The value of the various evidence presented herein has not been to confront the personal animus and insulting incivility by you and another, its been the quiet presentation of facts to let an objective reader draw his or her own conclusion. I think Id like to reach the more intelligent member. SO relax, really, I dont think you'll be missed by anyone with triple digit IQ's
 

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