Israel Kills 10 in Palestinian Aid Convoy

@failures art,

Quote:

I think Israel isn't doing itself any favors by playing the PR game here.

You could have said the same about Israel's critics. It seems you like a one sided fight where you win without changing any preconceptions.

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Who cares about me? Israel is the one making itself a liability. They aren't "changing anyone's preconceptions." If anything, they are validating them. They could not have given their enemies a better weapon to use against them.

I don't think people are very eager to hear how the IDF soldiers were under attack when the soldiers where firing their guns and dropping stun grenades on the ship before they even touched down. The people on the ship have a better footing to claim that their actions where in self defense. I'd be grabbing for pipes and anything to defend myself too. This was a recipe for disaster. The use of force like this only escalated the situation.

Some commandos did get shot-- By their own guns they brought on board. Talk about falling on your own sword. It's the perfect metaphor here.

Israel, should have ate humble pie instead of trying to play the victims here. People (read: The world) would be a lot more compassionate to their defense strategy if they didn't see Israel treat these men like heroes.

A
R
They did it wrong.

2 Replies

@failures art,

Quote:

Some commandos did get shot-- By their own guns they brought on board. Talk about falling on your own sword. It's the perfect metaphor here.

Would you be happy if they brought pipes and bludgeoned each other ? Perhaps Police should carry metal pipes.

Quote:

People (read: The world) would be a lot more compassionate to their defense strategy if they didn't see Israel treat these men like heroes.

What if they were heroes ? I know some men who are still very bitter when Fire Support base Coral nearly got over run. One soldier in the dark picked up a shovel instead of the sub machine gun in use at the time. When he realised he ran back to get it and killed several with the shovel before they killed him. No medal, just the men who know have a drink for him now and then. The world needs more heroes. What do you think the radicals were doing attacking armed men with pipes if not trying to be heroes ?

Quote:

the soldiers where firing their guns and dropping stun grenades on the ship before they even touched down.

Do you have a news ref ?

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My opinion is that the whole middle East just likes to kill each other. I don't understand why USA takes the side of Israel, and doesn't even try to help Palestine. Why just fuel the war with money. My advice to US is to keep your money and fix your own borders. Maybe send some money to develop Mexico.

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@lazymon,

Quote:

I don't understand why USA takes the side of Israel, and doesn't even try to help Palestine.

How ab out because Israel actually exists...

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

I still don't understand, Mexico exists as well. They are also right next door.

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@lazymon,

Quote:

My opinion is that the whole middle East just likes to kill each other.

That seems rather an odd thing to say.
Do you think they enjoy killing each other for the heck of it? Confused

1 Reply

@msolga,

I really wonder that, I mean not all of them, and they even kill themselves on purpose just to kill someone else. Humans are creatures of habit, to me I have to brush my teeth everyday, to them they must pack a grudge everyday.

1 Reply

@lazymon,

There are a lot of ordinary people whose lives have been severely affected by the ongoing conflict between the Israelis & the Palestinians. It's with them that my sympathy lies. You can't just assume that everyone is a political extremist, or a potential suicide bomber.

1 Reply

@msolga,

I really do sympathize for them I do. I just don't want to send money and encourage them as the rest of the world seems to do. It is like we are the enablers. Like a mother giving money to his drug addicted son.

1 Reply

@lazymon,

I would definitely like to see a reassessment of the US's seemingly unconditional support of Israel, for so long.

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
the soldiers where firing their guns and dropping stun grenades on the ship before they even touched down.
Do you have a news ref ?

Already posted it a page back or so. The commandos own account of the events include the firing of guns and release of stun grenades prior to boarding the vessel. Find the link to the NY Times piece I linked too. You can read it there.

A
R
T

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@msolga,

Well you have gotten your wish with Obama at the helm.

As a result, you have also virtually assured that Israel will attack Iran.

Maybe that's what Obama is hoping for?

Here's another thought: Turkey,Iran and Russia are pretty chummy of late, and Turkey has taken a very sharp turn in its foreign policy and set itself against Israel.

What would happen if there should be a militarial incident between Israel and Turkey?

Turkey is a member of NATO and the US is bound by treaty to support them militarily.

I don't think we would, but if we didn't, NATO is shaken at the roots - Russia is very happy.

If we did, the alliance between the US and Israel would be in smoking ruins - Iran is very happy.

If you don't think this is the sort of thinking and planning that goes on with global powers, you're naive. Unfortunately y I think our current leaders are too and they are ripe to get snookered.

1 Reply

@msolga,

msolga wrote:

Quote:
Gaza blockade: Iran offers escort to next aid convoy
Ian Black, Middle East editor
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 6 June 2010 21.20 BST

Ali Shirazi, an aide to Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, speaks under a picture of the supreme leader in Tehran Hojjatoleslam Ali Shirazi, an aide to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, pledged Tehran would send Revolutionary Guard units to escort Gaza aid convoys. Photograph: Reuters

Iran has warned that it could send Revolutionary Guard naval units to escort humanitarian aid convoys seeking to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza "" a move that would certainly be challenged by Israel.

Any such Iranian involvement, raised today by an aide to the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, would constitute a serious escalation of already high tensions with Israel, which accuses Tehran of seeking to build a nuclear weapon and of backing Hamas, the Islamist movement that controls Gaza.

"Iran's Revolutionary Guard naval forces are prepared to escort the peace and freedom convoys that carry humanitarian assistance for the defenceless and oppressed people of Gaza with all their strength," pledged Hojjatoleslam Ali Shirazi, Khamenei's personal representative to the guards corps.

The threat came as the Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, dismissed a UN proposal for an international commission to investigate last week's commando assault on aid ships, in which nine people died. Another aid ship, the Rachel Corrie, carrying Irish and other peace activists, was boarded peacefully by Israeli forces on Saturday, escorted to the port of Ashdod, and its passengers deported.

Netanyahu has defended Israel's right to maintain the blockade by arguing that without it Gaza would become an "Iranian port" and Hamas missiles would strike Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Israel's undeclared aim is to weaken or bring down the Hamas government.

Iran continued to exploit the "freedom flotilla" affair to lambast Israel. Its foreign minister, Manuchehr Mottaki, told the Organisation of the Islamic Conference in Jeddah on Sunday that Israel's crime was "another instance of the Zionist regime's brazen and merciless treatment of Muslims, especially the oppressed Palestinian people."

Mottaki also called for a UN resolution condemning Israel. The security council is discussing imposing new sanctions on Iran because of its failure to meet international demands over its nuclear programme.

Iran and Israel have had no diplomatic relations since the 1979 revolution and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad regularly predicts the disappearance of the Jewish state as well as denying the Holocaust.

Shirazi said Iran should encourage international efforts to break the blockade. "We should expose our enemies to spontaneous global action and not let them achieve their heinous goals," he was quoted as saying by the semi-official Mehr news agency.

Iran's Revolutionary Guards, which have a command structure separate from the regular armed forces, are fiercely loyal to the supreme leader. Khamenei has attacked the raid as a "mistake" that "showed how barbaric the Zionists are" ...<cont>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/06/gaza-blockade-iran-aid-convoy

Iran surely realizes that their ships would simply be sunk.

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

Quote:
Israelis Explain, and Mock, Flotilla Clash
By ROBERT MACKEY

Full article here: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/04/israelis-explain-and-mock-flotilla-clash/

I think Israel isn't doing itself any favors by playing the PR game here.

A
R
T

On the one hand, the only people who object to the blockade are inherently evil to begin with, so there is no point in pointing out the truth to them.

But on the other hand, I don't think it does any harm either.

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

Who cares about me? Israel is the one making itself a liability.

I don't see how they are making themselves a liability.

failures art wrote:

They aren't "changing anyone's preconceptions." If anything, they are validating them. They could not have given their enemies a better weapon to use against them.

Preconceptions are not going to change.

The evil people will hate Israel no matter what. The good people already know that Israel is in the right.

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@lazymon,

lazymon wrote:

My opinion is that the whole middle East just likes to kill each other. I don't understand why USA takes the side of Israel, and doesn't even try to help Palestine.

We understand that Israel are the good guys and are merely defending themselves.

And we understand the Palestinians are the bad guys and are trying to murder civilians (children if they can).

Being good guys ourselves, it is natural that we sympathize with other good guys.

lazymon wrote:

Why just fuel the war with money.

The war is fueled by Palestinian desire to murder Israelis.

All we do is make sure the Israelis can protect themselves.

0 Replies

@msolga,

msolga wrote:

I would definitely like to see a reassessment of the US's seemingly unconditional support of Israel, for so long.

Won't happen. We know Israel is doing nothing wrong and is merely defending themselves from murderers.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Well you have gotten your wish with Obama at the helm.

As a result, you have also virtually assured that Israel will attack Iran.

Maybe that's what Obama is hoping for?

Here's another thought: Turkey,Iran and Russia are pretty chummy of late, and Turkey has taken a very sharp turn in its foreign policy and set itself against Israel.

What would happen if there should be a militarial incident between Israel and Turkey?

Turkey is a member of NATO and the US is bound by treaty to support them militarily.

I don't think we would, but if we didn't, NATO is shaken at the roots - Russia is very happy.

If we did, the alliance between the US and Israel would be in smoking ruins - Iran is very happy.

If you don't think this is the sort of thinking and planning that goes on with global powers, you're naive. Unfortunately y I think our current leaders are too and they are ripe to get snookered.

The NATO treaty does not oblige anyone to participate in a war that Turkey starts. It is a defensive treaty.

In any case, in a war between Israel and Turkey, the US will back Israel, even with Obama as president.

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Why was there all this fuss ? All they had to do was be searched like every other ship...they didnt have to attack the Israelis with iron bars and knives...and the reason they were succesful was probably because most of the boarders had empty weapons or were under express orders not to fire, that only one person had that authority. If that is so, it seems reasonable caution was taken on the part of the Israelis. The ship personnel were looking for trouble and they found it. Now the press is beating it up.

3 Replies

Israel Kills 10 in Palestinian Aid Convoy

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