Israel Kills 10 in Palestinian Aid Convoy

@anton,

anton wrote:

As a retired Merchant Navy ship Captain I can state with A1 certainty, "Armed boarding of an unarmed Merchant ship in International waters is most certainly an act of piracy."

As someone who is aware of the fact that blockades are entirely legal acts of war, and who is aware that piracy refers exclusively to non-government actors, I can state with A1 certainty that there was no piracy on Israel's part.

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@oralloy,

I would also like to point out that under international law, the cargo does not have to threaten Israeli security.
If the cargo is anything that violates Israeli law, it is perfectly for Israel to board, search, and confiscate any of that cargo.
Every country has that legal right.

The only vessels that are exempt from that law are those flying the UN flag, and warships.

If anyone doubts that, I will be happy to repost the relevant parts of the UNCLOS and maritime law.

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@McTag,

McTag wrote:

Let's not forget, Israel fired phosphorus shells into a UN compound in Gaza, a compound which was being used as a refuge for civilian families during last year's invasion.

The words of a monster that supports putting innocent honors students in prison..... I knew it was going to be filled with falsehoods even before I read it.

Israel fired phosphorus smoke shells to obscure the movement of their troops on the battlefield. By chance some of those phosphorus smoke shells landed in a UN compound.

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@realjohnboy,

realjohnboy wrote:

I am still having trouble understanding why Israel took this action on ships that, apparently, were still in international waters. Could not they have just precluded the flotilla from docking?

They did it to ensure the cargo docked at a port where it could be inspected.

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Israeli online news: the front pages of Haaretz & the Jerusalem Post today. New developments & plenty of commentary. Well worth a look.:

http://www.haaretz.com/

http://www.jpost.com/

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

But I think your argument that the Israeli army was under "deadly attack" or under "reckless provocation" is more that a bit of a stretch.

Not really. Those soldiers would have been murdered had the "activists" overrun them.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

The solution is for Israel to start good faith negotiations to end the blockade of the Gaza Strip. This blockade has gone on for far too long & has caused terrible hardship.

Not going to happen. The blockade is necessary to prevent the Palestinians from firing artillery at Israeli civilians.

You won't see the blockade lifted until you can come up with some other way of preventing the Palestinians from firing artillery into Israel.

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@oralloy,

OK, oralloy. We get the picture. You have disagreements with everyone who disagrees with your view of the situation. We get it. Now please can you spare us the tedium of having to wade through your responses to every single post you disagree with? It's rather mind numbing. Wink

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@oralloy,

Under the UNCLOS, they can legally stop, board, and search ANY vessel that gets to within 24 miles of the Israeli coast.

Anything outside that 24 mile limit is in international waters, and is supposed to have the right of free passage.
Now, all of the reports I have seen say those ships were outside that 24 mile zone.
That is a violation of international law, and Israel can be legally responsible to pay for any and all damages.

So, Israel needs to wait till those ships get within 24 miles next time.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

Quote:
Says Joe, "What's the big deal here?"

No big deal, Joe.

Just 1.5 million Palestinians existing in a hell on earth on the Gaza Strip, that's all.
With no end in sight, thanks to you & your ilk.

And here I was thinking the Obama administration would (finally!) be a breath of fresh air, a positive influence on the conflict between the Israelis & the Palestinians. A more even-handed approach, at last.
I actually believed that. Silly me.

It's just the same old, same old.
Nothing has changed.
(Profoundly depressing.)

Obama messed up his chances of being a positive impact on the region. He sided with some of the Palestinians' unreasonable positions, and the Israelis don't trust him now.

If you want to end the blockade you are going to have to come up with another way to prevent Palestinians from firing artillery at Israel. Because otherwise the blockade will last for a very long time.

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@oralloy,

OK, I'm outta here. I will return only to post updates & any new commentary I find interesting.

Let us know when you've finished, oralloy. Neutral

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

I found this video (from the (Oz) ABC's 7:30 Report last week) really interesting.
Link to: J Street Lobby group
A new (to me, anyway) US Jewish lobby group with a very different agenda to AIPAC.
I'd be very interested in learning more, from those of you in the US who know much more about the influence of such lobby groups on US policy on Israel than I do. :

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/

Don't know about influence. Probably not all that great, but it's a new group.

I stopped paying attention when they endorsed the Goldstone report. It may well be that they needed to endorse the report despite knowing it was bogus, simply to differentiate themselves from AIPAC However, as of now I consider it a strike against them.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Under the UNCLOS, they can legally stop, board, and search ANY vessel that gets to within 24 miles of the Israeli coast.

Anything outside that 24 mile limit is in international waters, and is supposed to have the right of free passage.
Now, all of the reports I have seen say those ships were outside that 24 mile zone.
That is a violation of international law, and Israel can be legally responsible to pay for any and all damages.

So, Israel needs to wait till those ships get within 24 miles next time.

That is incorrect. There is no requirement to confine a blockade to within 24 miles of your own coast.

When the US blockaded Japan in 1945, did they confine the blockade to within 24 miles of the US coast?

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

I decry the terror heaped upon innocents by foreign invaders.

Arent you a lovely person. Or obsessed. Or just plain whacko.

Quote:

Were one of those war criminals and are to now trying to deflect it away from you and your misdeeds?

I assume you mean was I...No, I wasnt. They exist many times their actual number in your imagination..this is very empowering for you inst it ? If there were no wars you would be a shell of yourself.

Quote:

You support terrorist organizations

You mean terrorist organisations like the PLO, Hamas, Taliban, El Quada and anyone anti-USA ? No, that is you that I have been mistaken for...

Quote:

"take over Pakistan", like that's gonna happen

They had one province handed to them by the Pakistani Government. They then tried to take over the capital. I dont think I trust you enough to go to the corner store without abusing the owner for being a filty capiltalistic male chauvinistic war mongering pig.

Quote:

No, you stupid ignorant ****.

Look it is not my fault you were sodomised by an entire division...but get over it. Find some other meaning to your life apart from all this negativity.

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@msolga,

He is entitled to say whatever he wants. This is not a tea party with our two favourite dollies.

1 Reply

Doesnt anyone remember how all this came about ? The Palestinians refuse to ease the suffering of their own people. They want to fire rockets at innocent civilians. The Arabs have repeatedly tried to wipe out Israel and failed.

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@oralloy,

Since you seem to want to doubt me, lets look at exactly what the law says...

http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/conven/unclospart2.html
start reading at section 3 article 19 subsection 2(g)

That part is the part that gives Israel the right to stop and search those ships, WITHIN Israeli territorial waters.

Now, they also can legally stop ships in the contiguous zone, outside of their territorial waters.
So, lets look at what the UNCLOS says about that.

To find out what that is, just read section 4.
It is very clear about what the contiguous zone is, and what Israel can legally do in that zone.

Now what you are talking about is a military blockade, in a time of war.
The UNCLOS does not apply then, the rules of war apply.

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@Ionus,

There are interesting, informative ways, Ionus, & there are tedious, boring ways ...
Of course he is entitled to say what he wants. This is an open forum. I just wish he'd say what he wants to say in a more succinct, informed manner, not just his opinion on every single post he disagrees with.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Now what you are talking about is a military blockade, in a time of war.
The UNCLOS does not apply then, the rules of war apply.

Yes. That's what I am talking about. Israel's actions are governed by the laws of war, not by peacetime law.

1 Reply

@msolga,

msolga wrote:

There are interesting, informative ways, Ionus, & there are tedious, boring ways ...
Of course he is entitled to say what he wants. This is an open forum. I just wish he'd say what he wants to say in a more succinct, informed manner, not just his opinion on every single post he disagrees with.

I am already 100% informed. Not possible for me to be even more informed.

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Israel Kills 10 in Palestinian Aid Convoy

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