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Israel Kills 10 in Palestinian Aid Convoy

 
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 06:44 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
that's the reason that languages which still have real grammar ...


Name a language that doesn't have real grammar. What an ignorant thing, ..., wait, you're American, right?

This is where the ignorant ugly American thing comes from.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 06:54 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
If you really think that Israel should just roll over and give in to the Palestinians, many of whom were not born in Israel and have no claim to anything in Israel, then you need to learn a little more.


You might want to go back to sixth grade too, MM. Israel had no claim to any of that land. It was simply taken from others and given to them. Why should Jews from all over the world be allowed to walk into land they never had any connection with. Your argument is fatuous.

Quote:
If they decide to give in to the Palestinians, then Israel should destroy every building, every hospital, every road, every factory, every water treatment plant, every gas station, every farm, and everything else that was built by Israeli's.


And there goes the how many billions of US dollars right down the drain.

Quote:
As for the "aid" convoy approaching Israel, they have every right to stop, board, and inspect ANY vessel that is entering their territorial waters, irregardless of where that vessel is flagged.


Why is it that your terrorism and your friends' terrorism is all fine and dandy. There were plenty of terrorist Jews back when the "state" was being founded.

How come you haven't replied to the info YOU asked for? Kinda a big shock, eh? All that nonsensical propaganda that you slurped up for years and years, just a BIG ******* LIE!

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:19 pm
I found this video (from the (Oz) ABC's 7:30 Report last week) really interesting.
Link to: J Street Lobby group
A new (to me, anyway) US Jewish lobby group with a very different agenda to AIPAC.
I'd be very interested in learning more, from those of you in the US who know much more about the influence of such lobby groups on US policy on Israel than I do. :

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:19 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Israel had no claim to any of that land.
The Jews were thrown out by the Roman Empire and returned by the British Empire.

Quote:
There were plenty of terrorist Jews back when the "state" was being founded.
Which surprises me that you select terrorists over democratic countries. Palestinian and Taliban terrorists good.....Israeli and USA military forces bad.

Doesnt anyone remember how Israel got the land ? They had a fraction of what they have now but the Arabs in their arrogance tried to destroy Israel in sucessive wars and each time lost more ground. Poor Arabs....and whilst this was happening, the Palestinians used their own people as playing cards. They got them to breed for a homeland, knowing that the world would have to do something if they were poor and populous. They are also hoping to disenfranchise the Israelis in their own country by outnumbering them in any solution. And this whilst Palestinian authorities were refusing to let Palestinians settle in Arab countries and forcing them to live in refugee camps so the problem will escalate. Nice people.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:51 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
The key word, of course, being 'entering.


No, thats not the key word.
I posted a link to the relevant parts of the UN approved rules of the sea, and it clearly mentions the "contiguous" waters of a country.
Those are the waters OUTSIDE of a countries territorial waters, and when a nation can stop vessels in those waters.
I suggest you read that part.
You would see that Israel had a legal right to stop those ships, even though they were not in Israeli waters.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 11:03 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Which surprises me that you select terrorists over democratic countries. Palestinian and Taliban terrorists good.....Israeli and USA military forces bad.


WTF does 'select' mean? Please explain how the Taliban are terrorists.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 11:04 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
Did you know sharks will only attack you if your wet, IT'S A FACT


No, it is not a fact.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 12:29 am
Quote:
Israel intercepts new Gaza-bound aid ship
Updated 2 hours 40 minutes ago/ABC News online

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201006/r579034_3626816.jpg
There are 11 passengers on board the Rachel Corrie. (AFP)

Israeli forces have intercepted another aid-laden ship bound for Gaza.

They are shadowing but have not boarded the Irish-owned Rachel Corrie, some 55 kilometres out in the Mediterranean, a spokeswoman for the campaign group supporting the ship said.

The 1,200 tonne ship with 11 passengers on board was hoping to arrive in Gaza bearing aid supplies this afternoon, but Israel vowed to prevent the ship from docking.

Those onboard said they were prepared for a confrontation but that they did not have weapons on the ship.

The vessel, named after an American pro-Palestinian activist killed in the Gaza Strip in 2003, was seized five days after a convoy of six was halted.

That convoy included a Turkish ship on which nine men were killed by Israeli commandos who stormed aboard.

- ABC/Reuters


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/05/2919179.htm
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 12:43 am
This has also been reported Haaretz, an online Israeli newspaper, today.:

Quote:

Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head at close range
Robert Booth
guardian.co.uk, Friday 4 June 2010 22.00 BST


Exclusive: Nine Turkish men on board Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times, autopsy results reveal
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/6/4/1275676744239/The-funeral-of-one-of-the-006.jpg
The funeral of one of the Turkish victims of the Gaza flotilla raid Crowds at the funeral of one of the Turkish victims of the Gaza flotilla raid, at the Beyazit mosque in Istanbul. Photograph: Vadim Ghirda/AP

Israel was tonight under pressure to allow an independent inquiry into its assault on the Gaza aid flotilla after autopsy results on the bodies of those killed, obtained by the Guardian, revealed they were peppered with 9mm bullets, many fired at close range.

Nine Turkish men on board the Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times and five were killed by gunshot wounds to the head, according to the vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine, which carried out the autopsies for the Turkish ministry of justice today.

The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back. Two other men were shot four times, and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, said Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the council of forensic medicine.

The findings emerged as more survivors gave their accounts of the raids. Ismail Patel, the chairman of Leicester-based pro-Palestinian group Friends of al-Aqsa, who returned to Britain today, told how he witnessed some of the fatal shootings and claimed that Israel had operated a "shoot to kill policy".

He calculated that during the bloodiest part of the assault, Israeli commandos shot one person every minute. One man was fatally shot in the back of the head just two feet in front him and another was shot once between the eyes. He added that as well as the fatally wounded, 48 others were suffering from gunshot wounds and six activists remained missing, suggesting the death toll may increase.

The new information about the manner and intensity of the killings undermines Israel's insistence that its soldiers opened fire only in self defence and in response to attacks by the activists.


"Given the very disturbing evidence which contradicts the line from the Israeli media and suggests that Israelis have been very selective in the way they have addressed this, there is now an overwhelming need for an international inquiry," said Andrew Slaughter MP, a member of the all party group on Britain and Palestine.

Israel said tonight the number of bullets found in the bodies did not alter the fact that the soldiers were acting in self defence. "The only situation when a soldier shot was when it was a clearly a life-threatening situation," said a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in London. "Pulling the trigger quickly can result in a few bullets being in the same body, but does not change the fact they were in a life-threatening situation."

Protesters from across the country will tomorrow march from Downing Street to the Israeli embassy to call for Israel to be held to account for its actions. ...<cont>


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/04/gaza-flotilla-activists-autopsy-results
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 01:21 am
@JTT,
Quote:
WTF does 'select' mean?
It means you select terrorists as someone you support.

Quote:
Please explain how the Taliban are terrorists.
They are using terror in their efforts to take back Afghanistan and to take over Pakistan. They have used it before to take over Afghanistan. They support other terrorist organisations like El Quada.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 06:23 am
@msolga,
So tthat ship is approx 30 miles out to sea, according to the article.
Once it gets to within 24 miles of Israel, then under under UN confirmed laws of the sea, Israel has every legitimate right to stop and board that vessel.

Lets see what happens then.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 10:25 am
@Ionus,
No, you stupid ignorant ****. I decry the terror heaped upon innocents by foreign invaders. Were one of those war criminals and are to now trying to deflect it away from you and your misdeeds?

The Taliban were the government [and pretty much still are] that the US government supported, dealt with, and didn't give a rat's ass how they treated the people until US companies dealings with them didn't go as planned.

"take over Pakistan", like that's gonna happen; jesus but you are a dumb asshole. That's what 24 years of military experience will give you.

You support terrorist organizations like the Australian government, the US government, ... .
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 06:06 pm
Quote:
Seized aid ship docks in Israel
By Middle East correspondent Anne Barker and wires
Updated 2 hours 34 minutes ago


http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201006/r579174_3628236.jpg
Israeli navy soldiers boarded the Rachel Corrie, with permission from its crew, on Saturday. (Supplied: Israeli Defence Force)

The passengers and crew of an Irish aid ship that tried to break the Gaza blockade are likely to be deported from Israel as soon as possible.

Israeli forces boarded the 1,200 tonne Rachel Corrie when it was around 30 nautical miles from Gaza.


The passengers and crew put up no resistance.

The ship has now docked at the southern Israeli port of Ashdod, after Israeli troops diverted it there.

Israeli officials planned to question the 11 activists onboard the ship.

Most are from Ireland and Malaysia and will be flown home as soon as possible.

Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev says the Israeli navy was left with no choice but to intercept the Irish ship.

"The first thing I think we can be thankful for is this all happened without any violence," he said.

"We didn't want today's incident. We had arranged yesterday, there were understandings reached with the government of Ireland, which guaranteed the free flow of all the humanitarian cargo on the ship to the people of Gaza.

"Though this was agreed to by the governments of Israel and Ireland, those activists on the boat rejected that, making the interception today unfortunately necessary."

However, the Free Gaza Movement which funded the voyage says it will continue to organise more such ships in its campaign to end the three-year blockade on Gaza.

Israel has offered to transfer the aid on board to Gaza by land once it has been checked for any banned items.

But Hamas, which rules Gaza, has so far refused to allow any of the aid from last week's flotilla into the Palestinian territory.

Israel says it cannot allow unauthorised ships into Gaza because of the risk of them smuggling in rockets or other weapons

On Monday nine activists were killed after Israeli commandos boarded another aid ship bound for Gaza.

- ABC/BBC


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/06/2919378.htm
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 06:09 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:
So, this is sadly typical. I'm going to try and predict the US response. My guess is nothing severe at all.


Of course nothing severe.

I read the thread before starting to reply, and I see you've already realized that Israel aren't quite the bad guys you thought when you posted that.

I have a policy of always assuming that Israel is completely in the right whenever these sorts of situations come up.

The policy has served me well, because every single time it has turned out that Israel was completely in the right.

This isn't the first time the Palestinians have tried to wrongly portray Israel as committing some sort of crime, and sadly it won't be the last.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 06:11 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
Israel is bound and determined to shoot themselves in the foot.

From what I have heard on the news (and I admit that the reports have been sketchy) those were unarmed ships.
And while they were trying to run the Israeli blockade, there was no reason to shoot any of the people on those ships.

IF, and I stress IF, the reports are true that those people were unarmed, then the Israeli govt is in serious trouble.

However, I am willing to wait for all of the facts to come out.

However, my initial reaction stands for now.


Unarmed violent mobs are entirely capable of overrunning someone and murdering them. Firing in self-defense is entirely justified.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 06:14 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:
I am still trying to understand the "international waters" part.


It is one of the techniques that Palestinians and anti-Semites use against Israel.

They refer to some legitimate act in a tone that implies it was a horrific crime, and they hope people will assume that it was a horrific crime without bothering to think about it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 06:14 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Isn't invading a foreign-flagged vessel in international waters piracy, no matter how you do it?


Nope.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 06:18 pm
Quote:
Leftist and rightist Israelis clash at Gaza flotilla protest in Tel Aviv
Published 20:45 05.06.10
Latest update 20:45 05.06.10/Haaretz
By Chaim Levinson


Smoke grenade hurled at left wing protesters from unknown source;

Leftist and rightist demonstrators clashed Saturday night in Tel Aviv as more than 6,000 Israelis gathered to protest the Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship earlier this week, in which nine pro-Palestinian activists were killed.

http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.294360.1275766871!/image/2387543610.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_295/2387543610.jpg
Leftist protesters in Tel Aviv on Saturday, June 5, 2010.
Photo by: Nir Keidar


The protest was originally planned by to mark the anniversary of the Six Day War which broke out 43 years ago today. Among the organizers were left wing parties Meretz, Hadash and Peace Now organization. The demonstrators carried banners saying "The government is drowning us all," "We must stride for peace," and "A right wing government = clear and immediate danger to state security."

As the demonstrators marched from the Rabin Square near the city's municipal building toward the Tel Aviv museum several hundred rightist demonstrators followed the procession. Upon their arrival at their final destination the spirits heated up between the two opposing groups, during which they two sides cursed and shouted at each other.

A smoke grenade was also hurled at the left wing demonstrators from an unknown source.

Police were deployed to keep the two sides apart. Clashes were also reported on the central Ibn Gevirol Street.

Among the leftist demonstrators, hundreds carried Israeli flags to establish that they were not demonstrating against Israel nor questioning the country's existence, but rather protesting the actions executed by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's right-wing government.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/leftist-and-rightist-israelis-clash-at-gaza-flotilla-protest-in-tel-aviv-1.294359
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 06:26 pm
@msolga,
msolga wrote:
Today's editorial from the Guardian (UK).:

Quote:
There was nothing on board those ships that constituted a threat to Israel's security, so Binyamin Netanyahu's argument that his troops were acting in self-defence has no validity. They should not have been there in the first place. The convoy was carrying construction materials, electric wheelchairs and water purifiers for Gaza's people. This was recognised by the Israeli navy, who said in a statement that it had offered to transfer the aid by land to Gaza. Four years into a blockade mounted ostensibly to prevent weapons from being smuggled into the enclave, this claim, too, is utterly specious.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/01/gaza-blockade-bloodshed-editorial



That article was full of falsehoods, but I'd like to single this one section out.

Even if the cargo was legitimate, Israel had every right to inspect it to ensure that it was legitimate.

And no, it is not specious to say that it is important to deny the Palestinians the ability to fire artillery at Israeli civilians.

And in fact, the cargo was rife with contraband. The "construction materials" were for the construction of bunkers from which the Gazans could fire artillery at Israeli civilians. The electric wheelchairs had wiring, batteries, and switches that would have been used for making Improvised Explosive Devices. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that those water purifiers were for some nefarious purpose as well.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 06:29 pm
@oralloy,
I spent over 20 years in the service, I know they can.
0 Replies
 
 

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