May I see your papers, citizen?

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

DrewDad wrote:
I do have a problem with, say, a U.S. citizen being hauled downtown because he/she forgot to carry his/her wallet with her that day.

How do you feel about immigrants being hauled downtown because they forgot their wallet that day? And if your feelings are different for immigrants than for citizens---how do you expect the police to know the difference? Remember, neither one has an ID. That was the problem to begin with.

For non-citizens, being here is a privilege, and they cannot complain about being asked to carry papers. Many, many countries require visitiors to carry papers, and we have more right than most to ask this, since we are in a crisis in which we have millions and millions of people living here illegally.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Advocate wrote:

Gay marriages and women voting don't hurt the country. Illegals are killing us.

Care to back that up with any actual statistics? Seems to me, that illegal aliens are a huge part of the U.S. workforce.

That hardly gives them the right to be here or the right to be free from investigation of their illegal residence.

1 Reply

Senators Press for National Guard Troops on Border

Frustrated lawmakers are demanding action to stem the spread of violence
and drug trafficking that has spilled across the border into their states.

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@H2O MAN,

Another idea would be to do something against the use of illegal drugs/help drug users ... ... Most probably not only cheaper but more effective, especially on the long run.

But that would be against loyal US-citizens and not killing Mexicans, isn't it, waterman?

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@Walter Hinteler,

How well do you do with the Turks in Germany?

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@georgeob1,

What does that have to do with Arizona? Please feel free to start your own thread if you have concerns about illegal aliens in Germany.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Another idea would be to do something against the use of illegal drugs/help drug users ...

Waltie,

The best idea would be to end the so called 'war on drugs'.
This would be the cheapest and most effective way to achieve positive change.

Why do you want to kill Mexicans Hintelerboy?

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@Brandon9000,

We're trying to have an actual conversation, Brandon, and not just hide behind tautologies.

"Illegal aliens are here illegally." Wow. Brilliant insight.

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@H2O MAN,

Quote:

Senators Press for National Guard Troops on Border.

Jobs galore. And permanent. Another cost for the productive citizens to bear. If it works immigrants use another route. More troops needed then. And so on and so on. An Iron Curtain thousands of miles long which, if efficient, produces nothing except well paid jobs on three shifts and a demand for expensive equipment.

It's an aspect of the "revenge of the oppressed". And a goldmine for lawyers, editors and politicians which also produces nothing and the whole thing can only be fed by those who do produce goods. A more and more polarised pincers situation which cannot be dealt with unless the motive for the immigrant is removed.

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@georgeob1,

You mean me, personally? I'm just friendly with some here and a couple more in the county/state (on political level).

Generally, I think, that Germans are doing quite well with Turks.

Ehem - no police is asking them for their papers, by the way.
And out of the roughly 2.8 million Turkish co-citizens in Germany, more than one third has the German nationality .

One of Germany's largest travel agency (they've an own hotel chain as well) is privately run by a German with Turkish roots ("?-ger Tours", "?-GER TÜRK TUR"

I do think, however, George, that you posed an interesting question.

Since the Turks are mainly Muslims - do you consider the illegals in the USA to have a different religious background as well? I mean, as a former Jesuit pupil, you perhaps do know that Mexicans are mainly Catholic?

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
Senators Press for National Guard Troops on Border.

A more and more polarised pincers situation which cannot be dealt with unless the motive for the immigrant is removed.

That's easy... end the war on drugs.

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@spendius,

Don't be alarmed, Mr. S. It's an election year so we'll hear promises of securing the border from both sides for another 5 months or so. Happens every cycle. They have no intention of actually doing it, however. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Smile

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@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Advocate wrote:

Gay marriages and women voting don't hurt the country. Illegals are killing us.

Care to back that up with any actual statistics? Seems to me, that illegal aliens are a huge part of the U.S. workforce.

They are killing (not literally) my fellow citizens whose wages are driven down by the illegals, as well as my fellow citizens who lose their jobs to illegals.

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@Advocate,

That's some fine police work, Lou.

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Besides the mexican president, drug cartel front, has derided us for passing a raciest law. So its for us time to back up before the Mexican government punishes us by withdrawing all its citizens. If this were to happen where would we get our cheap labor that so many U.S. business men love. By the way I have noticed that some here say that the illegals dont take jobs from U.S. citizens. In the little town in which I live jobs are from 20 to 40 miles away and many here do handyman yard work because they have too. Some used to do roof work but the mexican outfits have undercut them. People here do what they have to, to get groceries. Saying the illegal mexicans dont take jobs from american citizens is a load of crap.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:
Your situation is somewhat abnormal, what I don't get is how it escapes you that Americans have every rational/reasonable reason to support Americans over those who want to come here.

Well, if you're going to take the Adam Smith approach, then I'd say that greater competition for unskilled labor benefits me more than supporting Americans uber alles.
If I were competing for those unskilled labor jobs, I might feel differently.

I agree. While it's true that immigrants tend to decrease American wages, every wage dollar an American worker earns less is a wage dollar an American employer pays less. The economic effect of immigrants---legal or not---is to redistribute income between American employers and American workers. There is no net loss of dollars to America as a whole.

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@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

For non-citizens, being here is a privilege, and they cannot complain about being asked to carry papers. Many, many countries require visitiors to carry papers, and we have more right than most to ask this, since we are in a crisis in which we have millions and millions of people living here illegally.

That's true as far as it goes. Now let's talk about the practicalities of it: How does the police know whom to ask for their ID, and whom to take to the station if they don't provide one, without having looked at that ID first? The foreign countries you mention solve this problem by requiring everyone---citizen or not---to carry a photo ID. I have no problem with this; indeed I think it's reasonable. But you can't do that if you want to keep distinguishing between citizens and non-citizens. So how do you resolve this paradox?

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@rabel22,

Quote:

Besides the mexican president, drug cartel front, has derided us for passing a raciest law

Do you even know what the Mexican president's name is or what political party is his from? After you have googled that, you can find out what his policy toward the drug cartels has been.

In truth, the drug cartels exist due to the strong support of the American citizens who are their best customers. Without the inflow of money from Americans (and guns from Americans) the drug cartels would go away.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

The foreign countries you mention solve this problem by requiring everyone---citizen or not---to carry a photo ID.

That's not true for Germany (see my above posts) - for German citizens as well as for foreigners.
(Non-Schengen country citizen, though, must have the border papers still within a 30-km-zone of the border - since they are the only persons whose papers can be controlled when enterying Germany.)

Foreigner or German citizen - you must own some ID-papers but are not forced to carry them with you. (Though for non-EU-/non-Schengen-country persons it would fasten the procedure a lot if they are asked for papers and had them at hand. Wink

)

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
We know, Walter. It's the most stereotypical Nazi line ever -- "Show me your papers!"

Well, you probably don't know, however, that the Nazi government ended 65 years ago.

Thanks for the update, Walter.

1 Reply

May I see your papers, citizen?

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