May I see your papers, citizen?

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Most illegal immigrants dont speak english very well, so any cop would know to ask someone with a severe accent, no matter what that accent was.

Well, to my limited experience in the USA, quite a few US citizens don't speak English well ... at least, when you take BE as the parameter.

1 Reply

@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

Quote:
"Kinda sounds like you're implying that illegal immigrants and the homeless should not be afforded police protection."

LOL. Being homeless is now a crime under Arizona law?! With due respect, Drew, you've just lost it completely

This is what you said:

High Seas wrote:

Isn't whoever is taking down a report supposed to say OK, what's your name? Address? Occupation? Any ID?

Sounds to me as if that would include homeless folks along with illegal immigrants.

Actually, illegal immigrants would probably be able to answer more of those questions than a homeless person would.

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

There is one thing that all of you seem to forget.

ANYONE with a "green card" must, by law, carry it at all times and be prepared to show it to any law enforcement officer that asks to see it.
So, how is Az violating anyones rights by asking to see it?

No, we haven't forgotten, and no, we don't have a problem with folks being required to carry their green cards.

I do have a problem with, say, a U.S. citizen being hauled downtown because he/she forgot to carry his/her wallet with her that day.

4 Replies

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

I do have a problem with, say, a U.S. citizen being hauled downtown
because he/she forgot to carry his/her wallet with her that day.

We don't think that will happen.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

The Arizona law in question merely codifies a selection of provisions already established in Federal Law. The state passage of this legislation simply authorizes state officals to enforce them. It doesn't create any new restrictions or restraint on the part of visitors or immigrants, legal or illegal.

This law doesn't just authorize state officials to enforce federal laws, it mandates that they do with significant penalties if there is even the appearance that they are not. (Defending against citizen lawsuits is a significant penalty for small police departments.) By doing this, this law creates large incentives for the police to go after people with brown skin even if they are citizens in order to provide the appearance of enforcing the law. I've already posted a story where a citizen was arrested in her workplace and held for four hours even though she protested she was a citizen. The police weren't interested in her claims. The argument that inconviencing some citizens in order to address the base problem is really convient when you know that you won't have to bear that burden since you don't have brown skin.

0 Replies

@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

On April 30, the Arizona legislature passed, and Governor Brewer signed, House Bill 2162, which modified the law that had been signed a week earlier, with the amended text stating that "prosecutors would not investigate complaints based on race, color or national origin." People in Arizona can only be questioned about immigration in connection with some other business.

This is a fig leaf. There is no way to enforce this law without profiling based on color. I'd be fine in Arizona arrested every single person who could not prove citizenship when stopped for any violation, but we know that if you have white skin, no one's going to even ask you for your papers much less take you in if you don't have ID on you.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

I do have a problem with, say, a U.S. citizen being hauled downtown because he/she forgot to carry his/her wallet with her that day.

We've got ID-cards here since ages, and since more than 100 years every German is obliged to own an identity card [or a passport] from the age of 16 onwards.

But not to carry it with her/him.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

We know, Walter. It's the most stereotypical Nazi line ever -- "Show me your papers!"

2 Replies

@ebrown p,

You should have heard the strident woman interviewed on NPR. She had purposefully driven out of her way into AZ to spend the night and have breakfast. She was screaming in a shrill voice, "Listen to the people, THE PEOPLE."

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

The Montgomery Bus Boycott prompted the Civil Rights movement. Nearly a decade later, hundreds of college students went down south for Freedom Summer. People worked for many years to correct the right wing generated anti-Black laws of this country, the American apartheid. People in the middle kept saying, "It is too soon," while the Black Power movement grew out of the civil rights movement.

0 Replies

@Ticomaya,

ArIZoNa = Nazi Oar

Coincidence?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

How many cops can tell a German accent from a French accent from a Spanish accent from an Italian accent from a Slavic accent from a Greek accent?

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

That's true!

0 Replies

@Ticomaya,

Ticomaya wrote:

We know, Walter. It's the most stereotypical Nazi line ever -- "Show me your papers!"

Well, you probably don't know, however, that the Nazi government ended 65 years ago.
Though for about four years afterwards, the US and British authoritative forced Germans to carry ID-cards all the time with them, the German law says different since 1949 as it did before 1934.

According to §1 of the German Identity Card Act (Gesetz über Personalausweise, PersAuswG), every German citizen aged over 16 years is obliged to own an ID card to be able to prove his or her identity.

From "wikitravel":

Quote:

"By law you must have original or photocopied photo ID with you if you are over 16 (e.g. passport and/or visa papers). The police are generally very helpful but they have heard all the stories about "I forgot my papers" before and will likely be sceptical about any explanation, so it is better to bring photocopies if you have left your original documents in the hotel."

This is a popular urban legend. It might have been the case in past dictatorial/communist regimes but certainly not in Germany today.

In Germany citizens above the age of 16 are required to have some form of ID. However, there is no obligation to carry this ID with you. If anybody came into a situation where police would want to determine their identity, police would likely react the same as in any other country and, depending on the circumstances, figure out a way of determining who you are. But again, none of this is specific to Germany. Therefore I deleted the section. This is an article on the German Wikipedia (in German) that explains in more detail: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausweispflicht and this is straight from the horse's mouth, the federal ID law: http://bundesrecht.juris.de/persauswg/ --Dred 06:56, 12 February 2010 (EST)

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

I actually have a problem with the fact that most of the righties are all in favor of "people with accents" being questioned but are AGAINST the retention of sex offenders who are already imprisoned.

2 Replies

@H2O MAN,

if you are stopped by a cop and if you do not have your driver's license, theoretically, you have 24 hours to produce said license.

2 Replies

@plainoldme,

In the first part of the season finale for the science fiction program, "Fringe," the Fringe task force for the alternate universe is depicted as being part of the Department of Defense and asks members of the public for a "show me," which appears to be a national identity card. In fact, when an intruder from our universe is searched, and his driver's license is found, the other universe task force says, "That's not a show me."

Now, to answer the righties, I will ask a question: you do know that science fiction is primarily a means of casting a light upon our own society, a way of making social commentary, don't you?

2 Replies

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

You should have heard the strident woman interviewed on NPR. She had purposefully driven out of her way into AZ to spend the night and have breakfast. She was screaming in a shrill voice, "Listen to the people, THE PEOPLE."

THE PEOPLE overwhelmingly support Arizona's new law.

0 Replies

@DrewDad,

In your narrow mind, apparently not.

0 Replies

@plainoldme,

Theoretically, but if you get stopped for a driving infraction and can not produce
a valid drivers license the police can haul your dumb ass in right then and there.
I don't have a problem with this because I carry my license on my person at all times.

0 Replies

May I see your papers, citizen?

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