Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 11:21 am
"My country right or wrong" is like saying "My mother drunk or sober."

G. K. Chesterton
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 11:42 am
LW

No offense taken by your snide inferences, inuendo, cynical "mental jousting" flawed thinking, etc. BTW I don't play poker with lightweights----I always play no limit and only 5 card stud.

You lightweights always make things personal but then you can't take it when things start to get bloody.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 11:48 am
This is an excercise in futility, you have yet to do anything on this thread but make it personal. It's getting old.

Since you play poker how about starting a thread to teach it? I love card games and am ashamed to admit that I know nothing about poker.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 12:00 pm
perception

Please lighten up. And definitely cease with the insults. I DO, though you are possibly in doubt about this, want to have your viewpoints forwarded here too. If I get certain I'm right, then I'm in trouble because I'll stop learning. But the many of us who left abuzz did so in large part because of the sort of uncivil tone in your last post. We won't tolerate it here. A healthy democracy means not just allowing others to express their views, but to encourage them to do that.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 12:02 pm
Cynicism is an unpleasant way of saying the truth and, curiously, facts sometimes cloud the truth. Consistency is certainly your best suit, perception, but you fail to realize that there are other points of view other than your own. Your words seem to cloak a controlling personality -- if you were to admit you'd like everyone to think exactly like you, it would make things easier. Other than that, I consider it unpleasant when the subject is the most liveable country and all you can come up with is the same tired platitudes that build a wall about as impregnable as whipping cream.
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 12:19 pm
Gee-----I sure did stir up this nest of hornets-------I just get bored when everyone is agreeing and slapping each other on the back.

It was in bad taste to do it on this thread-----my hands are still stinging.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 12:21 pm
Did it? I thought I said Scotland!
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 12:22 pm
Wouldn't it be nice if every place was so livable that our lists were huge and based on things like climate and shoreline, or a favored city, not whether or not someone would allow us to act & believe as we will?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 12:26 pm
Well, actually I certainly know better places to live than here:
im my dreams, I'm wanting to stay for vacancies (let's say: every three months) in France (for a change: one time at some coastal area, the other in Paris or Alsace) and live in England (Cheshire would be nice, Devon(Dorset as well ... .

I think that I'm a rather average German, because not drinking but knowing all good beers (and several breweries).
(My cooking, in the other side, is the only reason, people visit us.)
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 12:33 pm
So you would want to stay in Europe then, Walter?

Now I'm wondering about your cooking!
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 12:34 pm
I realize these quotes should be in the quotations category but considering the course of this thread:

"Schools are out to teach patriotism; newspapers are
out to stir up excitement; and politicians are out to get
elected.

None of the three, therefore, can do anything whatever
toward saving the human race from reciprocal suicide."
Bertrand Russell.

It's not necessary for anyone to volunteer that any of these quotes apply to them unless they are feeling guilty. Nobody is going to move out of the U.S. purely because of the U.N. list as it has to be considered if it is actually a geographical -- by that, I mean, that life will improve by going somewhere else. Hot news -- you go with it! Mark Twain wondered around Europe trying to find solace away from the tragedies in his life, not just to do tours and lectures (which he hated, incidentally). I suggest one read his later works if you want to read some potent cynicism about politicians and humanity in general. If one wants to defend with vehemence where they are at geographically and ideologically, it has to be because they feel they are vulnerable. We really should try to keep the vehemence out of a barroom brawl milieu.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 12:36 pm
For living, honestly:yes.

Re cooking: no-one was poisened until now, all came voluntarily for re-visits.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 12:40 pm
Back to the topic, I have considered moving the Hawaii many times except when I was there for any length of time, I got island fever! And I didn't know there was another cook in the crowd -- I can smell that good German cuisine from here, Walter. We're actually doing Turkey Cordon Bleu today -- talk about going away from tradition! But I am doing a sweet potato souffle, so there's all the basic ingredients of the typical American Thanksgiving dinner. It's the dieting afterword that's the hardest!
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 12:43 pm
Oh, of the list, Australia would be attractive. Moving out of a country just because of politics is not my bag unless it weren't a free country. Then one has trouble getting out! So we should all be thankful this day that this is one of those free countries. It is not, however, the only free country and the only one where one can make a good honest living.
0 Replies
 
margo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 01:20 pm
LW
Australia IS quite a civilised place to live.

We (mostly) like it - and if you don't like it, you can work to change it.
Rabid patriots get very short shrift here - they just get laughed at. Talk of loving the flag, and burning it as opposition to what the country stands for is just ridiculed in Oz. Hell, most of us are trying to change the flag - get rid of that Union Jack in the corner.

I've been absolutely appalled at the vitriol and crap that passes for political debate in US, especially on chat forums, and hope it stays away from here. I was hesitant about entering even this discussion, which should be aboput places to live, because of the tenor of some posts. Really, people - get a grip!
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 02:43 pm
I think Lightwizard used this thread as a (healthy) provocation.

I believe a true patriot -and I consider myself to be one- understands the shortcomings and defects of his/her country, and tries to solve them. The "We-Are-Numero-Uno" stuff is quite revolting, even in those cases when you're number one.

I have read in Abuzz stuff like "if you don't like the way it is in the US you can go shove it in your Socialist Australia" or "How many Norwegians would be dying to come and live in the US?".
I am not American and nevertheless felt shame for these type of ignorant answers.

The US is a GREAT country. I've visited several times, lived there for a year and -being a Mexican- know quite a few people, American and foreign, who live there and like it best of all places.
As for my personal tastes, I wouldn't even put the US among the top ten livable countries. Too much violence, too much race distinction, too much materialism, too much effort and time put into making money, too little appreciation of the small, nice things in life. I'm not judging anyone, maybe I don't put the US in the top ten because I have never gone hungry, or because European culture attracted me from early life.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 03:49 pm
I do support the original ideals of the governmental structure of the United States and the forefathers who conceived them. They all feared a two party system and the rabble taking over the running of the government. I still feel we are not in serious trouble but are stagnated and only doing what is necessary to survive. The Ugly American of the past was generated by travelers in foreign countries who were not good representatives of what the U.S. stands for and it shouldn't be the smug, arrogant posturing we see too much of within this country. This isn't a football game -- its a social organization with many different races and nationalities melded together. People who leave other countries to come and live in the U.S. and even become citizens don't lose their love of their native country
even if it isn't a free country. They only pledge an allegeance to this country (better look up that word allegeance!) They can hate the leaders and the government of a supressive ideology in their native country but they don't hate the country. I don't hate any of our leaders, I just sometimes hate what they do. Yes, including Clinton. Politicians are down there with used car salesman and there's no getting around it. Not to say that we have had at least a handfull of true statesmen in our history.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 04:39 pm
I wanna a big, cozy log house in the Great White North, in which I will be number one . . . well, 'cept fer maybe Lovey . . . an' then there's them darn ol' dogs, too . . .
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 05:12 pm
Well, lots to choose from on the top ten list that have Great White North regions:

1. Norway
2. Sweden
3. Canada
7. Iceland
8. Netherlands
10. Finland

What is it with these Winter Wonderlands? Of course, I realize that now even in Orange County, it's traffic, pollution and many other factors that make it less desirable. Usually a lot of high paying jobs but expensive real estate, plus we're not that far away from what could be a terrorist target - San Onofre Nuclear Power Plant. When's the last time you heard of a terrorist attack in the the cold countries? Are they afraid they'll freeze their little tooties off? It would be a lot of other plusses that are in the study and whether you can pull up roots and leave "civilization" (which every year looks less civilized).
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 06:06 pm
Well, for my own idiocencratic reasons, I prefer above all other places, New York City. European cities are also nice, most are far more beautiful than American cities. But I must admit I have a bit of a problem with most I've visited. I don't like to eat at conventional times. And every time I've been in a European city or town, and I want to eat a meal, the restaurants are all closed. Except the last time I was in Europe, we found a McDonalds. But this was not the kind of food I wanted. I think I may be too much of an ugly American for Europe. I feel sorry about this, and maybe I could get over it if I tried harder. But the last time I was in Europe, I had teenagers with me. And that is enough to ruin any place, regardless how charming. I would be willing to try it again, without the teenagers.

And that's one thing I like about New York. It never sleeps, and the diversity of the people is magnificent. I also like to be with people, lots of them and plenty of choices for interesting things to do. And the need for a car is none. Not to mention the people, did I mention the people?
0 Replies
 
 

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