28
   

Countdown to the end of the Republic (USA)

 
 
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 06:49 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_dodger

In 2006, the long-standing rumor that Ben Barnes may have been involved was confirmed in his memoir "Barn Burning, Barn Building: Tales of a Political Life, From LBJ to George W. Bush and Beyond" [9]. Ben Barnes was Speaker of the Texas House and from 1969 to 1973 was Texas Lieutenant Governor (In Texas, the Lt. Gov. is the most powerful state official, significantly more powerful than the Texas Gov.). Barnes was instrumental in enabling numerous sons of Democratic and Republican politicians to avoid service in Viet Nam. Barnes said that he did this on his own initiative, as a political favor to George H.W. Bush without it being requested. Barnes further states:

I did make the call to the National Guard on George W. Bush's behalf, and he did jump ahead of others in line. Considering how many young men were on the waiting list at that time, there is absolutely no way Bush could have gotten into the Texas Air National Guard so quickly unless he had special help. All those who claim that Bush got into the Guard without having any strings pulled on his behalf are just flat wrong. Those are the facts...

I want to make clear how ashamed I am of what I did. I thought at the time that I was simply doing political favors, but as I got older, I came to realize I'd been playing God. For every privileged boy like George W. Bush that I helped, another young man was shipped to Vietnam. In the years since, I've wondered about the fates of those anonymous men, who were possibly killed or injured in Vietnam because of the strings I pulled. No one should have that kind of power, and I'll always be sorry that I used it in the way I did.



0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:00 am
@Advocate,
Your turn Advocate.....whats your answer?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  3  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 08:29 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

It seems a bit arrogant to attack McCain of not holding out Advocate. You could have been crying like a baby after the first hour for all we know.

Frankly, when it comes to situations like that, I don't blame anyone for how they acted. You don't know the circumstances at all yet you want to proclaim you would have somehow acted better? I call BS on anyone that declares they would have.


You are correct, but this is a guy who frequently brings up his POW background as a badge of courage and heroism. The right, and others, frequently refer to him as a war hero, and he never contradicts this. He may have been a victim, but is not a war hero.

Advocate
 
  3  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 08:40 am
@okie,
You are lying like crazy about Kerry and Bush. Kerry was a true hero, who bravely dived in the water to save a sailor while under fire. The lying Swiftboaters were not even there, and their leader was proven a liar in the Nixon tapes.

Bush did not do all he was asked to do. After the taxpayer spent millions on his training, he neglected to report for a physical for a new assignment.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 08:45 am
@Advocate,
I thing pretty much anyone who has gone through what McCain has gone through deserves to be called a hero.

He's a hero for lasting 4 days. He's a hero for living through it and not letting it hold him down. His story is inspirational, regardless of his politics.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 07:46 am
DAY 37

We are still here today...
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 30 Apr, 2010 10:27 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

You are lying like crazy about Kerry and Bush. Kerry was a true hero, who bravely dived in the water to save a sailor while under fire. The lying Swiftboaters were not even there, and their leader was proven a liar in the Nixon tapes.

Bush did not do all he was asked to do. After the taxpayer spent millions on his training, he neglected to report for a physical for a new assignment.

If you wish to investigate lies, try these:
https://facultystaff.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/johnkerrytestimony.html

"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."


http://www.qando.net/archives/002160.htm

"The Fraud of the Winter Soldier

Many statements have been made that because John Kerry participated in Viet Nam, he had earned the right to protest the war. I want to say an unequivocal “I agree”. But that being said, I’d agree that ANY American has that right. Dissent is critical to the maintenance of freedom and I’d not deny that right to anyone for any reason.

However, as with any right, there come responsibilities. One of the responsibilities incumbent upon any who dissent is to do so in a PRINCIPLED fashion. It is their right to dissent, but it is their duty to do so responsibly.

THAT is the crux of my problem with John Kerry’s dissent. For the most part it was based on fraud. His dissent was NOT based in truth. His dissent was not conducted responsibly. It was, in my opinion, based on mischaracterization, outright lies, and fraud."


BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 May, 2010 05:00 am
@okie,
Disagreeing with Kerry actions or words are one thing attacking a wounded combat vet military record because you do not care for his words or positions on the war is shameful indeed.

This is extra shameful when you doing it as an agent a man who family influence allowed him to avoid combat altogether in that very war.

Strange as there was a lot to attack Kenny over without giving up the moarl high ground by attacking his service record.
Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 May, 2010 07:55 am
It would be impossible to attack our actions in Nam too much. We killed over three million people during that bastard war, into which we were lied. Our actions were Hitlerian in every sense. We constantly bombed and shelled civilian villages and towns regardless of the civilian populations. We defoliated untold thousands of acres of land. Were Okie to have any decency, he would decry this.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 May, 2010 07:59 am
DAY 40

Still here in spite of the efforts of conservatives to destroy this country while pretending it is the fault of others.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 May, 2010 06:52 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Disagreeing with Kerry actions or words are one thing attacking a wounded combat vet military record because you do not care for his words or positions on the war is shameful indeed.

When his words and positions are lies, it does make a difference, especially when he is guilty of slandering every other Vietnam vet with his lies, it does make a difference, Bill.

Quote:
This is extra shameful when you doing it as an agent a man who family influence allowed him to avoid combat altogether in that very war.
There is no doubt that many people got into the National Guard by somebody pulling a string or two. But if that person serves with honor, which Bush did, that is still infinitely better than what Kerry was guilty of.

Quote:
Strange as there was a lot to attack Kenny over without giving up the moarl high ground by attacking his service record.
Correct, there was plenty to criticize Kerry for, and in my opinion his politics mirrored his previous history including his military service, the man was a dud, plain and simple.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 May, 2010 07:55 pm
@okie,
Quote:
But if that person serves with honor, which Bush did, that is still infinitely better than what Kerry was guilty of.


So someone dodging the draft and combat is far far better then a person who is a wounded combat Vet?????????

If a combat vet dare to disagree with your world view he is somehow less then a draft dodger who family influence were used to place him in a nice safe position?

It also become an honorable action to attack the vet not for his positions and words after he returned from combat but instead to help fund a slander campaign as you had stated you had done concern his service in combat.

We have a far different view of what is honorable and what is not it would seem.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 May, 2010 08:00 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
It would be impossible to attack our actions in Nam too much. We killed over three million people during that bastard war, into which we were lied. Our actions were Hitlerian in every sense. We constantly bombed and shelled civilian villages and towns regardless of the civilian populations. We defoliated untold thousands of acres of land. Were Okie to have any decency, he would decry this.


Almost every single word of the above I happen to disagree with however I do not feel that Advocate is a lesser person for having express those opinions or that a funded slander campaign is call for.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 1 May, 2010 08:15 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
But if that person serves with honor, which Bush did, that is still infinitely better than what Kerry was guilty of.


So someone dodging the draft and combat is far far better then a person who is a wounded combat Vet?????????

Being wounded does not make up for participating in one of the biggest frauds ever perpetrated upon Vietnam vets, that being something called Winter Soldier, and then going to testify before Congress to slander every Vietnam vet with false information.

Quote:
If a combat vet dare to disagree with your world view he is somehow less then a draft dodger who family influence were used to place him in a nice safe position?

I would not view serving in the National Guard as being a draft dodger. A draft dodger would be more applicable to somebody named Bill Clinton. It is my personal opinion that even if a string was pulled to get Bush II into the National Guard, his father was more than a hero to make up for it, and besides that, Bush II served with distinction and honor and would have gone to Vietnam if his units and aircraft had been called on to do so.

Quote:
It also become an honorable action to attack the vet not for his positions and words after he returned from combat but instead to help fund a slander campaign as you had stated you had done concern his service in combat.

We have a far different view of what is honorable and what is not it would seem.

Slander was the activity Kerry has been involved in, and the Swift Boat vets had every right to rebut what they believed to be false and fraudulant. Without going into all of that history again, I reviewed all of their information and also as someone intimately familiar with combat situations in Vietnam, I judged Kerry to be a phony fraud, and thus I have no regrets about donating to the Swift Boat cause. By the way, Kerry has persisted in insulting combat vets even during the Iraq war, insinuating that if they joined the military to find themselves sent to Iraq, they were too dumb or lazy to do anything else, and then accusing them of terrorizing women and children in the dead of night in Iraq. I've had it with the ilk of John Kerry.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 May, 2010 08:40 pm
@okie,
Quote:
would have gone to Vietnam if his units and aircraft had been called on to do so.


First the likelihood of his outfit being call up for war was near zero and everyone who found a position in the national guard knew before hands at the time that such service was nice and safe from combat in the far east.

Being in the National Guard in the 1960s was similar to hiring someone to fight for you during the civil war legal but???????

As far a Bush going or not going into combat if order to do so neither you or I can know if he would had headed for the far east or Canada

We do know that Kerry went into combat however.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 07:36 am
DAY 41

I am really confused today. Here is Obama this huge Marxist and yesterday was May Day but no pictures of the May Day parade of our military might like Marxists always seem to do. Maybe the Republic ended and no one told us and this is a clue we should pick up on.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 09:39 am
@okie,
You say that Bush served with honor. What a joke! The man essentially deserted his post when he failed to report for a physical and reassignment. His entire life has been about lies and failures. Then, unbelievably, the Reps succeeded in having this dolt elected to the presidency.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 08:49 pm
All I can say to all of you Kerry defenders and Bush haters, at least Bush did not defame and slander every military man before Congress. And as much as you hate the fact, the military loves Bush today, Bush is a military man's man.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 09:15 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

All I can say to all of you Kerry defenders and Bush haters, at least Bush did not defame and slander every military man before Congress. And as much as you hate the fact, the military loves Bush today, Bush is a military man's man.

It is only right wing ideology that sees Bush in the military as honorable. He was a chickenshit slacker.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 11:04 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Bush is a military man's man.


You joking right? You got to be joking!

First he found a way not to risk his own skin in one war and then started another war for claimed reasons he should had known at the time were bullshit that got a lot of Americans soldiers kill without an overriding need to do so.

Sorry he is not a military man or any other type of man for that matter,
0 Replies
 
 

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