5
   

Rape & the U.S. Millitary

 
 
JTT
 
  3  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 04:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Yes, do tell George....when you were a horny young man did you ever maneuver a woman into giving it up for you? If you did you raped her, using today's definition.


I really don't know what the argument is. Actually, there isn't one. no means no. It's that simple. That doesn't mean that a person, male or female, can't give it another try, but that male or female must exercise a degree of diligence that repudiates the ridiculous definitions and silly notions that existed as definitions of rape in the past.

Not taking care to exercise that due diligence will likely find one in some serious trouble. Thinking people, people who care about others feelings wouldn't even want to go close to there. Some still do. For them, there's an uncomfortable cot awaiting.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 04:24 pm
This thread has taken a downward turn even fron the dubious initial post and the "statistics" accompanying it.

I suspect few here noted that the data source in the opening reference was the statements of veterans applying for VA benefits (for PTSD) after they were released from active duty. Nor, I suspect did anyone noticed that the only comparative data offered was from the Justice department, based on legal convictions for rape.

There were many other sources of data available to the researchers. For example they could have considered actual convicions for rape under military law and compared them with the data for convictions under civil law. Unfortunately that wasn't done. They could also have tabulated the number of charges for rape or other like offenses brought under military law: unfortunately that wasn't done either. Instead they took the unsubstantiated allegations of people applying for Federal benefits for them, all long after the facts - and compared them to convictions under civil law.

This was the basis for the loud speculation that "there is something wrong with the U.S military forces". Equally interesting is the fact that no one bothered to note that the systematic inclusion of women in the combat forces is a very recent phenomenon; one still not widely practiced by other nations; and one that could plausibly bear on the issue at hand.

Dispassionate suggestions that these factors should be considered, yielded a firestorm. The dialogue quickly degenerated to Occam Bill's shrill hysterics and implications that no one except him can fully understand or appreciate the awfulness of rape; and the rather silly and girlish defensive pretenses of the author of this thread that he is somehow above all this and immune from criticism.

It's all OK by me. But don't expect to be taken seriously by serious people.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 04:26 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
I really don't know what the argument is. Actually, there isn't one. no means no. It's that simple.


the argument is over how far a person can go get another person to say yes/not say no/participate...and which of the three standards must be met. Also, over when a person does not have the legal right to consent.... such as too young, too drunk, been the subject of too much pressure to say yes (called emotional abuse).

No means no....nobody disputes that so far as I know.
JTT
 
  2  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 04:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
Those are arguments that are constantly being worked out by the legal system using idiots who feel some silly need to push the envelope as the guinea pigs.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 04:40 pm
@JTT,
so far the definition of rape has been ever expanding, I am part of the push back. When we got to the point where do-gooders started to push into the courts cases where neither party felt wronged it became time to say enough is enough. When we started to classify as rape activities that have historically been considered normal human sexual expression it become time to say enough is enough.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 04:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

so far the definition of rape has been ever expanding, I am part of the push back. When we got to the point where do-gooders started to push into the courts cases where neither party felt wronged it became time to say enough is enough. When we started to classify as rape activities that have historically been considered normal human sexual expression it become time to say enough is enough.

Your final argument in a defense case for the mis-mannered. How motivational. I'm sure the Jury was very moved.

T
K
O
JTT
 
  1  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 04:49 pm
@georgeob1,
Yeah right, Gob. Is this one of your favorite naval ditties?

=====================
And military men still sing the misogynist rhymes that have been around for decades. For example, Burke’s book cites this Naval Academy chant:

Who can take a chainsaw
Cut the bitch in two
**** the bottom half
And give the upper half to you…
=============================

Quote:

Culture of misogyny, illegal occupation, fuel sexual violence in military.

By Helen Benedict.

An alarming number of women soldiers are being sexually abused by their comrades-in-arms, both at war and at home. This fact has received a fair amount of attention lately from researchers and the press " and deservedly so.

But the attention always focuses on the women: where they were when assaulted, their relations with the assailant, the effects on their mental health and careers, whether they are being adequately helped, and so on. That discussion, as valuable as it is, misses a fundamental point. To understand military sexual assault, let alone know how to stop it, we must focus on the perpetrators. We need to ask: Why do soldiers rape?

Rape in civilian life is already unacceptably common. One in six women is raped or sexually assaulted in her lifetime, according to the National Institute of Justice, a number so high it should be considered an epidemic.

In the military, however, the situation is even worse. Rape is almost twice as frequent as it is among civilians, especially in wartime. Soldiers are taught to regard one another as family, so military rape resembles incest. And most of the soldiers who rape are older and of higher rank than their victims, so are taking advantage of their authority to attack the very people they are supposed to protect.

Department of Defense reports show that nearly 90 percent of rape victims in the Army are junior-ranking women, whose average age is 21, while most of the assailants are non-commissioned officers or junior men, whose average age is 28.

This sexual violence persists in spite of strict laws against rape in the military and a concerted Pentagon effort in 2005 to reform procedures for reporting the crime. Unfortunately, neither the press nor the many teams of psychologists and sociologists who study veterans ever seem to ask why.

The answer appears to lie in a confluence of military culture, the psychology of the assailants and the nature of war.

Two seminal studies have examined military culture and its attitudes toward women: one by Duke University Law Professor Madeline Morris in 1996, which was presented in the paper “By Force of Arms: Rape, War, and Military Culture” and published in Duke Law Journal; and the other by University of California professor and folklorist Carol Burke in 2004 and explained in her book, Camp All-American, Hanoi Jane and the High-And-Tight: Gender, Folklore and Changing Military Culture (Beacon Press). Both authors found that military culture is more misogynistic than even many critics of the military would suspect. Sometimes this misogyny stems from competition and sometimes from resentment, but it lies at the root of why soldiers rape.

One recent Iraq War veteran reflected this misogyny when he described his Marine Corp training for a collection of soldiers’ works called Warrior Writers, published by Iraq Veterans Against the War in 2008:

The [Drill Instructor’s] nightly homiletic speeches, full of an unabashed hatred of women, were part of the second phase of boot camp: the process of rebuilding recruits into Marines.

Morris and Burke both show that military language reveals this “unabashed hatred of women” all the time. Even with a force that is now 14 percent female, and with rules that prohibit drill instructors from using racial epithets and curses, those same instructors still routinely denigrate recruits by calling them “pussy,” “girl,” “bitch,” “lady” and “dyke.” The everyday speech of soldiers is still riddled with sexist insults.

Soldiers still openly peruse pornography that humiliates women. (Pornography is officially banned in the military, but is easily available to soldiers through the mail and from civilian sources, and there is a significant correlation between pornography circulation and rape rates, according to Duke’s Morris. And military men still sing the misogynist rhymes that have been around for decades. For example, Burke’s book cites this Naval Academy chant:

Who can take a chainsaw
Cut the bitch in two
**** the bottom half
And give the upper half to you…

The message in all these insults is that women have no business trying to be soldiers. In 2007, Sgt. Sarah Scully of the Army’s 8th Military Police Brigade wrote to me in an e-mail from Kuwait, where she was serving: “In the Army, any sign that you are a woman means you are automatically ridiculed and treated as inferior.”

Army Spc. Mickiela Montoya, who was in Iraq for 11 months from 2005-2006, put it another way: “There are only three things the guys let you be if you’re a girl in the military: a bitch, a ho or a dyke. One guy told me he thinks the military sends women over to give the guys eye candy to keep them sane. He told me in Vietnam they had prostitutes, but they don’t have those in Iraq, so they have women soldiers instead.”

The view of women as sexual prey has always been present in military culture. Indeed, civilian women have been seen as sexual booty for conquering soldiers since the beginning of human history. So, it should come as no surprise that the sexual persecution of female soldiers has been going on in the armed forces for decades.

• A 2004 study of veterans from Vietnam and all wars since, conducted by psychotherapist Maureen Murdoch and published in the journal Military Medicine, found that 71 percent of the women said they were sexually assaulted or raped while serving.

• In 2003, a survey of female veterans from Vietnam through the first Gulf War by psychologist Anne Sadler and her colleagues, published in the American Journal of Industrial Medicine, found that 30 percent said they were raped in the military.

• And a 1995 study of female veterans of the Gulf and earlier wars, also conducted by Murdoch and published in Archives of Family Medicine, reported that 90 percent had been sexually harassed, which means anything from being pressured for sex to being relentlessly teased and stared at.

• A 2007 survey by the Department of Veterans Affairs found that homelessness among female veterans is rapidly increasing as women soldiers come back from Iraq and Afghanistan. Forty percent of these homeless female veterans say they were sexually abused while in the service.

Defense Department numbers are much lower. In Fiscal Year 2007, the Pentagon reported 2,085 sexual assaults among military women, which given that there are about 200,000 active-duty women in the armed forces, is a mere fraction of what the veterans studies indicate. The discrepancy can be explained by the fact that the Pentagon counts only those rapes that soldiers have officially reported.

Having the courage to report a rape is hard enough for civilians, where unsympathetic police, victim-blaming myths, and the fear of reprisal prevent some 60 percent of rapes from being brought to light, according to a 2005 Department of Justice study.

But within the military, reporting is much riskier. Platoons are enclosed, hierarchical societies, riddled with gossip, so any woman who reports a sexual assault has little chance of remaining anonymous. She will probably have to face her assailant day after day and put up with resentment and blame from other soldiers who see her as a snitch. She risks being persecuted by her assailant if he is her superior, and punished by any commanders who consider her a troublemaker. And because military culture demands that all soldiers keep their pain and distress to themselves, reporting an assault will make her look weak and cowardly.

For all these reasons, some 80 percent of military rapes are never reported, as the Pentagon itself acknowledges.

This widespread misogyny in the military actively encourages a rape culture. It sends the message to men that, no matter how they feel about women, they won’t fit in as soldiers unless they prove themselves a “brother” by demeaning and persecuting women at every opportunity. So even though most soldiers are not rapists, and most men do not hate women, in the military even the nicest guys succumb to the pressure to act as if they do.

Of the 40 or so female veterans I have interviewed over the past two years, all but two said they were constantly sexually harassed by their comrades while they were serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, and many told me that the men were worse in groups than they were individually. Air Force Sgt. Marti Ribeiro, for example, told me that she was relentlessly harassed for all eight years of her service, both in training and during her deployments in 2003 and 2006:

I ended up waging my own war against an enemy dressed in the same uniform as mine. I had a senior non-commissioned officer harass me on a regular basis. He would constantly quiz me about my sex life, show up at the barracks at odd hours of the night and ask personal questions that no supervisor has a right to ask. I had a colonel sexually harass me in ways I’m too embarrassed to explain. Once my sergeant sat with me at lunch in the chow hall, and he said, ‘I feel like I’m in a fish bowl, the way all the men’s eyes are boring into your back.’ I told him, ‘That’s what my life is like.’

Misogyny has always been at the root of sexual violence in the military, but two other factors contribute to it, as well: the type of man who chooses to enter the all-volunteer force and the nature of the Iraq War.

The economic reasons behind enlistment are well understood. The military is the primary path out of poverty and dead-end jobs for many of the poor in America. What is less discussed is that many soldiers enlist as teenagers to escape troubled or violent homes.

Two studies of Army and Marine recruits, one conducted in 1996 by psychologists L.N. Rosen and L. Martin, and the other in 2005 by Jessica Wolfe and her colleagues of the Boston Veterans Affairs Health Center, both of which were published in the journal Military Medicine, found that half the male enlistees had been physically abused in childhood, one-sixth had been sexually abused, and 11 percent had experienced both. This is significant because, as psychologists have long known, childhood abuse often turns men into abusers.

In the ’70s, when the women’s movement brought general awareness of rape to a peak, three men " criminologist Menachim Amir and psychologists Nicholas Groth and Gene Abel " conducted separate but groundbreaking studies of imprisoned rapists. They found that rapists are not motivated by out-of-control lust, as is widely thought, but by a mix of anger, sexual sadism and the need to dominate " urges that are usually formed in childhood. Therefore, the best way to understand a rapist is to think of him as a torturer who uses sex as a weapon to degrade and destroy his victims. This is just as true of a soldier rapist as it is of a civilian who rapes.

Nobody has yet proven that abusive men like this seek out the military " attracted by its violent culture " but several scholars suspect that this is so, including the aforementioned Morris and Rutgers University law professor Elizabeth L. Hillman, author of a forthcoming paper on sexual violence in the military. Hillman writes, “There is … the possibility that the demographics of the all-volunteer force draw more rape-prone men into uniform as compared to civil society.”

Worse, according to the Defense Department’s own reports, the military has been exacerbating the problem by granting an increasing number of “moral waivers” to its recruits since 9/11, which means enlisting men with records of domestic and sexual violence.

Furthermore, the military has an abysmal record when it comes to catching, prosecuting and punishing its rapists. The Pentagon’s 2007 Annual Report on Sexual Assault in the Military found that 47 percent of the reported sexual assaults in 2007 were dismissed as unworthy of investigation, and only about 8 percent of the cases went to court-martial, reflecting the difficulty female soldiers have in making themselves heard or believed when they report sexual assault within the military. The majority of assailants were given what the Pentagon calls “nonjudicial punishments, administrative actions and discharges.” By contrast, in civilian life, 40 percent of those accused of sex crimes are prosecuted.

Which brings us to the question: Do the reasons soldiers rape have anything to do with the nature of the wars we are waging today, particularly in Iraq?

Robert Jay Lifton, a professor of psychiatry who studies war crimes, theorizes that soldiers are particularly prone to commit atrocities in a war of brutal occupation, where the enemy is civilian resistance, the command sanctions torture, and the war is justified by distorted reasoning and obvious lies.

Thus, many American troops in Iraq have deliberately shot children, raped civilian women and teenagers, tortured prisoners of war, and abused their own comrades because they see no moral justification for the war, and are reduced to nothing but self-loathing, anger, fear and hatred.

Although these explanations for why soldiers rape are dispiriting, they do at least suggest that the military could institute the following reforms:

• Promote and honor more women soldiers. The more respect women are shown by the command, the less abuse they will get from their comrades.

• Teach officers and enlistees that rape is torture and a war crime.

• Expel men from the military who attack their female comrades.

• Ban the consumption of pornography.

• Prohibit the use of sexist language by drill instructors.

• Educate officers to insist that women be treated with respect.

• Train military counselors to help male and female soldiers not only with war trauma, but also with childhood abuse and sexual assault.

• Cease admitting soldiers with backgrounds of domestic or sexual violence.

And last " but far from least " end the war in Iraq.

This article is adapted from The Lonely Soldier: The Private War of Women Serving in Iraq, to be published by Beacon Press in April 2009.

http://www.awid.org/eng/Issues-and-Analysis/Library/Why-Soldiers-Rape
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 04:50 pm
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
I'm sure the Jury was very moved.


Juries don't make law, they are sworn to make judgments according to the law. Unless you want to argue that citizens have a duty to nullify the law by way of refusing to follow the law, you have no point.
JTT
 
  1  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 04:55 pm
I doubt that it would come as much of a surprise to anyone that the prevalence of rape in the US military, whatever the numbers are, is clearly a function of men like George0b1.

"To make matters worse, according to Department of Defense statistics, 84-85 percent of soldiers convicted of rape or sexual assault leave the military with honourable discharges. Not only are they not penalised, they are honoured."

Quote:

Culture of Unpunished Sexual Assault in U.S. Military

by Dahr Jamail

Marfa, Texas " Sexual assault of women serving in the U.S. military, while brought to light in recent reports, has a long tradition in that institution.

Women in America were first allowed into the military during the Revolutionary War in 1775, and their travails are as old.

Maricela Guzman served in the Navy from 1998 to 2002 as a computer technician on the island of Diego Garcia, and later in Naples, Italy. She was raped while in boot camp, but was too scared to talk about the assault for the rest of her time in the military.

In her own words she, “survived by becoming a workaholic. Fortunately or unfortunately the military took advantage of this, and I was much awarded as a soldier for my work ethic.”

Guzman decided to dissociate from the military on witnessing the way it treated the native population in Diego Garcia. Post discharge, her life became unmanageable. The effects of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) from her rape had taken a heavy toll.

After undergoing a divorce, a failed suicide attempt and homelessness, she moved in with her parents. A chance encounter with a female veteran at a political event in Los Angeles prompted her to contact the veteran’s administration (VA) for help. She began seeing a therapist there who diagnosed her with PTSD from her rape.

She told IPS that the VA denied her claim nevertheless, “Because they said I couldn’t prove it … since I had not brought it up when it happened and also because I had not shown any deviant behaviour while in the service. I was outraged and felt compelled to talk about what happened.”

Like countless others, Guzman learned early that the culture of the military promoted silence about sexual assault. Her experience over the years has convinced her that sexual violence is a systemic problem in the military.

“It has been happening since women were allowed into the service and will continue to happen after Iraq and Afghanistan,” Guzman told IPS, “Through the gossip mill we would hear of women who had reported being raped. No confidentiality was maintained nor any protection given to them making them susceptible to fresh attacks.”

“The boys’ club culture is strong and the competition exclusive,” Guzman added, “To get ahead women have to be better than men. That forces many not to report rape, because it is a blemish and can ruin your career.”

She is not hopeful of any radical change in policy anytime soon, but, “One good thing that has come out of this war is that people want to talk about this now.”

More than 190,000 female soldiers have served thus far in Iraq and Afghanistan on the front lines, often having to confront sexual assault and harassment from their own comrades in arms.

The VA’s PTSD centre claims that the incidence of rape, assault, and harassment were higher in wartime during the 1991 U.S. attack on Iraq than during peacetime. Thus far, the numbers from Iraq show a continuance, and increase, of this disturbing trend.

The military is notorious for its sexist and misogynistic culture. Drill instructors indoctrinate new recruits by routinely calling them “girl,” “pussy,” “bitch,” and “dyke.” Pornography is prevalent, and misogynistic rhymes have existed for decades.

Understandably, Department of Defense (DoD) numbers for sexual assaults in the military are far lower than numbers provided by other sources, primarily because the Pentagon only counts rapes that soldiers have officially reported. Even according to the Pentagon, 80 percent of assaults go unreported.

Pentagon spokesperson Cynthia Smith told IPS, “We understand this is very important for everyone to get involved in preventing sexual assault, and are calling on everyone to get involved, step in, and watch each others’ backs.”

According to the DoD Report on Sexual Assault in the Military for Fiscal Year 2007, “There were 2,688 total reports of sexual assault involving Military Service Members,” of which “The Military Services completed a total of 1,955 criminal investigations on reports made during or prior to FY07.”

The criminal investigations yielded the shockingly low number of only 181 courts martial. “We understand that one sex assault is too many in the DoD,” Smith told IPS, “We have an office working on prevention and response.”

A 1995 study published in the Archives of Family Medicine found that 90 percent of female veterans from the 1991 U.S. attack on Iraq and earlier wars had been sexually harassed. A 2003 survey of women veterans from the period encompassing Vietnam and the 1991 Iraq attack, published in the American Journal of Industrial Medicine, found that 30 percent of the women soldiers said they were raped.

In 2004, a study of veterans from Vietnam and all wars since, published in the journal of Military Medicine, found that 71 percent of the women were sexually assaulted or raped while serving.

At the 2006 National Convention of Veterans for Peace in Seattle, April Fitzsimmons, who early in her career was raped by a soldier, met with 45 other female vets, and began compiling information.

“I asked for a show of hands of women veterans who had been assaulted while on duty, and half the women raised their hands,” Fitzsimmons told IPS, “So I knew we had to do something.”

She, along with other women veterans like Guzman, founded the Service Women’s Action Network (SWAN) to help military women who have been victims of sexual violence.

It is an uphill battle for women in the U.S. military to take on the system that clearly represses attempts to change it.

“When victims come forward, they are ostracised, doubted, and isolated from their communities,” Fitzsimmons told IPS, “Many of the perpetrators are officers who use their ranks to coerce women to sleep with them. It’s a closely interwoven community, so the perpetrators are safe within the system and can fearlessly move free amongst their victims.”

Fitzsimmons shared with IPS a view that underscores the gravity of the problem.

“The crisis is so severe that I’m telling women to simply not join the military because it’s completely unsafe and puts them at risk. Until something changes at the top, no woman should join the military.”

****************************************************************************************

Sidebar: Two Testimonies

April Fitzsimmons served in the Air Force from 1985 to 1989, as an intelligence analyst and intelligence briefer for a two-star general. Early in her military career, another solider sexually assaulted her.

Nineteen years old at the time of her rape, Fitzsimmons reported the assault, and named her perpetrator, who was removed from the base. However, she declined the offer of counselling “because there was a stigma attached to it,” she told IPS.

“Those who seek counselling are perceived to be at risk, as being too weak and vulnerable and it would have meant forfeiting my top-secret clearance to keep military intelligence classified,” she explained.

Another reason for maintaining silence on the matter was that Fitzsimmons was declared “airman (sic) of the year,” in the European command.

“I didn’t want to lose that,” she says, “I wanted the whole thing to go away.”

Fitzsimmons created a one-woman play, Need to Know, which has been running for six years. In the play, she addresses her own sexual assault in the military. When news of rapes and sexual assaults by U.S. soldiers in Iraq, against both other soldiers and Iraqis began to surface, Fitzsimmons became more active.

“After reading about the 14-year-old Iraqi girl, Abeer Qasim Hamza, who was raped by several soldiers, and about Suzanne Swift, a soldier who after being raped by another U.S. soldier went AWOL (absent without leave) rather than redeploy with the command that was responsible for allowing the rape to occur, I was convinced that there was a cycle of sexual violence in the military that was neither being seen nor addressed,” she says.

--------------------

It is not difficult to ascertain the reason for so few sexual assaults being reported in the military. Jen Hogg of the New York Army National Guard told IPS, “I helped a woman report a sexual assault while she was in basic training. She was grabbed between the legs from behind while going up stairs. She was not able to pinpoint the person who did it.”

Hogg explained that her friend was afraid to report the incident to her drill sergeant, and went on to explain why, which also sheds light on why so many women opt not to report being sexually assaulted.

“During training, the position of authority the drill sergeant holds makes any and all reporting a daunting task, and most people are scared to even approach him or her,” Hogg told IPS, “In this case, the drill sergeant’s response was swift but caused resentment towards the female that made the report, because her identity was not hidden from males who were punished as a whole for the one.”

The incident displays another tactic used in the military to suppress women’s reportage of being sexually assaulted - that of not respecting their anonymity, which opens them up to further assaults.

“After this incident many of the males said harassing things to her as they passed her during training, so much so that she regretted having addressed the issue,” Hogg continued, “You can be ostracised as the woman who had dared to speak up. Women willing to speak up are trained to shut up, which results in an atmosphere of silence. After my experiences in basic and advanced individual training I never reported an incident again.”

Hogg herself faced verbal sexual harassment.

“When I removed my protective top in the heat I would often hear comments such as ‘where you been hiding them puppies’ in reference to my breasts.”

Based on her friends’ experience, Hogg did not even consider reporting.

To make matters worse, according to Department of Defense statistics, 84-85 percent of soldiers convicted of rape or sexual assault leave the military with honourable discharges. Not only are they not penalised, they are honoured.

hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 05:05 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
I doubt that it would come as much of a surprise to anyone that the prevalence of rape in the US military, whatever the numbers are, is clearly a function of men like George0b1.

"To make matters worse, according to Department of Defense statistics, 84-85 percent of soldiers convicted of rape or sexual assault leave the military with honourable discharges. Not only are they not penalised, they are honoured."


If the military culture has come to the conclusion that American standards for criminalizing aggressive sexuality are whack, and thus refuse to join in, maybe the military is not the problem. The military is not always wrong about what is best for the military and America. In the end the military is always overruled by greater America if the arguments don't promote change, but this is how it should be.

JSYK, the Army has recently come under heavy criticism for deploying to war guys who are in the system for sexual offenses. So far the Army has refused to alter course.
JTT
 
  4  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 05:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
I recall, in my lifetime, that normal human expression included lynching and burning alive, among other things, very normal human beings.

If you had a grasp of the issues, legal or otherwise, it might be a worthwhile issue to discuss. So far, I've seen no evidence of that.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 05:18 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
I recall, in my lifetime, that normal human expression included lynching and burning alive, among other things, very normal human beings.


You lie, both have never been common, they were extraordinary measures.

Quote:
If you had a grasp of the issues, legal or otherwise, it might be a worthwhile issue to discuss. So far, I've seen no evidence of that.


YA, I notice that a lot of a2k'ers are big on making grand excuses for why they cant step up and defend their assertions and beliefs. You are in good company.
JTT
 
  4  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 05:28 pm
Quote:
... only about 8 percent of the cases went to court-martial, reflecting the difficulty female soldiers have in making themselves heard or believed when they report sexual assault within the military.


8 percent go to court-martial ['court martial', now that's as much an oxymoron as military intelligence] ].

Consider just for a moment, the degree of impunity that men in the military feel. Now consider the impunity these "conquerers" feel. Consider just how widespread rape could have been/could be among the helpless women meeting the invading horde, women whose own culture makes it virtually impossible to report a rape.

Anyone care to do a study on how many Vietnamese women were raped, how many Iraqis women have been raped, Afghan women, ... ?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  3  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 05:32 pm
@hawkeye10,
It's not an excuse, Hawkeye. Why would I consider wasting my time with someone who has such a poor understanding of the issues?

Why would I waste my time with someone who finds in this,

"I recall, in my lifetime, that normal human expression included lynching and burning alive, among other things, very normal human beings.",

a measure of frequency?

Actually, this thread is about the issue of rape in the US military.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 06:00 pm
@georgeob1,
Bla, bla, bla... but not one single answer. Not one shred of evidence of your own (I did post some, you ignored it.) Your attack on my person does nothing to retract your despicable rapist's apology. Substantiate your utter bullshit about rape charges for "mere stupidity and lack of good manners", retract it, or admit you're a liar. Misogynistic assholes like Shorteyes and BillRM believe this kind of bullshit, George. Demented pieces of **** trivialize heinous behavior in this way. Distinguish yourself or be counted with those assholes from this day forward.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 06:09 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
I bet Bill prays every night besides his bed that the tactics used against the practitioners unpopular sexuality never get used on cyber-bullies.
OCCOM BILL
 
  2  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 06:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I'm sure the Jury was very moved.


Juries don't make law, they are sworn to make judgments according to the law. Unless you want to argue that citizens have a duty to nullify the law by way of refusing to follow the law, you have no point.
Demonstrating your incredible ignorance again. Jury Nullification.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 06:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I bet Bill prays every night besides his bed that the tactics used against the practitioners unpopular sexuality never get used on cyber-bullies.
Does that even make sense to you? A2K's infamous misogynistic piece of ****, who cowers day and night behind a false persona for fear of righteous retribution. You are truly pathetic.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 06:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
JSYK, the Army has recently come under heavy criticism for deploying to war guys who are in the system for sexual offenses. So far the Army has refused to alter course.


Am I to discern that you are trying to convince me that some measure of morality exists in the minds of military planners?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 30 Jan, 2010 06:44 pm
@JTT,
while I am of the opinion that most military people are highly moral....no. I am offering a bit of information as a public service. I don't know if I agree with what is being done, though I do strongly agree with the tradition in American law that deployed military can not be acted upon legally while they are gone serving the nation.
 

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