Who will win the senatorial election in Massachusetts ?

@okie,

i heard the DNC is gonna appeal to the UN

Well the victory went to Brown, and by a substantial 5% majority. Tomorrow we'll get more detailed analysis about how individual regions and demographic groups went in the voting.

Notwithstanding all the rather tortured rationalizations from Matthews and Madow, this was clearly a result of fairly widespread dissartisfaction with both the candidate and something the current Administration is doing or not doing - very likely including the health care legislation and the often unsavory process of buying off various constituencies in getting it - particularly the blatantly unfair elements like the exemption of unions from the cadillac plan tax and the buyoff for Senator Nelson. It was all so very.....Chicago.

In the next few days we will get the "I told you so" analysis from the various pundits and political faces; together with an early taste for the prevailing reactions among other Democrats in the Congress.

I believe health care legislation is dead with respect to the current Congress. The Republicans aren't likely to do anything until after the next Congressional elections, which they anticipate will leave them with a stronger hand - how much so is impossible to detect at this fairly early stage.

There wil be much speculation about profound and fundamental dissatisfaction with the current administration among a large segment of the population. I believe there is a lot of this, however, I don't know or have an opinion about how deep it may be or how long-lasting it will prove to be. We won't really know that until the forthcoming Congressional elections.

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@JPB,

Kidding aside, I think the defining moment for her was Brown's respectful rebuke to that reporter............."It's the PEOPLE'S seat".

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@maporsche,

Maporsche wrote:

and some are, like electronic medical records, and pre-existing condition coverage

If some of the Republican ideas you like are in the bill, why are you complaining that Democrats aren't incorporating good Republican ideas?

maporsche wrote:

Which one's don't you like?

Voluntary purchasing pools: Give individuals and small businesses the opportunities that large businesses and the government have to seek lower insurance costs. "

No idea what that means. By default, I oppose buzzword-heavy policy proposals I don't understand.
Portability: As people change jobs or move across state lines, they change insurance plans. By allowing consumers to "own" their policies, insurers would have incentive to make more investments in prevention and in managing chronic conditions. "

Fine in principle; Two problems though: (1) the devil is in the fine print, and Senate Republicans are likely to oppose effective fine print. That's a problem because, without it, competition across state lines will lead to a race to the bottom: Some state will do to health insurance what Delaware did to corporate law and Nevada did to marriage law. (2) Hypocrisy. The Federal plan would have provided portability. If it's such a great thing, why prevent consumers to opt for the Federal option?
Lawsuit reform

Does nothing to decrease insurance costs. It only redistributes it from doctors to malpractice victims.
Tax Free Health Savings Accounts

Just another tax shelter for rich people. Most uninsured people are in the lower income tax brackets, so tax credits wouldn't do much for them. How about flat-out subsidies? Oh, right, they lead to big governments.
Reward healthy lifestyle choices:

Sounds good in theory, but conflicts in practice with his earlier proposals not to punish preexisting conditions.
Refundable tax credits (for the uninsured and those who would benefit from greater flexibility of coverage)

Yet another tax shelter for rich people. How about subsidies instead? Oh, I forgot. Big government. Yeah right.

So, I've given you my reasoning, and now I'd like to see yours: Why do you like all of Jindahl's proposals?

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Now we know who won: BROWN!

This is huge in so many ways.

Are the Dems going to now further destroy their future by playing obvious political games in an attempt to negate the impact of this election?

I hope, for their sakes, that Dems feel Obamacare is worth losing their jobs over.

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Bedtime for Johnboy. Thank yall for an enjoyable evening watching this contest together. It did not, for the most part, degenerate into a bunch of cuts and pastes and one line put downs.
This election is obviously a setback for President Obama.
I suspect, though, that there are some Dems up for election in November who might be secretly happy. The contentious issue of health care may, like it has been so many times in the past, get punted away.
Perhaps not though, if the House and Senate can agree on something that only requires 51 Senators to agree. I think I heard that.
Good night, all.

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Maporsche, among other people in this thread, wrote:

Of course they are sending a message.

I agree they do, but how is that a defense against the charge that the majority of Massachusetts voters are deluded? Would it be the first time in America that "We, the People" have sent a dumb, deluded message?

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@Irishk,

I agree. The reporter in question was David Gergin - truly a man for all seasons whose long-term style and strategy is to kiss whatever ass appears to be in power. It was a defining moment, and Gergin asked the question, referring to "Teddy Kennedy's seat" with almost reverential diction, in his most arrogant (to the candidate) and obsequious (to those whom he perceived to have the power) manner. It was a wonderful moment !

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@Irishk,

That works for me. And, it's not the American PEOPLE'S seat, it the people of Massachusetts seat to fill with whomever they think best represents their interests and needs at this time. Party loyalists who insist that anyone voting outside they're favorite ballot box is delusional piss me off.

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@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

i heard the DNC is gonna appeal to the UN

Good one. Actually, I would not be all that surprised. After all, we are supposedly subject now to the World Court, and the U.N. is wanting to tax us here, so they must think they have some authority.

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Quote:

Issues

Why I'm Running...
America is a great country but we also have some challenges that we need to solve if we're going to remain the world's superpower. The most important of our challenges is getting the U.S. economy moving again. People are hurting as they struggle to make ends meet. They're worried about their future, and that of their children and grandchildren. I want to ensure that we leave them an America that is financially stronger and independent: minus a national debt that we can never repay.

Health Care
I believe that all Americans deserve health care coverage, but I am opposed to the health care legislation that is under consideration in Congress and will vote against it. It will raise taxes, increase government spending and lower the quality of care, especially for elders on Medicare. I support strengthening the existing private market system with policies that will drive down costs and make it easier for people to purchase affordable insurance. In Massachusetts, I support the 2006 healthcare law that was successful in expanding coverage, but I also recognize that the state must now turn its attention to controlling costs.

Economy
I am a free enterprise advocate who believes that lower taxes can encourage economic growth. Raising taxes stifles growth, weakens the economy and puts more people out of work. Our economy works best when individuals have more of their income to spend, and businesses have money to invest and add jobs. I have been a fiscal watchdog in the state legislature fighting bigger government, higher taxes and wasteful spending.

Energy and Environment
I support common-sense environment policy that will help to reduce pollution and preserve our precious open spaces. I realize that without action now, future generations will be left to clean up the mess we leave. In order to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, I support reasonable and appropriate development of alternative energy sources such as wind, solar, nuclear, geothermal and improved hydroelectric facilities. I oppose a national cap and trade program because of the higher costs that families and businesses would incur.

Education
I am passionate about improving the quality of our public schools. Accountability and high standards are paramount. I support choice through charter schools, as well as the MCAS exam as a graduation requirement. I have worked to ensure that all children have access to a quality education. I am a strong advocate for the METCO program, which provides lower income students with broader educational opportunities.

Immigration
I recognize that our strength as a nation is built on the immigrant experience in America. I welcome legal immigration to this country. However, we are also a nation of laws and government should not adopt policies that encourage illegal immigration. Providing driver’s licenses and in-state tuition to illegal immigrant families will act as a magnet in drawing more people here in violation of the law and it will impose new costs on taxpayers. I oppose amnesty, and I believe we ought to strengthen our border enforcement and institute an employment verification system with penalties for companies that hire illegal immigrants.

Veterans
As a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army National Guard, I am uniquely aware of the importance and sacrifice of our men and women serving in the military. I have been a vigorous supporter of legislation providing benefits to returning service members, as well as, benefits for the families of those killed in action. I believe we need to recognize the sacrifice of all of our servicemembers by keeping better track of returning military personnel so they get the services they deserve. That includes providing them with first-class medical care and other benefits to which they are entitled. I am known as a leader on veterans' issues through my work on the Veterans and Federal Affairs Committee, the Hidden Wounds of War Commission, and the Governor's Task Force on Returning Veterans.

Gun issues
I support the Second Amendment and believe that citizens have the right to keep and bear arms as a basic constitutional liberty. I support safe and responsible gun ownership.

Death penalty
I believe there are some crimes that are so heinous that they deserve capital punishment. Our Government should have the ability to impose the death penalty in cases where it is justified.

Abortion
While this decision should ultimately be made by the woman in consultation with her doctor, I believe we need to reduce the number of abortions in America. I believe government has the responsibility to regulate in this area and I support parental consent and notification requirements and I oppose partial birth abortion. I also believe there are people of good will on both sides of the issue and we ought to work together to support and promote adoption as an alternative to abortion.

Marriage
I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. States should be free to make their own laws in this area, so long as they reflect the people's will as expressed through them directly, or as expressed through their elected representatives.

Israel
Israel has made enormous sacrifices in an attempt to secure peace " including unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. I support a two-state solution that reaffirms Israel’s right to exist and provides the Palestinians with a place of their own where both sides can live in peace and security. As our closest ally in the Middle East, Israel lives every day under the threat of terror yet shares with America a dedication to democratic ideals, a respect for faith, and a commitment to peace in the region. Until a lasting peace is achieved, I support the security barrier erected by Israel which has proven successful in protecting Israeli civilians from terrorist attacks.

Iran
I support the bi-partisan Iran sanctions bill and believe that until Ahmadinejad gives up his nuclear ambitions he should be isolated from the rest of the world. With its reckless pursuit of nuclear weapons, Iran represents the biggest threat to Israel. Ahmadinejad is a Holocaust denier who has threatened to wipe Israel off the map. Meeting with him confers legitimacy when the only correct response is to treat him as an outcast. A personal meeting with Ahmadinejad, as suggested by my opponent, would embolden him and be used as a propaganda tool to strengthen his position.

I think the only one I strongly disagree with is his position on capital punishment. I'm on the fence about the impact on meeting with Ahmadinejad

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@Thomas,

Any port in a storm Thomas?

When the people voted for Obama they were inspired visionaries; when they voted for Brown they were dumb.

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News Flash... Health care is not going away.

The Democrats simply must pass health care to have any chance of avoiding disaster in November. There is no other choice for them-- and they realize this.

You are going to see something happen. It may be reconciliation. It may be ping pong (just having the House pass the current Senate bill as is). It might be a combination of the two... ping pong with a strong commitment for reconciliation to fix it in the Spring.

But not passing health care is a recipe for electoral disaster for the Democrats. You are not going to see this happen.

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@JPB,

To paraphrase from his victory speech just now ... on the issue of terrorists: "Our tax dollars should go towards weapons to fight them, not lawyers to defend them."

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@Ticomaya,

That sounds like a soundbite. I'd rather they didn't go towards either.

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@JPB,

Quote:

Issues

Economy
I am a free enterprise advocate who believes that lower taxes can encourage economic growth. Raising taxes stifles growth, weakens the economy and puts more people out of work. Our economy works best when individuals have more of their income to spend, and businesses have money to invest and add jobs. I have been a fiscal watchdog in the state legislature fighting bigger government, higher taxes and wasteful spending.

Sounds like he should go to Washington right away and teach Obama a few things as quickly as possible. In other words, convince Obama that Marxism does not work. Insulting businesses does not work. Encouraging businesses and free enterprise does work. Big government is a failure, please somebody tell Obama that, because apparently he never listened in school or went to the wrong ones.

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@Ticomaya,

Funny, who paid for the Shoebomber's lawyers?

The GOP keeps depending on American's short attention span and we, Democrats, god love us, keep letting them get away with it.

Joe(I guess it was okie-dokey to provide the Al-Queda trained Richard Reid, but not for anyone else?)Nation

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

News Flash... Health care is not going away.

The Democrats simply must pass health care to have any chance of avoiding disaster in November. There is no other choice for them-- and they realize this.

You are going to see something happen. It may be reconciliation. It may be ping pong (just having the House pass the current Senate bill as is). It might be a combination of the two... ping pong with a strong commitment for reconciliation to fix it in the Spring.

But not passing health care is a recipe for electoral disaster for the Democrats. You are not going to see this happen.

You've got to be kidding ! THAT would surely set the stage for a real electoral disaster for Democrats in November and a one term presidency for Obama.

You sound a bit like Rachel Madow, struggling to hide your head in apile of your own absurd rationalizations.

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@JPB,

JPB wrote:

That sounds like a soundbite. I'd rather they didn't go towards either.

You don't want to fight terrorists? You must be a Democrat?

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@ebrown p,

Unfortunately, I agree with your initial assertion.

The Dems seem to have adopted a suicidal devotion to Obamacare.

If they let it go, they might be able to salvage, to some extent, the off year elections.

If on the other hand they ram it down our throats by any means possible, they will be swept from power.

It is a leftist canard that the Dems have to stick with Obamacare. Brown's victory proves it is.

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Who will win the senatorial election in Massachusetts ?

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