Who will win the senatorial election in Massachusetts ?

@okie,

Okie said to Georgeob1.....

Quote:

Get a life, George.

Okie you really are a hoot.
but this comment from Okie really takes the cake...

Quote:

Now, George, I respect your opinions, but frankly use common sense, okay?

0 Replies

@parados,

parados wrote:

If that was the case okie, why did you use total immigrants and not just illegals in your numbers about the uninsured?

I didn't, you just made it up that I did. I don't know how many illegals are here in the country, and I don't know how many are uninsured, and I doubt anyone does for sure. I think estimates range from 10 to 20 million illegals, and I think most of those are uninsured. The exact number is not so important as the recognition that it is a huge problem and a significant percentage of the people that are uninsured.

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

parados wrote:
If that was the case okie, why did you use total immigrants and not just illegals in your numbers about the uninsured?

I didn't, you just made it up that I did. I don't know how many illegals are here in the country, and I don't know how many are uninsured, and I doubt anyone does for sure. I think estimates range from 10 to 20 million illegals...

Why bother arguing with the orchestra still playing on the Titanic after the ship develops a pronounced list to starboard?! Let that group go down with as much grace as they can muster:

Quote:

...If health-care reform still has a chance of passing in some form, two other big domestic measures seem in greater doubt. One version of a cap-and-trade bill for limiting emissions of greenhouse gases passed the House last year and another is making its way through the Senate. But it is unpopular among voters, especially in the downturn. A mooted immigration reform that would regularise the status of millions who are in America illegally has even less chance of passage.....

http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15324259

1 Reply

I'm loving every bit of the Oddermann, Madcow and Shivers meltdown...LOVIN' IT!!!!

Here Mr. Obama, let me help you read that writing on the wall!

Here's your tea bag....

0 Replies

@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

Why bother arguing with the orchestra still playing on the Titanic after the ship develops a pronounced list to starboard?! Let that group go down with as much grace as they can muster:

Good point. But I am not on the titanic, I am on another ship inviting passengers and the orchestra on the titanic to abandon their lousy ship and get into the lifeboat so that we can pick them up for a safe voyage onward. But they need to dance to a different tune on our ship, do not bring with them the ships captain that thought he should go full speed ahead in waters laden with icebergs. Our ship is piloted by more sane and practical seamen, with better maps and charts to chart a safer course.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

For example, one of the biggest problems of why we have supposedly over 40 million uninsured was the fact that prehaps a third of those are here illegally and are not even citizens of the country.

What is made up in YOUR statement okie?
1. 1/3 of those unisured are not "here illegally"
2. of the 9.6 million or 1/5 of those "not even citizens", there is no way to know how many are here illegally compared to the 18 million legal immigrants.

If you are claiming you didn't mean all 9.6 million non citizens are here illegally then your 1/3 figure is even MORE specious.

Quote:

The exact number is not so important as the recognition that it is a huge problem and a significant percentage of the people that are uninsured.

If you don't know or even care about the number and are willing to be off by perhaps 10 million persons, how can you define the problem accurately to solve it?

Quote:

I think estimates range from 10 to 20 million illegals, and I think most of those are uninsured

Since there are only 9.6 million NON citizens without insurance, doesn't that mean you are claiming EVERY one of those is an illegal if you are claiming most of 20 million are uninsured.

1 Reply

@parados,

So, if our boat has a hole in it and is leaking big time, are we going to sit here and argue about how big the hole is and how much water has leaked into the boat while it is sinking? You are not using sound logic, Parados. Sorry to use the analogy of a boat leaking water to try to get people to understand what is going on here, but it does serve the purpose of illustrating the point here. The point is you fix the problem, instead of arguing about the volume of water taken on so far.

There are lots of estimates in regard to illegal immigrants, and frankly I do not know, nor does anyone know the precise number. Here is what the Heritage Foundation said a couple of years ago, which probably indicates there are at least 12 to 13 million, but more likely more than that, maybe around 20 million:

http://www.heritage.org/research/Immigration/wm1490.cfm

"According to the most widely accepted estimates, there were 11.5 million to 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States in the spring of 2006.[1] Because the number of illegal immigrants has, on average, increased by roughly 500,000 each year, the number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. in 2007 is probably around 12 million to 12.5 million; however, these estimates are uncertain, and the actual number of illegal immigrants may be higher."

Further Parados, we do not know the percentage of illegals without health insurance, but I have seen estimates of close to 10 million. And I think the number could be higher. So to make a long story short, of the 40 some million people estimated without health insurance, at least 15%, probably more like 20 to 25% are here illegally and are not even citizens of the country.

So the assertion that I posted is entirely accurate and appropriate, your objections are therefore nonsensical. If we enforced the laws already on the books and eliminated illegal immigration almost entirely, we would be able to eliminate a huge cause of lack of medical insurance. The problem of the uninsured in this country is multifaceted, there are more than one cause, and the salient point that I am trying to put across to you and others here is that you solve a problem by fixing the causes. Sometimes a problem has more than one cause, as this one does, and you start by fixing some of the most severe causes, and clearly the uninsured non-citizen problem is one of the largest causes in the equation. It is therefore just dumb for Democrats to propose a solution that does not acknowledge the causes correctly, nor does it have any hope of fixing the causes. It would instead create even more and bigger problems, and this I believe is one big reason why the Obama presidency's policies were soundly rejected by the voters in Massachusetts.

0 Replies

Okie: Isn't the first thing to be done to revoke the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, signed by President Reagan in 1986?

Joe(some Christian nation we.)Nation

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

If you would read my posts, you would have realized already that I have always supported emergency or life threatening medical treatment for illegals. This is not what we are talking about. Anybody that works in a modern emergency room these days can tell you they have become much more like a clinic, with scores of people coming in with sore throats and the sniffles. This is one contact point where illegals only add to the already burdened down medical system.

Just a little common sense would help you, Joe.

P.S You should know that there have literally been scores, if not hundreds or even thousands of illegals that have been packed into buses, trucks, and overloaded vans, often with very bad tires on vans only to have crashed to kill and seriously injure not only themselves but other law abiding citizens, also many have suffocated in overheated conditions, and if not for our medical emergency capabilities many more would have died. If we had solved this problem of illegals entering the country as we conservatives propose, many lives would have been saved.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

If you would read my posts, you would have realized already that I have always supported emergency or life threatening medical treatment for illegals. This is not what we are talking about. Anybody that works in a modern emergency room these days can tell you they have become much more like a clinic, with scores of people coming in with sore throats and the sniffles. This is one contact point where illegals only add to the already burdened down medical system.

Just a little common sense would help you, Joe.

Okie, when you have no medical insurance and the price of regular doctor visits are too high for you to afford without it, EVERY problem becomes an emergency, b/c you can't deal with it until it is an emergency. You are blaming the illegals, but wtf are the supposed to do? Just sit there and die?

You wouldn't do that, so don't expect them to, either.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

What are they supposed to have done? Stay home and do not break the law by entering this country illegally. If the conditions are lousy in Mexico or Guatamala or somewhere, then work to fix their own countries, that would be a good start.

But to be accurate, it is as much or more our fault for facilitating illegal behavior as it is their fault for only doing what we encourage.

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

What are they supposed to have done? Stay home and do not break the law by entering this country illegally. If the conditions are lousy in Mexico or Guatamala or somewhere, then work to fix their own countries, that would be a good start.

what are you, some kind of radical?

(insert sarcastic smiley here)

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

What are they supposed to have done? Stay home and do not break the law by entering this country illegally. If the conditions are lousy in Mexico or Guatamala or somewhere, then work to fix their own countries, that would be a good start.

But to be accurate, it is as much or more our fault for facilitating illegal behavior as it is their fault for only doing what we encourage.

Not what are they supposed to have DONE, what are they supposed to do NOW?

You really seem to want them to just sit around and die.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Duh. They should take care of their health, but at the first practicable time they should return home where they have citizenship. If they have life threatening problems, we will take care of them. However, as has been pointed out many many times, they are here illegally, so finding employment and availing themselves of all kinds of things like welfare, social security disability, and so forth, that would be illegal, and so it behoves them to go where they can find legal employment. If people are held accountable for their actions, others will be less likely to follow in their footsteps, this is true with all kinds of things. But as a compassionate country, we will treat those that are truly in life threatening situations. Sore throats and the sniffles, among other things, are not, cyclops.

If we can send an Elian Gonzales back to a ruthless dictator against his will, and the will of his mother that died trying to get here, then we can uphold our nation's immigration laws. This problem is really pretty simple, we just need to face the facts.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Duh. They should take care of their health

That means invading the emergency rooms, which YOU pay for, because you have no other solution for them.

Quote:

but at the first practicable time they should return home where they have citizenship.

Many of these people have no jobs back home. Why would they go somewhere where they will have no money AND no healthcare, when their situation is better here?

Quote:

If they have life threatening problems, we will take care of them. However, as has been pointed out many many times, they are here illegally, so finding employment and availing themselves of all kinds of things like welfare, social security disability, and so forth, that would be illegal, and so it behoves them to go where they can find legal employment.

It would be better for us to just legalize them and start taking their money. Think about it. The impact on the system would be little different from what currently exists (you're already paying for them) but the tax base would increase tremendously.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

It would be better for us to just legalize them and start taking their money. Think about it. The impact on the system would be little different from what currently exists (you're already paying for them) but the tax base would increase tremendously.

Cycloptichorn

doesn't always work, i worked in an industry (agricultural) in canada that was full of illegal and legal workers who worked under the table, many times i encountered folks from other countries who loved taking advantage of the system but hated paying taxes, they would get citizenship, and maybe the father would get a job that was legit, but wives and children would get jobs under the table

one woman, after working under the table for a bout a year, asked to be put on the payroll, honourable you say, no, she just wanted to get enough time in because she was pregnant and wanted to collect her maternity from unemployment, unfortunately she miscalculated and got laid off before she was eligible (seasonal work has unexpected layoffs)

0 Replies

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

....My mother entered the United States as an illegal immigrant - a young child in a poor family escaping the Irish civil war ....

Your mother was never an illegal alien under any law applicable before 1965 >
http://www.npg.org/forum_series/socialexp.html

Quote:

... historians of the legislative background of the 1965 act [....] the reformers had not given much thought to the system they were putting in place, for they "were looking backwards more than forwards."16 Their "main impetus . . . was not practical, but ideological." They were expunging what they took to be a legislative blot on America's internationally-scrutinized record on human rights, more intent on dismantling an inherited system than in the careful design of a substitute...[..........]
...In the new system of 1965, an inherited factor, nationality, still functioned as an element, but no nationalities had a favored position at the outset...

> year in which "European Preference" was removed as a criterion for immigration to the U.S.

Quote:

"The bill that we will sign today," said President Johnson, "is not a revolutionary bill," and "does not affect the lives of millions." What it did, he thought, was essentially moral and symbolic. It ends "the harsh injustice of the national origins quota system" which was "a cruel and enduring wrong."
......Theodore White offered a better interpretation, when, years later and with hindsight, he called the new immigration law a "noble, revolutionary -- and probably the most thoughtless of the many acts of the Great Society."

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

All you are is an apologist for millions that do not intend on or want to play by the rules. The solution is simple. Enforce the laws and make everyone here get here according to the rules, and then play by the rules when they are here. I think you are clearly in the minority of opinion in this country, and you know you are clearly wrong. End of story.

The job we have now is to find politicians that will actually do what they swear to do when they take office, to uphold the constitution and enforce the law. Unfortunately, we have had a generation of politicians that predominantly ignored the law and totally betrayed the duties given to them and the oaths that they swore when they took office. It is a sad day that now the country suffers because they were total failures and frauds.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Nice. The voters in Mass are delusional?

Has it occurred to you, being a blind partisen hack that yur are, that the overwhelming majority of voters in Mass are Independents and they have seen throught the bullshit of the Obama Administration and the Demopcratic controlled Congress?

Enough is enough.

Since Tuesday victory for independent thinkers, the Democratic controlled Congress has folded up shop, stopped their own health care plan(even before Senator Brown is sworn in!) and changed strategy to a more "populist agenda"!

The Democrats do not even have the confidence in their own agenda.

Those who are delisional are actually folks like you, Cyclops.

1 Reply

@woiyo,

Quote:

Nice. The voters in Mass are delusional?

Yup, along with you and anyone else who thinks putting the Republicans back in charge of the country is a good idea, Woiyo. It's plainly obvious that you have failed to learn the lessons of the last several years, and now just want to repeat the same mistakes over and over again - all in the name of greed.

I do like the fact that some of you guys who haven't had the balls to come discuss much stuff over the last year have come crawling back, crowing about how the 'country has changed' b/c of one election. It's pretty amusing.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

Who will win the senatorial election in Massachusetts ?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know