Who will win the senatorial election in Massachusetts ?

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Just heard a news announcement that Democrat Senate Majority leader Reid has announced that no attempt will be made to move healthcare legislation will be made until Senator-elect brown of Massachusetts is seated.

I believe this confirms the death of the current proposed legislation. Even the unlikely reconciliation process requires 60 senatorial votes to move the process forward in the face of numerous senatorial procedural rules.

Well, the House could still pass the already-passed Senate bill with no changes; but that doesn't seem to likely to happen.

Obama doesn't seem willing to take a strong stance on this, which is worrisome.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Good news for now, George. Just maybe we could have some hope that Congress would start over by properly assessing the causes of the uninsured and skyrocketing medical costs? Before any problem can be properly fixed, the problem must first be identified and then the right fixes could have some hope of being identified and used. For example, one of the biggest problems of why we have supposedly over 40 million uninsured was the fact that prehaps a third of those are here illegally and are not even citizens of the country. So as a first step to the medical industry problem, if we actually addressed the problem of way too many illegals here in this country which burden the medical industry severely, that would be a huge step forward. Then we could address the problem of the uninsured that can afford insurance and the people that qualify for medicaid but do not know it or avail themselves of it, that would be another huge step in fixing the problem. Addditionally, we already know we have a monstrous amount of fraud in Medicare and Medicaid, and so those problems should also be addressed.

Instead of rebuilding or buying a brand new lemon of a gas guzzling car that has never been properly tested or engineered properly, with an engine that has never been tested enough to know it would even run, it makes alot more sense to simply fix a pretty good car we already have that may just have a few squeaks and rattles, and perhaps needs a tuneup.

2 Replies

@okie,

Quote:

So as a first step to the medical industry problem, if we actually addressed the problem of way too many illegals here in this country which burden the medical industry severely, that would be a huge step forward.

What does this even mean? Mass deportations? Your own party doesn't support that, nobody supports that.

You give policy recommendations, which is good for discussion, but don't seem to have put in the thought as to how they would actually be accomplished. For example, on one hand, you complain about fraud in Medicare and 'aid, but on the other, you want to add many more people to their rolls. Aren't those going to end up being contradictory?

And what about folks with pre-existing conditions? Are they just screwed under your plan?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@okie,

I see you are properly defining the problem okie..
It's the fault of the illegals. Rolling Eyes

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

So dense, cyclops, you guys are so dense.

Simply enforce existing laws. No mass deportations needed. Penalize employers fro hiring illegals, eliminate safe havens, and do not offer free medical care unless it is life threatening. Illegals would then realize they need to go home where they are citizens. After all, most of us would not dream of being able to go somewhere else and act as if we are citizens deserving of everything available there. This is simple common sense, cyclops, which I guess Democrats do not have now. Unless you wish to invite every human being to live at your house rent free, with all meals provided, then you should not expect the same of any country, including ours, unless you simply don't like the country and have no respect for the law.

Perhaps the election of Scott Brown may mean your way of thinking without any common sense, people are getting fed up with it and are deciding to vote for somebody sensible.

1 Reply

@parados,

It is not their fault altogether, it is our fault, the fault of Congress and public officials for not enforcing the law. We send politicians to Washington to enforce the law and be responsible, and sadly they have totally failed. Actually, the illegal problem is a fourth to a third of the uninsured problem, yes, Parados. Look up the numbers, and find out why hospitals are going broke in border areas.

And it isn't just medical care, you might want to study more about why the entire state of California is broke.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Well, the House could still pass the already-passed Senate bill with no changes; but that doesn't seem to likely to happen.

Obama doesn't seem willing to take a strong stance on this, which is worrisome.
Cycloptichorn

Agreed with respect to the House. In that case it is likely the stridency of the Left Wing of the Democrat party, along with the likely growing timidity of Blue Dog Democrats, that will prevent that outcome.

Knowing when to stop and change direction is not necessarily a defect in a wise leader.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

After all, most of us would not dream of being able to go somewhere else and act as if we are citizens deserving of everything available there.

Your family is Native American, then?

Or did your ancestors leave their country because whatever they would be faced with somewhere else, it would most likely be better than their current situation in the country they came from?

2 Replies

@old europe,

old europe wrote:

okie wrote:
After all, most of us would not dream of being able to go somewhere else and act as if we are citizens deserving of everything available there.

Your family is Native American, then?

Or did your ancestors leave their country because whatever they would be faced with somewhere else, it would most likely be better than their current situation in the country they came from?

0 Replies

@old europe,

How are illegal immigrants handled in Germany, old Europe? I suspect the legal regime and its enforcement is much more vigorous than what occurs here.

I'm no fan of the anti immigration views expressed by okie, and do recognize that we are a nation of immigrants. I'm also aware of European hypocrisy on this matter.

3 Replies

@georgeob1,

George, to set the record straight, I am frankly sick of the opinions expressed here that accuse people of being anti-immigration, when we are solidly in anti-ILLEGAL immigration. I have said many times on this forum that I admire immigrants, such as from Mexico, they work hard and are very thankful for being here, when they come here legally. I have also stated many times that I am in favor of ratcheting upward legal immigration if we need more people to support certain industries, etc.

However, we need to screen out the drug dealers, gangsters, and illegals that do not pay into the system and take advantage of the system. It is not right to overlook this. I know of illegals doing drugs in towns I am familiar with in Oklahoma. It is obvious to people there. Not only to average people, we are not blind, but I also have a relative in law enforcement, and they could tell you plenty. Sure, this is only a smaller segment of illegals, but it is a huge problem.

Now, George, I respect your opinions, but frankly use common sense, okay?

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

I'm no fan of the anti immigration views expressed by okie, and do recognize that we are a nation of immigrants.

Get a life, George. Read my above post, which I have repeated I don't know how many times on this forum.

My own dad was an immigrant into Ellis Island in the 20's, but he did it right, everything, okay, do you have that straight, George, and everyone else here on this forum, do you have that straight? Frankly, it gets tiresome and totally insulting to have to combat the ridiculous accusations of Democrats that demagogue the immigrant issue. Pure demagoguery, thats all it is.

3 Replies

@georgeob1,

I'm not generally denouncing American policy on this issue or arguing that the EU is handling this issue any better.

I'm saying that okie has no idea what he is talking about when he argues that he would never dream of being able to go somewhere else and act as a citizen for the simple reason that he has no idea how he would act under the same circumstances many of those people are coming from.

Interesting photo essay: Life of a Scavenger, about people living on trash dumps in Nicaragua. I'm posting this because I had the chance to talk to a couple of peole living there when I was in Managua. Children are born there. 50% of the population live under the poverty line.

The simple fact of their life is that "hard work" won't get them out of there. Neither does the suggestion for them to stay in their country and work on improving their society.

1 Reply

@okie,

Perhaps YOU should look up the numbers okie..

According to the Census Bureau about 9.6 of the 46 million uninsured are not US citizens.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/49586
The Census Bureau does NOT ask if they are here legally or not. (That is less than 25% so your fourth to third is already an exaggeration.)

Of immigrants, there are 38 million in the US and from 12 to 20 million are here illegally. Census says 12 million. Even if we assume 75% of the uninsured are illegal that still only puts us at 7.2 million illegal uninsured which makes it less than 16% of the uninsured. (I haven't even factored in the immigrants that have become US citizens yet.)

Do you not understand the difference between illegal and legal immigration okie, or do you just not care? Is your rhetoric more important than the facts?

0 Replies

@okie,

Quote:

George, to set the record straight, I am frankly sick of the opinions expressed here that accuse people of being anti-immigration, when we are solidly in anti-ILLEGAL immigration.

RIGHT!!!

If that was the case okie, why did you use total immigrants and not just illegals in your numbers about the uninsured?

1 Reply

@old europe,

I suspect that Nicaragua (and Venezuela) are not environments as favorable to economic ascent through hard work as (say) Panama or Chile.

I don't much like the overused phrase "poverty line". It is used a gread deal in the absence of any meaningful definition or comparative significance.

My mother entered the United States as an illegal immigrant - a young child in a poor family escaping the Irish civil war which entered the U.S. illegally through Canada - then a favored route for many European immigrants.

I do agree the Federal government can and should enforce its laws - even in cities that proclaim themselves as sanctuaries. Illegals who are convicted of crimes should be summarily deported. However none of this should be used as an excuse for hostility towards immigrants in general. The United States - unlike western Europe - is still a vibrant country with a growing population (we even have babies) and a promising economic and demographic future (also unlike western Europe).

3 Replies

@georgeob1,

OE,
I wonder what it is like living in a country with no babies. Can you tell us? How do you procreate over there? Do citizens leap full grown from the head of their father?

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

I'm no fan of the anti immigration views expressed by okie, and do recognize that we are a nation of immigrants.

Get a life, George. Read my above post, which I have repeated I don't know how many times on this forum.

My own dad was an immigrant into Ellis Island in the 20's, but he did it right, everything, okay, do you have that straight, George, and everyone else here on this forum, do you have that straight? Frankly, it gets tiresome and totally insulting to have to combat the ridiculous accusations of Democrats that demagogue the immigrant issue. Pure demagoguery, thats all it is.

Back in those days, we accepted practically anyone who was healthy. Nowadays, unless you want to greatly increase the numbers of legal immigrants we accept - which I doubt - people can't just come to America like your dad did. It's not a comparable situation.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@georgeob1,

Quote:

The United States - unlike western Europe - is still a vibrant country with a growing population (we even have babies) and a promising economic and demographic future (also unlike western Europe).

The growing population and higher fertility rates are most likely a result of American immigration policies - or at least a result of how those policies are being applied in reality. The US Census Bureau projects that non-Hispanic whites will no longer constitute the majority of the population by 2042.

The United States are a vibrant country with a promising demographic future due to immigration, but it's not a promising future that many people deem desirable. If a more restrictive immigration policy would be enacted (or enforced), there would probably not be much of a difference regarding the current demographic outlook between the United States and Europe.

0 Replies

@okie,

Okie said to Georgeob1.....

Quote:

Get a life, George.

Okie you really are a hoot.

0 Replies

Who will win the senatorial election in Massachusetts ?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know