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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

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So, 'desire to win' is a good reason, in your mind, to engage in lying and cheating? Not very sportsmanlike.

We are talking about pro-sport for big money Cyclo.

So that makes it okay? That makes it worse.

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Bombing with drones might be said to be a bit unsporting so let's have less of the vicarage afternoon with the ladies homilies. Two rugby players here have been suspended for eye gouging. There are millions of folding money at stake and a player's career can be ended in the next game. They don't do "after you Madam". If they did there would be no need for referees and umpires.

Funny, we manage to have a tough game without players having to act like they are hurt when they are not. I think, once again, you are describing a weakness of your sport.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

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This is why every pissant country in the world loves it and competes in it. It's not an indication of superiority; it's like a lowest common denominator sport.

Jeeze...... And I thought you were a bleeding heart socialist Cyclo. No doubt you are a polo fan.

It just goes to show that a bit of lateral thinking can expose the true state of mind.

How much of America's sporting talent is lost because kids have no money. Pele and Maradonna played in bare feet at first.

You're a money snob and you just proved it.

And NFL is dirt cheap relative to horse and yacht racing. Way down the social scale.

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Food fight! Food fight!
This is fun.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
This is why every pissant country in the world loves it and competes in it. It's not an indication of superiority; it's like a lowest common denominator sport.

Jeeze...... And I thought you were a bleeding heart socialist Cyclo. No doubt you are a polo fan.

Only water Polo, which I played in high school.

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It just goes to show that a bit of lateral thinking can expose the true state of mind.

How much of America's sporting talent is lost because kids have no money.

None. Schools generally pay for the equipment which is used in Football. Being poor never stopped anyone from achieving in that sport.

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Pele and Maradonna played in bare feet at first.

You're a money snob and you just proved it.

No, I'm not a 'money snob;' I only brought up the price of the game in order to counter your erroneous assertion that Soccer was somehow superior due to it's wide-spread play.

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And NFL is dirt cheap relative to horse and yacht racing. Way down the social scale.

Horse and Yacht racing are not exactly 'team sports,' now are they?

Cycloptichorn

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Lowest common denominator sport is distance running (Go Kenya! Go Ethiopia!).
End of argument.

American football is cheap enough for most big public High Schools in Mexico to have their own team (Go Tigres!). Preppy private high schools have ice hockey teams.
End of another argument.

American football is sellable elsewhere (wasn't Wembley packed in the Patriots-Bucs game?). TV networks love it because there are more commercials than play action.
But it will never attract the (real) football crowds in the world, because it's not fluid enough, not simple enough, not musical enough, not for everyone to play (Messi, the best player in the world, is about 5 feet 6").
(Real) football will never attract Americans as their own brand (or baseball) because it's not easily measurable by statistics. No "midfielder ratio".

Finally, an average professional footballer (not American football) runs about 12,000 meters (about 7.5 miles) per 90 minutes game. Some sprint, some dribbling, some jogging, a lot of plain running, plus jumping, kicking, pushing, sliding, shooting, heading, crossing...

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

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Of course I know the rules of the NFL game prevent it.

Yes I know Tico. But was it deliberate or just an unforseen effect at the time the rules were framed?

I've no idea.

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What I'm suggesting is that the rules of soccer encourage this pretend falling and clutching, and moaning. Surely even you can admit this is a flaw that the NFL does not have.

I don't agree that the rules of our football (I hate the word you use so much I can't bring myself to type it) encourage the tactic.

They probably do encourage it, and they certainly don't discourage it very much. An occasional booking for an obvious dive, notwithstanding.

The word I use so much is the word I was taught to use. You continue to call it a "lift," I'll call it an "elevator." Es la vida.

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The basic flaw of NFL seems to me to be non saleabilty in export markets. There are a number of reasons I could suggest for that.

That's a flaw I can certainly live with.

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And there are genuine injuries. There was one last season that they wouldn't show the replay of because it showed a players shin go L shaped. I myself saw a game where a centre-forward was carried off and we woke up next day to find he had had his leg amputated. Chelsea's goalkeeper plays now in a skull cap as a result of having his head kicked in.

Oh, without a doubt. I've broken my share of bones over the years playing soccer --always on the giving end until recently. I'm on crutches right now because I broke my ankle playing soccer this past summer, and just had surgery for ligament damage from that injury. I absolutely do not question there are real and legitimate serious injuries in soccer.

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Anybody who belittles cricket seriously rather than just for fun doesn't know all that much about pro-sport. Or anything for that matter.

Let's just agree to disagree about that one.

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I'm not disparaging NFL. I enjoyed every game I watched as I marched in triumph to the top of rjb's table of experts. I might even try a Domino pizza soon.

Try a Pabst Blue Ribbon too ... just to complete the experience.

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But acting tough is a bit ativistic if they are actually tough. It sends out messages a bit inappropriate in our feminised PC world I'm inclined to think.

Anyone who questions whether an NFL player is tough just doesn't know much about pro-sport, or anything else for that matter.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

So, in that respect, NFL is more like basketball which even a hungry cat wouldn't watch if mice were playing it.

You'll watch hours of Test Match Cricket -- which competes with golf in terms of excitement level -- but you won't watch a good basketball game?

I'm getting ready to split my next few hours watching the Suns tear apart the Nets, and the KU Jayhawks dismantle Baylor. If you don't enjoy basketball, you can't be a sports fan.

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@fbaezer,

I agree with your entire post, FB.

I play soccer at a fairly high amateur level, so that's my sport. Even at my <ahem> age. Always has been. And I enjoy watching it as well. So I appreciate it very much as a sport, both playing and watching. There are many differences between it and the NFL, and I enjoy watching them both, and I appreciate the differences as well.

With a few weeks of training, I'll be ready to go out and play a 90 minute soccer game. I've no idea how I'd fare playing football, from a stamina standpoint .. because I've never played.

But I guarantee you I wouldn't last 5 minutes playing water polo!

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@Ticomaya,

Wow! Just checked on that, Tico.
In the Big 12 Conference, Baylor (14-2) @ Kansas (16-1).
Updates needed. Go Jayhawks!

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@Seed,

Seed wrote:

Quote:
I don't believe in practicing. Is practicing a lot athleticism. I think not.

I think that is a load of crap. If you want to do anything well it takes practice and repetition. If you think any sports team just goes out there and does what it does without practicing you're a fool. But you watch sports. So you must know that teams practice. Even soccer teams.

Tell me that Spendi is kidding, or if not, why not.

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@realjohnboy,

realjohnboy wrote:

Wow! Just checked on that, Tico.
In the Big 12 Conference, Baylor (14-2) @ Kansas (16-1).
Updates needed. Go Jayhawks!

Was 30-30 at the half. Right now, 'Hawks are up 56-49. Too close.

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@Ticomaya,

Rock chalk ... Jayhawk ... KU wins.

And the Suns will win. All is as it should be tonight.

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@Ticomaya,

#3 Kansas Jayhawks 81 - Baylor Bears 75.
All is right with the world.

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@realjohnboy,

Hey now, you two! I didn't see myself gloating when K-State knocked off #1 Texas on Tuesday. Kill Snob Hill, as we used to say.

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@fbaezer,

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Lowest common denominator sport is distance running (Go Kenya! Go Ethiopia!).
End of argument.

What about darts?

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@ossobuco,

Of course I'm kidding osso. If I wasn't I would be putting the more serious arguments concerning arrested development, business management of bums on seats and equipment marketing, xenophobic social identification, boredom relief, the connection between sport and devout observances, its reversion to barbaric residues , sexual selection which the sports haters thread has discussed and rate busting which is what those who practice a lot are engaged in.

I saw a film recently of two male buffalo or bison in Russia engaged in determining which of them was to win the right to pass its genetic material on into the future. As they battled it out there were three females circling close to them. Everytime these males head butted each other at the end of a long run from opposite directions the tails of the females suddenly stood upright. Obviously such things will not be in the evolution curriculum by which Prof. Barbara Forrest is proposing to give students a more scientific approach.

So when I saw the cheer leaders do their performance after a touchdown I naturally laughed despite it being more dignified than that of the bison which is more than one can say for the line backers.

One does have to admit that a coach with over 300 plays in his repetoire is engaged in a form of chess.

The original "wicket" at cricket was a gate behind which the home village virgins cowered and which was defended by their brothers. The rules were refined to reduce the bloodshed.

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@CowDoc,

CowDoc wrote:

Hey now, you two! I didn't see myself gloating when K-State knocked off #1 Texas on Tuesday. Kill Snob Hill, as we used to say.

Hey, CD ... I was rooting along with you for the Wildcats! That was a great game! They should move up the rankings next week.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
Lowest common denominator sport is distance running (Go Kenya! Go Ethiopia!).
End of argument.

What about darts?

Darts is not a sport. It's an activity for blokes at the pub whilst pounding down pints.

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@Ticomaya,

You must know Tico that TV companies are organised bureaucratically and that each distinct section will fight like rats in a sack over the ownership of rights on which they can demand allocations of money.

On all the major channels darts are within the compass of the sports sections rather than those of social affairs, culture, economic issues etc and I thus submit that darts is defined by general agreement as a sport. And officially recognised as such.

There are a number of NFL players whose physical appearence can justifiably be said to be the result of "pounding pints" and not from sipping health drinks.

Darts is not all that dissimilar from archery or rifle shooting or, indeed, basketball. I'll admit that the cost of the equipment is such as to render it of a low caste in the eyes of at least one supposed socialist on this thread but that is more a psychological matter.

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@spendius,

Quote:

Darts is not all that dissimilar from archery or rifle shooting or, indeed, basketball. I'll admit that the cost of the equipment is such as to render it of a low caste in the eyes of at least one supposed socialist on this thread but that is more a psychological matter.

Darts aren't anywhere near a 'lowest denominator'; you need both the machine-tooled darts themselves, and a cork board to throw them into (or some hand-made simulacrum of the two). Soccer, or as others pointed out, distance running, are far easier for people to play no matter where they are - which of course is what leads to the international adoption of the sport.

You however are completely correct about the 'chess' nature of football. In no other sport does the coach have such control over the plays that are ran and the complexity is tremendous.

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There are a number of NFL players whose physical appearence can justifiably be said to be the result of "pounding pints" and not from sipping health drinks.

I think, once again, that this is a little ignorant. Like most people, you assume that the linemen - the big fellows, many of whom are in fact a little fat - are 'out of shape' or are not athletes. Nothing could be further from the truth. True, these are some big boys we are talking about; but it takes tremendous endurance for gentlemen of that size to play an entire game at top performance, and the days of fat, slow linemen are long gone.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

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