16
   

Lets fight fat people!

 
 
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 02:44 pm
@jespah,
jespah wrote:

Obesity and depression go hand in hand. You eat because you feel unworthy and unlovable. You lay in bed with the covers over your head and mourn the fact that you can't exercise, all while, miraculously, surprise surprise, NOT exercising. You look at yourself in the mirror, or on a scale, and think you're a failure. So you're unlovable and unworthy and so you grab the ice cream and get into bed and think about how no one understands you and how awful it is and oh poor you and look the weather stinks and those grey skies are an omen, they are telling you that you'll never get there, you'll never get it right, and it's all for naught and we're all going to that great vale of tears anyway so why not have another piece of pie? And the world agrees with you, and tells you you're worthless in all sorts of subtle and not so subtle ways. And, God help you, you believe it.


Lots of people feel/felt unloved, unwanted, undervalued, and all the other un's... they didn't all gain weight, though. Some turned to other forms of self-hatred, like smoking, crime, drugs, prostitution, alcholism. And some didn't engage the self-hatred at all. What made them react that way? That's a good question. Why didn't they succumb to the self-hatred motif?

Why should it be up to others to support your self-esteem? It's not their business and not their job. They have their own problems - you just can't see them as well as they can see yours.

As for the world telling you you're worthless, well, most of the world is in the same boat, just a different kind of boat.

Not since about grade 10 have I seen a large person treated derogatorily. I've worked with them (yes, large people are employed everywhere), had dinner with them, and so on. They go to school, they have friends, they take holidays, they have money... I don't see the discrimination. Perhaps it's something else.

You might dismiss my observations since I'm not, nor ever have been, large, but I just don't see the prejudice. Not saying it doesn't exist, but I don't see it.

Perhaps some of it is your sensitivity to it - you may feel it even though it isn't there. Is that possible?

There are all sorts of people out there with worse problems than being overweight and some of those can't do a thing about their problem. Like Shewolf said, it's a choice we make, and when you have a choice, it's up to you. Nobody else is responsible for how you feel about yourself.

I know this sounds harsh and I'm sorry. But I'm really not responsible for how anyone feels except myself.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 02:58 pm
@sozobe,
What you say about portion sizes is true - sometimes. My Snickers seem to get smaller by the day.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 03:03 pm
@High Seas,
I've never been obese but a couple of times, well, maybe three times in my lifetime I've been very overweight while not getting past that "borderline". Each time I've lost the pounds people have treated me differently. When I was heavy, I was just there, nobody interesting, at first glance. I worked in the same studio at one point with two women clothing designers. I had put on weight while I went to school and worked full time and did assignments in the middle of the night, and ate for comfort. Call me donut woman. Once that time passed I got rid of the weight. Suddenly I was interesting to those designers, they listened to my opinions suddenly. That's just a clip from personal experience; I've been through that process, as I said, more than once. There is a certain dismissiveness in the air - which may be changing as americans get fatter. It's true that one's own self esteem can be part of the phenomenon, but it isn't all of it. I didn't act that differently to account for the change of attitudes.

I'll agree hate is a strong word but it is used in different ways sometimes, not always about murder or really vile loathing of others. But the derogation from some about people of heft can be amazing to hear in real life.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 03:46 pm
@ossobuco,
Ms. Cranky will pretend she never said she'd not post links again.

Here's one link, re fat cells and obesity -

re fat cells and obesity

I'm sure I have more posts, including one related to bacterial population, but have more searching to do.
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 03:52 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
Hate is an active emotion leading to violent action like murder and mayhem
nope.
there are several gradations of hate that do not result in bodily harm...
jespah
 
  3  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 04:04 pm
@Region Philbis,
I swore to myself I wasn't going to post to this topic any more.

I know, I know. And I see people are puzzled (although I have no idea how they could be) as to how I could have possibly been mistreated when overweight. It is like osso said, it is an ignoring, a dismissing. And, by the way, after grade 10, I had insults hurled at me for being overweight (RP may remember one from when we were first dating). I have been looked down on, sneered at. I cannot quantify it, and perhaps you feel I am weak and overly sensitive. Such is your prerogative for having such beliefs about me. I am not here to dictate what should be in your head, and I expect you are not here to dictate the same back to me, yes?

But it ain't all in my head. See:
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~jlatner/downloads/pubs/IJO-2008.pdf
www.yaleruddcenter.org/resources/upload/docs/what/bias/Bias-Discrimination-and-Obesity.pdf
Or you can go here and select weight bias: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~jlatner/downloads/pubs/IJO-2008.pdf

As for specifics, I am sorry, but you are not going to get them from me. I am not going to lay out my pain for you, even to make a point. Thank you for respecting that.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 04:05 pm
@Region Philbis,
Perhaps "hate" wasn't the best way for the article to put it. A better expression might have been "contempt", "disdain", "disrespect", or "just plain ignoring you".

It doesn't matter much to the receiving side however. If anything, hate would be easier. With hate, at least you have something to confront and fight back against. What you actually get usually sneaky, intermingled with other stuff, and more complicated to deal with -- whatever name you choose to call it.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 04:23 pm
@roger,
My feet seem to be shrinking. I see less and less of them each day.
0 Replies
 
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 04:33 pm
A very interesting thread, Wolf.

I'd like to mention a couple of things:

People in rural areas, like mine, tend to be more obese than people in cities. (Probably lots of statistics on this.)

In my (rural Florida) area, I do not see discrimination against obese people, maybe because so many of them are obese. I don't know why this is.

I once met a person who recently moved here from California, and he told me he was shocked and horrified at "how fat people are here."

I think television, in particular its advertising, has been under-rated in this thread as a contributor to obesity.

I really do. My husband and I haven't had any television (or wanted it) in 11 years now.

We don't see the doctored, attractive food pictures, so we don't want that sort of food.

Let's consider, for a moment, how much money is made in the US on fat-producing foods.

Yet, even in Nowhere, Florida, folks are always amazed, even horrified, to find we don't have TV. You'd think we'd committed some sort of crime.

I'm still not sure whether SheWolf intended to say "Let's fight fat people!" or "Let's fight fat, people!" in this thread. Perhaps she can tell me.

Cripes, do I sound crabby, here? I don't feel crabby. I feel curious. I've read about the "US Fat Epidemic," and frankly I often feel I miss the point, the cause, the root of the matter.

Let's talk more, OK?
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 04:36 pm
@BorisKitten,
BorisKitten wrote:
I'm still not sure whether SheWolf intended to say "Let's fight fat people!" or "Let's fight fat, people!" in this thread. Perhaps she can tell me.

Nah. I chose to interpet her title as a battle cry for obese-peoples-rights and against body type fascists: "Let's fight, fat people!"
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 04:36 pm
@Thomas,
Disdain, that's a good one. And I personally experienced only the tip of it. Though maybe not just a tip - it was a problem with our marriage. My husband had been a very chubby kid and lost the weight as an early teen and mostly kept it off, though I remember he gained about 35 pounds at one point.. not that much less than I ever did. I met him as a skinny guy and lost him when I was overweight - not all due to that, but little else. I'd call it a mirrored self loathing, and I like the guy after all is said and done. Or maybe mother loathing, as his mother was well rounded and both sons had complex disdain for her, not only re weight.

I've been pleased over the years at a2k to learn of mates who deal well with each other's weight.
0 Replies
 
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 04:40 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

BorisKitten wrote:
I'm still not sure whether SheWolf intended to say "Let's fight fat people!" or "Let's fight fat, people!" in this thread. Perhaps she can tell me.

Nah. I chose to interpet her title as a battle cry for obese-peoples-rights and against body type fascists: "Let's fight, fat people!"

Don't I feel stupid? I never even thought of the comma going there... sigh...

I like it best there, however, between fight and fat.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 04:48 pm
@BorisKitten,
And here's the link about bacteria related to all this -

http://able2know.org/topic/81011-1#post-2210303
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 04:55 pm
@ossobuco,
A direct link to the NYTimes article about fat factors..

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/13/magazine/13obesity.html?pagewanted=1
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2009 07:48 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

I kept looking at this thread and thinking, "why does Shewolf want to hurt fat people?"

Then I realized there must be a missing comma. "Let's fight fat, people!"


Close, but no cigar.

I thought it was a bit condescending to say ( from the writers point of view) that all we have to do is be nice and people wont be over weight. Too many factors for that to be true though we really should stop being assholes to other people for no reason.

if I were to write the title as I say it in my head , it would be more like

Lets FIGHT FAT people... screaming almost! ...as in , this is how we combat the issue instead of doing anything else.. all we have to do is be nice.

0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2009 07:49 am
@DrewDad,
wait..

that IS what you meant eh?

me needs more coffee this AM
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2009 08:41 am
If you really do the numbers, it is more expensive to buy processed food than fresh. McDonalds is not cheap. I often use the example of how McNuggets cost more per pound than organic chicken in the grocery store. Frozen pizzas cost 3x what a homemade pizza would cost. Canned soup can cost 5x more than the same soup made from scratch. I can make a loaf of organic, whole grain bread for about 75 cents. But as Boomer pointed out, time is a huge part of the issue and the problem. People do not know how to cook healthy, fast meals If parents are working all day it's hard to come home and put together a decent meal from combined ingredients unless they have been educated on how to do it. It's easy to throw a bag of french fries at the kids because tired mom knows they will eat it without a fight. It's also a cultural problem. Americans have been brainwashed into believing that corporations know best and they are in business for the good of their customers. It's only been the last few years that people have started to see that all these companies care about is their bottom lines and their stock holders. Of course, as tax payers, we have been supplementing the worst of corporate foods for years (watch the films "King Korn" or "Food Inc"). Why don't those idiot Teabaggers get mad about that?

The other elephant (no pun intended) in the room is lack of activity. Take a look at how kids spend their time - TV, video games, internet etc. I actually heard a mother defend her (overweight) son's daily 6 hours a day usage of x-box games by saying it promotes hand and eye coordination. When he's not pressing the buttons for Guitar Hero he's throwing Cheetos into his mouth, but this is her idea of acceptable entertainment. They need to attach treadmills to video games so the kids have to run to make them work.

There is a movement to go back to slower food prep and better quality, but the majority of people are always going to buy the 500 calorie muffins and 1000 calorie burgers because they are easy and taste good to us fat and sugar craving primates. I do like the new law (in my state anyway) that requires calories be printed next to entrees in fast food and chain restaurants. The other day I skipped my usual turkey panini (1200 calories) in favor of the regular turkey/swiss/cranberry mustard sandwich (520 calories) because of the knowledge. Maybe we can start with such basics to help people make better choices.

DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2009 09:02 am
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:
If you really do the numbers, it is more expensive to buy processed food than fresh. McDonalds is not cheap. I often use the example of how McNuggets cost more per pound than organic chicken in the grocery store. Frozen pizzas cost 3x what a homemade pizza would cost. Canned soup can cost 5x more than the same soup made from scratch. I can make a loaf of organic, whole grain bread for about 75 cents.

The problem with your economics is that you're counting your labor as free. Your labor isn't free, even though it doesn't cost you any money.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2009 09:07 am
@roger,
roger wrote:
What you say about portion sizes is true - sometimes. My Snickers seem to get smaller by the day.

Put it on a smaller plate; it'll seem bigger.

Seriously.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2009 09:37 am
@Green Witch,
Quote:
I do like the new law (in my state anyway) that requires calories be printed next to entrees in fast food and chain restaurants. The other day I skipped my usual turkey panini (1200 calories) in favor of the regular turkey/swiss/cranberry mustard sandwich (520 calories) because of the knowledge. Maybe we can start with such basics to help people make better choices.


Here too! The calories are printed next to entrees and Starbucks had a rude
awakening with their products who aren't simply "coffee" any longer. That
latte whatever can come to 1000 Calories alone, never mind the scone.

0 Replies
 
 

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