Another reason why I'm against capital punishment

BillRM wrote:

you and others had a duty to be more honest and straight forward on this issue not hid behind your "great" concern of innocent men being executed.

I beg you to not amalgamate every anti-death penalty supporter together.

You have seen that not everyone justifies his stance on the same premises.

I strongly support the abolition of death penalty on the same grounds as, in other times, some supported the abolition of slavery.

On ethical grounds.

On advancement of societies.

On the advancement of humankind. As a species. Even apes do not kill for revenge.

3 Replies

@edgarblythe,

Oh once more you would not support executing anyone under any conditions correct even Ben Laden or if we had a time machine Hitler?

To you it does not in fact matter if a man is a killer or not.

That issue you been trying to sell on this thread is not a made or break issue to you and you are just trying to sell this risk of perhaps executing the wrong person as a mean to end capital punishment not as a driver for your reason of opposing such punishment.

2 Replies

@edgarblythe,

So you are for executing people who we have zero questions about?

If I could grant you the power, you would sign the death warrant for Ben Laden or a Ted Bundy type killer where it would take a few truckloads to bring all the evidences into court?

Your only problem is that we used it too widely?

As I had stated I had no problem with tightening up where and when we used this form of punishment and would limit it to child killers, mass murderers or special cases as in killing a prison guard by a lifer.

However I see no reason why we should stop the punishment completely as there are cases where the only correct punishment is death.

1 Reply

@Francis,

Francis when human kind advance to the point it no longer produce mass killers or someone who could bury a child in the ground alive I wil lgo along with you.

0 Replies

@BillRM,

It matters to me that justice be dispensed evenly.

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

These guys that shed crocodile tears for the victims and families of victims,
while airily dismissing innocent people occasionally getting executed are hypocrites.
They have no feelings for the families of these innocents wrongly snuffed.

U r more insightful than usual in your post today, Ed. KUDOs.
I gave u a green thums up.
Seldom do I feel actual emotion in these circumstances,
but I do believe that justice and fairness are on the side
of avenging the victim (on the CORRECT perpetrator).

edgarblythe wrote:

Their remedy to assuage the pain of other victims' families is to kill the perpetrator.

Yes; very true, Ed. Those who were most dear to me r no longer exposed to any danger,
but if thay had ever fallen victim to predatory violence: vengeance, either directly (Mr. T style)
or indirectly, thru the state, woud have been very much on my mind.

For the perp to have gotten away with it woud have multiplied the horror of it.

edgarblythe wrote:

In this instance, the perpetrator is a courtroom of prosecuters,
a judge and a jury. By applying the death-penalty-lovers' criteria,
we need to be executing these courts, if for no other reason than
to show we care about victims' rights. Or does one victim deserve healing and not the other?

Your points are superbly taken, Ed; well reasoned and astute.
Suppose that someone 's innocent mom or his innocent child fell victim
to the judge and prosecutor ex officio.
Presumably, he 'd feel that vengeance must be served; honor must be served.

There have been instances wherein the survivor of the victim
believed that the value of vengeance exceeded all else in the future of his or her own life
and killed the bad guy in front of everyone. I saw that happen on (non-fiction) TV
when the mom of a sexually abused child
killed the perpetrator as he sat laffing on the witness stand.

She judged that doing so was worth the consequences to her.

David

0 Replies

@BillRM,

I have no sympathy for an executed maniac. But I support evenhanded sentencing, meaning the death penalty is not possible.

2 Replies

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

When I was younger, I passionately supported the death penalty. I looked on anti death penalty groups as sky-eyed idiots. But, years of noticing courts acting in a predjudicial manner, leaving out evidence that could free the accused, even manufacturing evidence - Then we have in Houston, the DNA lab screwed up thousands of cases. Then, as we sort through that, the fingerprint department is guilty of the same failure. Far too many cases of innocent people getting the shaft. Plus, the rich ones getting off on the same evidence that might have convicted a poor person. I stand 100% against the death penalty and I accuse the system of being corrupt.

This statement, impugning the efficacy of the justice system as a whole, implies that all defendants shoud win all cases,
not only matters of capital punishment. A $100 fine or ten minutes in jail is unjust if the defendant is innocent.

David

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

But I support evenhanded sentencing, meaning the death penalty is not possible.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not see that at all as if we limited it to mass murderers and child killers and a few special cases why would it be uneven and in what manner?

Ted Bundy was not poor or black and most serial killers are not poor or blacks if that is your concern?

The last mass murderer in the news was a Army major and a doctor even if his family had a middle Eastern background.

The DC sniper was the only person that come to mind as being part of the poor/black classification.

Child killers came from all races and backgrounds and I do not see many jury members caring about the race of someone who would bury a child alive.

Yes it is somewhat unevenly apply now but why fight to do away with a punishment when the majority is more likely to grant you a hearing on tightening up on when we apply this level of punishment then in doing away with it completely?

As I stated some crimes cry out for death as a punishment.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

What it implies to you is not what it implies to me. Maybe the problems can be corrected. Maybe not.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

If the death penalty cannot be applied to some, it cannot be applied to others. After all, when an innocent person gets convicted, we just "know" he is guilty.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

These guys that shed crocodile tears for the victims and families of victims, while airily dismissing innocent people occasionally getting executed are hypocrites. They have no feelings for the families of these innocents wrongly snuffed. Their remedy to assuage the pain of other victims' families is to kill the perpetrator. In this instance, the perpetrator is a courtroom of prosecuters, a judge and a jury. By applying the death-penalty-lovers' criteria, we need to be executing these courts, if for no other reason than to show we care about victims' rights. Or does one victim deserve healing and not the other?

These guys that shed crocodile tears for the murderers, while airily dismissing the rights of innocent people are hypocrites. They have no feelings for the families of these innocents wrongly snuffed. Their remedy to assuage the pain of other victims' families is to preserve the life of the perpetrator. In this instance, the perpetrator is found guilty by a courtroom of prosecuters, a judge and a jury. By applying the death-penalty-haters' criteria, we need to be not imprisoning anyone in case we bet it wrong, if for no other reason than to show we care about murderers' rights. Or does one criminal deserve gaol and not the other?

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

I can only hope you someday get some firsthand information about how this can happen, since that is all that can touch you.

You dont know what touches William. It seems you are touched by the murderers plight but not the victims.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

It is supposed to take solid proof to convict.

So is it you dont care about the justice system getting it wrong, just murderers being killed ?

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

In other words, you want them to die on technicalities, regardless of the truth in the matter.

In other words, you want them to live on technicalities, regardless of the truth in the matter.

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

What it implies to you is not what it implies to me.
Maybe the problems can be corrected. Maybe not.

OK, look: suppose that u get subpoenaed for jury duty
on a non-capital punishment case. Having the opinion that u posted
of the operational competence of the judicial system,
u cannot logically find against anyone, because of the reasons
that u posted.

The defendant 'd be better off if thay flipped a coin
because at least that way, he 'd have a 50-50 shot.

Do u disagree with that ?

David

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

When I was younger, I passionately supported the death penalty. I looked on anti death penalty groups as sky-eyed idiots. But, years of noticing courts acting in a predjudicial manner, leaving out evidence that could free the accused, even manufacturing evidence - Then we have in Houston, the DNA lab screwed up thousands of cases. Then, as we sort through that, the fingerprint department is guilty of the same failure. Far too many cases of innocent people getting the shaft. Plus, the rich ones getting off on the same evidence that might have convicted a poor person. I stand 100% against the death penalty and I accuse the system of being corrupt.

If you truly believe the courts get it wrong, why dont you do something about that ? Because I dont see life imprisonment under conditions I am not allowed to treat a dog as being better, unless I am so ****-scared of dying it warps my mind.

0 Replies

@djjd62,

Quote:

i don't have a need for "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" justice

It is strange you would quote that because it seems you dont know its true meaning. It was thousands of years ahead of its time because it demanded a punishment to suit the crime FOR EVERYONE, regardless of how rich they were or how poor they were.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

But I support evenhanded sentencing, meaning the death penalty is not possible.

Neither is any sentencing, because if the important cases get it wrong then it seems probable the minor cases would be even more wrong, but who cares ?

0 Replies

@Francis,

Quote:

I strongly support the abolition of death penalty on the same grounds as, in other times, some supported the abolition of slavery.

Oh, please ! You think too highly of yourself if you campare yourself to abolitionists.

Quote:

Even apes do not kill for revenge.

You need to research this before making such statements. They do kill for revenge.

0 Replies

Another reason why I'm against capital punishment

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