Amanda Knox

@oralloy,

Not for the first time, Oralloy, on this thread. It is no help here to have whole populations indicted as evil, on whatever point of view's side - as if, indeed, whole populations had a single point of view. Way too simplistic, and my interest in starting this thread is to hear about the nuances.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

Not for the first time, Oralloy, on this thread. It is no help here to have whole populations indicted as evil, on whatever point of view's side - as if, indeed, whole populations had a single point of view. Way too simplistic, and my interest in starting this thread is to hear about the nuances.

It looks very much to me like the entire population of Italy openly supports putting innocent people in prison, and is even proud of it.

If anyone in Italy objects to this horror, I have yet to hear their voice.

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@oralloy,

All the facts are not known, surely?

The only people who know what happened were those who were there.

We can all speculate as to what may have occured and herein lies the problem. We weren't there.

That's not a distraction from the thread - it's simply a fact. You, nor I, nor seemingly anyone really knows what occured but the "system" such as it is, kicks in. I don't believe in many systems, tho they dictate many aspects of all our lives.

Your hatred towards Italy is very pronounced. I don't quite understand that but then I don't know you at all or reasons you may have other than this thread for believing them to be "evil". That's kinda harsh. The system may..... MAY ... not work, but the Italian people are not evil. IMO - we all have an opinion.

I don't believe in capital purnishment, I do believe in a fair judicial system. Though I don't believe in systems always behaving. I do not know enough this case to form a very strong opinion as there are biased veiws from all sides.

oralloy wrote:

It is entirely unacceptable for Italy to intentionally put innocent people in prison however.

I agree, but I do not understand how you have reached this acceptance of unquestionable innocence without knowing all the facts or seeing all the evidence of the case.

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@oralloy,

I'm not going to go chasing data, but I've read various bits coming from italy about the prosecutor.

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@ossobuco,

Alternately, much of the goodness of Knox seems wishful thinking to me.
Almost reminds me of some italian novels. Or maybe it was a Brit novel about italians..

Evidence? That is bantered back and forth and I've no purview over it, and neither do you.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

[If anyone in Italy objects to this horror, I have yet to hear their voice.

Well, with the press as it is in many countries, you may not get to hear the joe public Italian Voice (they are not evil!) - the press makes it's statements to the public it plays to. Biased often. The info you get, the info other countries get and the info the Italian public get will all be hugely different.

Would be interesting to hear an Italian voice and their perspective, or a few. But again, only the people concerned know what truly happened there. Someone else needs to try and figure out who is accountable, and WE as outsiders here, simply do not have all the information to hand. I would really not wish to be doing their job right now. This was an atrocious crime committed.

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@Izzie,

Izzie wrote:

All the facts are not known, surely?

The facts are actually pretty cut and dry.

There is zero evidence to show that Amanda Knox had anything to do with this.

Italy conducted a trial reminiscent of the Salem witch trials.

Izzie wrote:

The only people who know what happened were those who were there.

That's a fallacy. It is easy to see what happened from the evidence.

I'll admit some question as to whether Guede did this, but there is no question on the fact that Amanda Knox did not do it.

Izzie wrote:

Your hatred towards Italy is very pronounced.

They are doing something horrific beyond belief.

Izzie wrote:

I don't quite understand that but then I don't know you at all or reasons you may have other than this thread for believing them to be "evil". That's kinda harsh.

My only reason is what they are doing to Amanda Knox.

It may be harsh, but it is entirely justified.

Izzie wrote:

The system may..... MAY ... not work, but the Italian people are not evil. IMO - we all have an opinion.

When the Italian people back this atrocity to the hilt (and they do) that means that they are rightly labeled as evil too.

If I saw Italians suggesting that this is wrong and she is innocent, I would not be counting them as evil right now.

Izzie wrote:

I don't believe in capital purnishment, I do believe in a fair judicial system. Though I don't believe in systems always behaving. I do not know enough this case to form a very strong opinion as there are biased veiws from all sides.

I do know enough about it to form a strong opinion.

Izzie wrote:

oralloy wrote:
It is entirely unacceptable for Italy to intentionally put innocent people in prison however.

I agree, but I do not understand how you have reached this acceptance of unquestionable innocence without knowing all the facts or seeing all the evidence of the case.

I do know all the facts. And I am aware of all the evidence in the case.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

May I ask you have unlimited access to all the evidence?

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@Izzie,

The only italian I know on a2k is Raphillon, that I immediately remember, who may or may not have an opinion he wants to express - he lives around Rome. I'll email him, but who knows if I will reach him, if he still keeps the same email, but he may enjoy joining in.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

Alternately, much of the goodness of Knox seems wishful thinking to me.

There's certainly no reason to think she did anything wrong. Unless you object to her smoking pot.

ossobuco wrote:

Evidence? That is bantered back and forth and I've no purview over it, and neither do you.

I claim to be familiar enough with the case to have a very good handle on the evidence.

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@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

oralloy wrote:
High Seas wrote:
Bill's problem is much more severe than that - he can't distinguish fact from fiction. Doubt he can find Italy on the map, let alone a legal opinion on their jurisprudence.

Actually, he just wrote a highly factual commentary at the top of this page.

And Italy has no jurisprudence. They'd have to have a sense of ethics before they could have something like that.

Oralloy - you can't possibly know any Italian or its predecessor, Latin: jurisprudence is one their own words, so they've got to have had such a thing at some point in their history. Like in the Roman Empire.

They certainly don't have any jurisprudence now. They spent the entire trial leaking lies to the media and making sure the jury was exposed to the resulting untrue media reports.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Do you know Amanda? Is this personal to you?

If so, that's your thing. Your postings would seem a little more understandable if you know the girl and had access to evidentiary documentation.

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@Izzie,

I think this means he's read about it. More, I'd be interested in.

I think Oralloy knows the one italian he mentioned earlier.

I've emailed Raphillon, I hope he shows up as he has tended to post thoughtfully before. If he does, he may write comments I don't immediately like. That would be interesting too.

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@OCCOM BILL,

Quote:

The victim had been badly beaten and none of her DNA was transferred to her roommate who assisted in the killing? None in her room, car, or her boyfriend’s things? None of theirs under the victim’s fingernails, or anywhere on the crime scene? Really? The lack of actual evidence stinks and the evident lack of a need of it for conviction stinks even worse.

What I read said that DNA from both the victim and Amanda Knox was found in the drain of the sink in the bathroom where it was obvious the people involved had tried to clean up. There were also footprints in the victim's blood of both Knox and her boyfriend. There was also a knife found that had the victims blood on the blade and Amanda Knox's dna on the handle. This was found at the boyfriend's house.

But apart and aside from all of that, why would a girl sit in the kitchen of her house all night with her boyfriend, after having heard her roommate scream in their bedroom behind a locked door? Because after she changed her story for about the third time and finally admitted that she was at the house and she did hear her roommate scream- it just doesn't logically follow that she'd sit in the kitchen ALL NIGHT LONG after hearing the girl scream, and not break the door down or do something to try to find out what had happened or even to just get into the room so she could sleep in her bed.

That girl lay dead in that room until the next afternoon when another roommate finally asked the cops to break the door down. And Amanda Knox admits she was there that night and heard the girl scream. Yet when the police came, she was ready to let them leave without telling them about that or having them open the locked bedroom door. There's something very, very strange about that.

1 Reply

@Izzie,

Izzie wrote:

oralloy wrote:
[If anyone in Italy objects to this horror, I have yet to hear their voice.

Well, with the press as it is in many countries, you may not get to hear the joe public Italian Voice (they are not evil!) - the press makes it's statements to the public it plays to. Biased often. The info you get, the info other countries get and the info the Italian public get will all be hugely different.

Would be interesting to hear an Italian voice and their perspective, or a few. But again, only the people concerned know what truly happened there. Someone else needs to try and figure out who is accountable, and WE as outsiders here, simply do not have all the information to hand. I would really not wish to be doing their job right now. This was an atrocious crime committed.

I've heard plenty of Italians on other boards. They are delighted at the prospect of holding innocent people in prison, and are outraged that someone would ever dare to say that is wrong.

And we certainly do have access to all the information. If you have any questions I can answer them.

1 Reply

@Izzie,

Izzie wrote:

May I ask you have unlimited access to all the evidence?

Was there supposed to be a "how" in there (to ask how I have access to it)?

The case was pretty heavily reported in the media and in blogs.

It isn't like it is secret information.

1 Reply

@Izzie,

Izzie wrote:

Do you know Amanda? Is this personal to you?

If so, that's your thing. Your postings would seem a little more understandable if you know the girl and had access to evidentiary documentation.

I don't know her.

It is personal only in that I object to seeing a human being treated this way.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

And we certainly do have access to all the information. If you have any questions I can answer them.

Who is we?

The American public. The British have different interpretations. I'm sure other countries have their bias press only to hand.

Do you have press information, or personal information.

Of course, you aren't required to answer that. I just think that an awful lot written in the "press" suits the individual countries systems. Sad as that may be. That's a fact.

Press information is not wholly reliable. Not in my opinion. Neither are the judiciary systems of all countries - hence, each country has their own way of dealing with any criminal behaviour. Too many to say... Most countries disagree with other countries legal systems when "one of their own" is involved.

Sorry, I don't know enough about this case - so enlighten me, if you would, on the established documentary evidence from Italy that prooves 100% innocence for Amanda in this case, if you have the information to hand.

Speaking to angry Italians on a board elsewhere could be destructive to your points of view. Speaking to people here, who are less agressive in attitude about this murder, even though each have their own views and perspectives may be more useful to get your point across and give a greater understanding of where others are coming from. Negating the Italian race and being glad/wishing that "bad" things should happen to the individuals there - whose views you can't possibly know, it's just causing you upset and getting folks backs up.

<g'nite - need to zzzzzz>

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@oralloy,

Right, he has been reading.

So, Oralloy, do you follow blogs or other news against your point of view?

This may force me to look up a few I follow, but I've no idea of their points of view on this since I only check this stuff once in a while.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I think Oralloy knows the one italian he mentioned earlier.

No, just someone I had a brief civil conversation with online. (And I've burnt that bridge already. They don't like me there anymore. :-)

2 Replies

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