20
   

Amanda Knox

 
 
Robert Gentel
 
  8  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 09:56 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
That's because you are evil.


I don't think there is enough evidence to consider her guilty either, but saying that people are evil for believing otherwise is the kind of extraordinary hyperbole that makes most of your interlocutors not take you seriously.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 10:23 am
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:
I don't think there is enough evidence to consider her guilty either,


Actually the evidence has been clear from the beginning that Amanda and Raffaele are completely innocent.



Robert Gentel wrote:
but saying that people are evil for believing otherwise is the kind of extraordinary hyperbole that makes most of your interlocutors not take you seriously.


The person I called evil there has done nothing but post endless sadistic cruelty towards the innocent. Calling him evil seems a fair assessment.


I gotta disagree on the part about alleged reasons for allegedly not taking me seriously.

These people have used endless disingenuous tactics for avoiding the facts and putting forward lies. If they claim to not take me seriously, it is only because they have no argument against the facts I've posted, and they are attacking me in their desperation to obscure the truth.
Robert Gentel
 
  7  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 10:26 am
@oralloy,
I respectfully disagree oralloy, I think the majority of the problem between you and your interlocutors is not one of the content of actual arguments but of tone and invective that so liberally comes with it.
contrex
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 10:45 am
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:
I think the majority of the problem between you and your interlocutors is not one of the content of actual arguments but of tone and invective that so liberally comes with it.


Exactly so. Put in language oralloy will understand, he gets the **** that he does because he posts like a jerk. I was actually wanting Knox to lose her appeal just because I knew it would annoy oralloy! Then it occurred to me that he probably doesn't give a damn aboput her really - he just likes web arguments.

Another reason she ought to stay in jail is because of how God-awful ugly she is. I would rather that the pretty Kercher had survived and Knox had got the kitchen knife in the neck.

Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 10:52 am
@contrex,
I saw a little bit of that and I agree that it doesn't makes much sense on your part to wish Knox ill just because of him. Her guilt by association to him wouldn't be any more reasonable than he is being.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 11:37 am
@oralloy,
All I can tell you is what I read and what I read explained that when first questioned, Amanda Knox said that she was at the house when Meredith was murdered, heard her screams, and then saw an African bar owner running out of the house.

She TOTALLY invented this story. Why would she say she was at the house when she wasn't and then stitch this innocent man up if she had a credible alibi?

This man, falsely accused by Amanda Knox of doing something he couldn't have done, was actually working at the time of the murder and the only reason he's not still in prison is because a Dutch tourist read about him being arrested for the murder and came forward to say that he was talking to him in his bar during the murderer's window of opportunity, so there was no way he could have murdered Meredith Kertcher.

He spent two weeks in prison, falsely accused by Amanda Knox and would still be there most probably because the innocent Miss Knox told a flat-out evil lie about someone she didn't even know.
Why do people do that do you think? It seems most often it's to implicate someone else in something they themselves have done.

She's a lying coward if nothing else and I don't believe a word she says- especially as she tries to protest her innocence as she stitches someone else up for the crime it seems entirely possible and probable she had something to do with - or at least some knowledge of.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 11:49 am
@aidan,
Quote:
the only reason he's not still in prison is because a Dutch tourist read about him being arrested for the murder and came forward to say that he was talking to him in his bar during the murderer's window of opportunity, so there was no way he could have murdered Meredith Kertcher.


Not to imply anything, but one Dutch tourist for the whole time frame - sure musta been a awfully slow night in the bar.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:01 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:
Why would she say she was at the house when she wasn't and then stitch this innocent man up if she had a credible alibi?


Because police were hassling her in a language she was not yet fluent in and were whacking her on the head when she gave an answer they didn't like. It sounds like the police also were looking for a match for the "negroid" hair they found and thought this guy might be the one. (He wasn't.)

People have "confessed" to all kinds of weird things under stressful police interrogation.

(Note, I haven't been following this story closely and I can't vouch for all of the above, but it's the impression I've retained from what I've skimmed. At any rate, it's certainly a possible "why." What I AM certain of is that unprofessional police interrogations -- especially when the police have a foregone conclusion that they're trying to confirm -- can produce balderdash pretty easily.)
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:17 pm
@sozobe,
Or, to play Devil's advocate, maybe she was just willing to do anything and throw anyone under the bus to save herself.

I don't think being willing to lie about details in a murder case necessarily makes her guilty of the murder but she very clearly did it on multiple occasions and even her own claims of police mistreatment are a lot milder than I would consider reasonable duress to justify the outright lies she was willing to tell (and the language barrier doesn't explain it either, she knew who she was implicating and knew that was a lie, in any language).

We'll never know what the truth is, but I suspect that neither of the competing narratives of innocent victim and she-devil are entirely accurate and she was at the very least totally classless in the aftermath of the murder (the police didn't smack her into doing the cartwheels and treating the investigation with undue seriousness for example).
Below viewing threshold (view)
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:19 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:
All I can tell you is what I read and what I read explained that when first questioned, Amanda Knox said that she was at the house when Meredith was murdered, heard her screams, and then saw an African bar owner running out of the house.

She TOTALLY invented this story.


No, the Italian Police invented it and then hit her in the head until she said it.



aidan wrote:
Why would she say she was at the house when she wasn't and then stitch this innocent man up if she had a credible alibi?


Because the Italian Police would not stop hitting her in the head until she did.



aidan wrote:
This man, falsely accused by Amanda Knox of doing something he couldn't have done, was actually working at the time of the murder and the only reason he's not still in prison is because a Dutch tourist read about him being arrested for the murder and came forward to say that he was talking to him in his bar during the murderer's window of opportunity, so there was no way he could have murdered Meredith Kertcher.

He spent two weeks in prison, falsely accused by Amanda Knox and would still be there most probably because the innocent Miss Knox told a flat-out evil lie about someone she didn't even know.


Hardly a lie. That requires intent. Since Amanda did not give her statement voluntarily, there was no such intent. Likewise, it was hardly evil on her part.

Amanda did know him. She worked at his bar.



aidan wrote:
Why do people do that do you think?


Because the Italian Police won't stop hitting them in the head until they do.



aidan wrote:
It seems most often it's to implicate someone else in something they themselves have done.


No, it is because the Italian Police won't stop hitting them in the head until they say it.



aidan wrote:
She's a lying coward if nothing else


Amanda never lied. That would require intent.

Cowardice is a bit of a strong term. How long would you last if the Italian Police were striking you in the head?

Regardless, that she was weak enough that she could not withstand the assault of the Italian Police isn't really a mark against her. It's not like she was a Marine or an Army Ranger or something.



aidan wrote:
and I don't believe a word she says- especially as she tries to protest her innocence as she stitches someone else up for the crime it seems entirely possible and probable she had something to do with - or at least some knowledge of.


The evidence has been clear from the beginning that Amanda and Raffaele were completely uninvolved.
0 Replies
 
eurocelticyankee
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:20 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Bless your manners Robert and your patience but I think you're crazy to be showing this guy any respect, he doesn't warrant it.
When you come out with statements like he does you don't deserve respect.
Statements like this,
Quote:
I propose that every day Amanda spent in prison result in the massacre of 50 Italian children between the ages of 2 and 5.
Two days of Amanda's life are easily worth the lives of 100 Italian children.
Plus, the slaughter would give the US Air Force some good practice.

Then if anybody dares disagree with him he hurls vitriolic abuse at them.
I'm sorry Robert I'm all for diplomacy and tact but this guy deserves no respect.
JTT
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:26 pm
@eurocelticyankee,
Quote:
I propose that every day Amanda spent in prison result in the massacre of 50 Italian children between the ages of 2 and 5.
Two days of Amanda's life are easily worth the lives of 100 Italian children.
Plus, the slaughter would give the US Air Force some good practice.


He's just a product of his environment. This sort of thing doesn't bother most Americans in the least. They've grown up on it, watched it on TV - it's as American as apple pie.
eurocelticyankee
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:32 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
This sort of thing doesn't bother most Americans in the least. They've grown up on it, watched it on TV - it's as American as apple pie.

What a broad sweeping statement that's almost as crazy as something Oralboy would say.

Oralboys statement would bother any right minded person and I'm sure the vast majority of Americans would be disgusted at such a statement.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:32 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Not to imply anything, but one Dutch tourist for the whole time frame - sure musta been a awfully slow night in the bar.


He was the witness who was remembered and then tracked down, not necessarily the only one there.

Regardless, yes, it was a very slow night. Lumumba had texted Amanda that there was no need for her to come into work because it was so slow.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:35 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:
Or, to play Devil's advocate, maybe she was just willing to do anything and throw anyone under the bus to save herself.


Except she immediately gave a written statement saying she did not know it to be true, and had said it under pressure from police officers who had struck her in the head.

And the police refuse to let anyone hear the recording of the interrogation.

And unlike Amanda, the Italian Police have never once told the truth. How exactly does their claim that they only went after Lumumba "because Amanda manipulated them" square with them going after him after she gave a written retraction?



Robert Gentel wrote:
I don't think being willing to lie about details in a murder case necessarily makes her guilty of the murder but she very clearly did it on multiple occasions


Name one occasion where she said something untrue other than the interrogation where they were hitting her in the head.



Robert Gentel wrote:
and even her own claims of police mistreatment are a lot milder than I would consider reasonable duress to justify the outright lies she was willing to tell (and the language barrier doesn't explain it either, she knew who she was implicating and knew that was a lie, in any language).


Involuntary statements are not a lie.

And striking a witness in the head is striking a witness in the head. The witness is not to blame for statements the police beat out of them.



Robert Gentel wrote:
We'll never know what the truth is, but I suspect that neither of the competing narratives of innocent victim and she-devil are entirely accurate


No, the evidence has clearly backed the innocent victim narrative from the start. We do know what the truth is. Look at the evidence.



Robert Gentel wrote:
and she was at the very least totally classless in the aftermath of the murder (the police didn't smack her into doing the cartwheels and treating the investigation with undue seriousness for example).


She didn't do cartwheels. And she didn't treat the investigation cavalierly. Nor did she do anything classless.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:38 pm
@eurocelticyankee,
Quote:
What a broad sweeping statement that's almost as crazy as something Oralboy would say.


Not at all, ECY. The historical record is pretty damn clear. The US and most certainly the US Air Force has done precisely that , too many times to count and there is little to nothing ever said about it.

Go to the website listed in my response and look at the map of bombing sites. It's obscene. Have you noticed any threads, postings, newspaper, TV, any media really lamenting this horror; this one horror among hundreds of horrors that the US has been involved in?

Got to page 28 of this same thread for links to the same type of horror inflicted upon the people of Korea.

Quote:

Bombs Over Cambodia
New information reveals that Cambodia was bombed far more heavily
during the Vietnam War than previously believed—and that the bombing began
not under Richard Nixon, but under Lyndon Johnson
story by Taylor Owen and Ben Kiernan
mapping by Taylor Owen


In the fall of 2000, twenty-five years after the end of the war in Indochina, Bill Clinton became the first US president since Richard Nixon to
visit Vietnam. While media coverage of the trip was dominated by talk of
some two thousand US soldiers still classified as missing in action,
a
small act of great historical importance went almost unnoticed.


As a humanitarian gesture, Clinton released extensive Air Force data on all American bombings of Indochina between 1964 and 1975. Recorded using a
groundbreaking ibm-designed system, the database provided extensive
information on sorties conducted over Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia.

Clinton’s gift was intended to assist in the search for unexploded ordnance left behind during the carpet bombing of the region. Littering the
countryside, often submerged under farmland, this ordnance remains
a significant humanitarian concern. It has maimed and killed farmers,
and rendered valuable land all but unusable. Development and demining organizations have put the Air Force data to good use over the past
six years, but have done so without noting its full implications, which
turn out to be staggering.

The still-incomplete database (it has several “dark” periods) reveals that
from October 4, 1965, to August 15, 1973, the United States dropped far
more ordnance on Cambodia than was previously believed: 2,756,941
tons’ worth, dropped in 230,516 sorties on 113,716 sites. Just over 10 percent of this bombing was indiscriminate, with 3,580 of the sites listed as
having “unknown” targets and another 8,238 sites having no target listed
at all.

The database also shows that the bombing began four years earlier
than is widely believed—not under Nixon, but under Lyndon Johnson.
The impact of this bombing, the subject of much debate for the past
three decades, is now clearer than ever. Civilian casualties in Cambodia drove an enraged populace into the arms of an insurgency that
had enjoyed relatively little support until the bombing began, setting
in motion the expansion of the Vietnam War deeper into Cambodia, a
coup d’état in 1970, the rapid rise of the Khmer Rouge, and ultimately
the Cambodian genocide.

http://www.yale.edu/cgp/Walrus_CambodiaBombing_OCT06.pdf


Quote:
Oralboys statement would bother any right minded person and I'm sure the vast majority of Americans would be disgusted at such a statement.


I missed the statement. Was there a lot of outrage over it?
eurocelticyankee
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:43 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Was there a lot of outrage over it?


Some, in truth not enough.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:43 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
I missed the statement. Was there a lot of outrage over it?


Fake outrage maybe. People who were casting about looking for a good excuse to justify their callousness and cruelty started saying that I was the reason they are so evil. The logic of the claim didn't really work though, so the furor died down.

It's being brought up again because a couple of the monsters are making a second try at blaming me for their own evilness.
eurocelticyankee
 
  4  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2011 12:49 pm
@Robert Gentel,
oralboy ranted
Quote:
Fake outrage maybe. People who were casting about looking for a good excuse to justify their callousness and cruelty started saying that I was the reason they are so evil. The logic of the claim didn't really work though, so the furor died down.

It's being brought up again because a couple of the monsters are making a second try at blaming me for their own evilness.


I rest my case
0 Replies
 
 

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