20
   

Amanda Knox

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 10:08 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Oralloy wrote:
I am capable of observing facts and processing them.


This is hilarious considering that on page 6 you stated that you got your information from the press and blogs.


In other words, you are unhappy with the facts, but you can't actually argue against reality with any chance of success (reality being reality after all), so you are attempting a rather ridiculous ad hominem against those who purvey the facts.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Sun 26 Dec, 2010 09:52 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Signs of humanity in Italy?

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6908/cover48o.jpg

LINK


More evidence that slivers of humanity exist in Italy: LINK

This time with a translation into English by an Italian American woman who blogs about the case: LINK

Quote:
They call it a trial, but in Perugia it's more like trench warfare, a deep split between two worlds. On one side, the prosecution and that sector of public opinion that believes that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are diabolical, casting Rudy Guede as a bit player in the murder of Meredith Kercher. On the other side, the defense and those who believe the reconstruction of the murder provided by Prosecutors Giuliani Mignini and Manuela Comodi is closer to crime fiction than criminal law. And while the ranks of the innocentisti are growing in numbers and in the courage to speak out, the last place that you'd expect to find one of them is the University of Leeds, where Meredith Kercher studied.

Yet … yet … Michael Krom welcomes us into his office, a professor of chemistry in the Department of Environmental Sciences. He is 60, has a Cambridge degree, has done post-doctoral research at Yale. He studies the effects of pollution on the Mediterranean, is an expert on DNA. For the last six months he's been one of the most active and incisive members of Injustice In Perugia, which has denounced all the prosecution's flaws. He is a little embarrassed at first ("I never thought to find a tape recorder under my nose") and he makes two declarations: "One: I want to make clear that I speak as a citizen and not as a professor of this university."

And the second?
What I want most is justice for Meredith Kercher. Condemning two innocent persons to life only creates a third victim: the memory of Meredith Kercher.

Why do you care so much about this trial?
"Because I teach here. What happened in Perugia was a shock for the students and professors of this university. Shortly after the tragedy, Meredith's friends created a small shrine under a beech tree on this campus. There were candles, photos, notes. The young people would gather there to talk, pray, weep. It was impossible not to see it. Impossible not to be moved, seeing that. And I also have a special attachment to Italy. I love it, I've gone there for work and for sightseeing. I was in Perugia two months before the crime.

You never went to a hearing?
No. I followed the trial with interest from a distance, reading the newspapers. I was surprised that Amanda and Raffaele were waiting in prison for the verdict and that the trial went on so long, but I saw that as part of the Italian judicial system. But then I began to really look into the case and started to feel a kind of discomfort. When I heard about the double conviction, I almost shouted, "This is ridiculous!" My son, who was with me, sort of scolded me: "I thought you were on Meredith's side." That is the point. Indeed, to be on the side of Amanda and Raffaele, does not mean that you are against Meredith.

If they didn't kill Meredith, then who did?
I think there is a lot of evidence against Guede. And it's strong.

And the evidence against Amanda and Raffaele isn't?
Absolutely not. Let's start with Amanda. This is an aberration, as we say in anthropology. The cases of women who participate in murder and rape are very rare. In the United Kingdom, there are been only two in 50 years. The circumstances were very different than those in Perugia: Those women had been subjugated by psychopathic husbands, with childhoods full of violence and deprivation. The evidence against them was overwhelming. Against Knox, what is there? Nothing, zero.

Beh, but she admitted to being in the house on the night of the crime.
She did it during a long interrogation at night and without the assistance of a lawyer. And if it really was conducted, as Amanda says, with a crowd of police officers in a rough manner, then anyone would say things that they would regret later. I wonder: Is there a recording of this interrogation? You can hear it?

And Raffaele?
His position is even more absurd. The "nail" is just a fragment of DNA on a bra clasp. Now we are into my field. And I say: The possibility of contamination on that clasp is enormous. It was found a month and a half after the crime and not in its original place. As with the knife, the alleged murder weapon, the traces are too small to give reliable results upon examination. It is one of the first things I teach my students, when the traces are too low, the examination is over. On the site, we all agree: Rafffaele is collateral damage in a war that does not concern him. And know I've gotten to know him.

In what sense?
We've written to each other for a few months. He's a sweet, sensible boy. At first I noticed a bit of anger in his letters. Because of the injustice, the imprisonment, the way he was portrayed in the newspapers. Now he's serene. I hope that he gets out soon. I want to help him.

How?
I know that he's interested in information technology. He would like to design video games for children. I can spread the word, here and in the United States. Help diminish the three years of imprisonment, to recover freedom and youth. The same for Amanda. Meredith, unfortunately, cannot recover. But if justice is done, then she can at least rest in peace.

Professor Krom made this online comment on the Oggi story:
"While I stand by everything written in this interview, I want to make it clear that I never taught Meredith, because she was in the Italian department and I teach Environmental Science. Also my expertise is in Environmental and Analytical Chemistry, which includes understanding how to analyze DNA samples. "
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  3  
Sun 26 Dec, 2010 10:09 pm
This, in its way, is and has been my thread. I'm the one who started it.

I remain interested.

I appreciate posters not feeding Oralloy.

I don't mind disagreement with me, to whatever extent I had an opinion I was working out, from posters like O'Bill.

I am personally interested in italian law.

I do mind repetitive halucinatory hate screeds, and I wish those who agree with me would just cancel those by silence.

This seems to be true.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Sun 26 Dec, 2010 10:55 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
This, in its way, is and has been my thread. I'm the one who started it.


As if that gave you the right to persecute innocent people without anyone speaking out to defend them?



ossobuco wrote:
I appreciate posters not feeding Oralloy.


That's because you are an evil scumbag who likes to persecute innocent people.

When I point out facts, you try to just bury them and pretend they never existed so you can carry on your horrid demonization of innocent people.



ossobuco wrote:
I do mind repetitive halucinatory hate screeds,


Your dishonest characterization of facts as a "hallucinatory hate screed" doesn't make them any less true.



ossobuco wrote:
and I wish those who agree with me would just cancel those by silence.


Cancel by silence... i.e. avoiding facts by pretending they were never posted.

You evil scumbags are something else. It'll be quite a laugh if Karma ever manages to catch up with you.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Mon 27 Dec, 2010 02:32 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
You evil scumbags are something else. It'll be quite a laugh if Karma ever manages to catch up with you.


In a way, Karma has already started to catch up in one respect. Guede didn't get that second big sentence cut that I was hoping he'd get, but it does look like the witch hunt against Amanda and Raffaele played a big role in Guede getting the first cut in his sentence.

Guede will be eligible for parole in about 5 years now, and will be completely free 9 years from now.

Without the sentence cut, Guede would be looking at parole eligibility starting about 12 years from now, and complete freedom 19½ years from now.

Yay for Karma! Who says bad things don't happen to bad people? No one was more deserving of this blunder than the Kercher monsters. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 27 Dec, 2010 08:45 pm
@oralloy,
As was already noted, ossobuco is trying to support putting innocent people in prison by letting facts go by without comment until they are buried, then making false allegations that people who support justice don't know what they are talking about.

It's time to put a stop to that. I'll be reposting some of the facts that ossobuco wants to stay buried. And reposting them again whenever I judge that they've been buried again.

I'm sure little monster will start to whine because I won't let her get away with burying the truth. T'will be music to my ears though. Very Happy

To begin:

oralloy wrote:
Guede's first known instance of breaking in through a window while carrying a large knife:

Quote:
Perugia resident Christian Tramontano, who will not be testifying in person, made a statement to Perugia police Jan. 1, 2008, two months after Kercher's murder, saying that he had recognized Guede from newspaper photographs as the person who had broken into his house and threatened him with a knife four months earlier.

In the statement to police, Tramontano said he and his girlfriend were awakened by noises in their apartment early on Sept. 1 or 2, 2007. When Tramontano looked down from his loft bed, he saw a young man going through his belongings. Tramontano chased the man downstairs as he tried to escape, but the front door was locked. The thief -- who Tramontano identified as Guede -- first used a chair to keep Tramontano at a distance, and then pulled out a switchblade knife. Guede, who escaped, had stolen a 5 euro bill and three credit cards.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7946289&page=2




Guede's break in through a high window by throwing a large rock through it (exact duplicate of the Kercher murder breakin):

Quote:
A defense witness testified that just two weeks before British exchange student Meredith Kercher was murdered, his law studio was broken into and a computer and cell phone were stolen. The stolen objects were later found in the possession of Rudy Guede, who has already been convicted for his role in Kercher's murder.

Paolo Brocchi, a lawyer whose office is not far from where Kercher was killed, told the court that the thief had entered his office through a window that had been broken with a large rock.

A similar scenario was found in the cottage where Kercher was killed Nov. 1, 2007.

. . . .

Palazzoli discovered they had been broken into Sunday, Oct. 14, 2007, and police later determined that the thief or thieves had entered by climbing up to the window, which is above a terrace, about 12 feet high. Police determined a rock was used with some strength to break through the double glass, and the alarm system was disabled. A computer and a printer were missing.

There was a similar broken window at the scene of Kercher's murder, in the house on via della Pergola in Perugia that Knox and Kercher shared with two Italian girls, When Knox returned to the house on Nov. 2, 2007, the morning after the murder, she noticed that the window in her housemate Filomena Romanelli's room was broken, and there was glass on the floor. Nothing of value was missing from any of the rooms, however. Police later found a large rock in the room.

. . . .

Brocchi explained in court that about two weeks after the theft, Oct. 27, he received a call from the police saying that they had found the stolen computer and a cell phone belonging to him (which he had not realized had gone missing). The objects were found on a person who was picked up by police in Milan, but they did not specify who that person was.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7939101
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7939101&page=2




Guede's breakin where he was arrested while in possession both of a huge knife and of items stolen from the previous (high window) breakin:

Quote:
Nursery school owner Maria del Prato testified in court today, with Knox's and Sollecito's parents looking on, that she had stopped by her school Saturday Oct. 27, when it was closed, and came upon Guede in her office.

"I asked him who he was," she told the court, "and he replied perfectly calmly, even though I had caught him red-handed." Del Prato said he told her he was "a kid from Perugia" who had arrived the night before and had nowhere to sleep.

Del Prato doubted his story, as her locker had been opened, and she said she believed Guede was looking for something to steal. Some small change was missing, and Del Prato noticed Guede had a laptop, but he told her it was his.

When police arrived at the school, they searched Guede's backpack and found a large knife with a 16-inch blade that had been taken from the school kitchen.

Guede was later booked at a Milan police station and accused of theft, receiving stolen goods, and in possession of a weapon. He was also fingerprinted and then released.

It was those fingerprint records that eventually nailed Guede to the scene of Meredith Kercher's murder. His bloody palm print was found on a pillow under Kercher's dead body.

The episode that Maria Del Prato recounted in court Friday followed Friday's testimony by Perugia lawyer Paolo Brocchi, who said a computer and cell phone had been stolen from his law offices in October 2007, weeks before Kercher's murder. The computer from Brocchi's office matched the one Guede had brought to Milan.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7946289
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 27 Dec, 2010 09:34 pm
@oralloy,
Pictures of the room where Guede broke in through the window.

Note: NO BROKEN GLASS ON THE CLOTHES

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1084/nobrokenglassonclothes1.jpg

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8743/nobrokenglassonclothes2.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4223/nobrokenglassonclothes3.jpg

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2844/nobrokenglassonclothes4.jpg

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5142/nobrokenglassonclothes5.jpg
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Mon 27 Dec, 2010 10:03 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Italians admit targeting Amanda and Raffaele for no reason:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20000577-504083.html

Best excerpt:

"The third incident, according to Giobbi, was the most disturbing. It occurred when the police picked up Rafaele Sollecito for questioning, three days after Kercher's body was discovered. Police located Sollecito at a cafe. It was three in the afternoon and Sollecito was eating a pizza. But Sollecito wasn't alone. Amanda Knox was also sharing the pizza. This so-called "meeting" helped convince Giobbi the couple had acted together in the murder."


Another article in the same vein:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20002467-504083.html
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Mon 27 Dec, 2010 10:12 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
That's because you are an evil scumbag who likes to persecute innocent people.


As opposed to you, who advocates murdering innocent Italians as a form of retaliatory justice?

Cycloptichorn
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 27 Dec, 2010 10:19 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Oralloy wrote:
That's because you are an evil scumbag who likes to persecute innocent people.


As opposed to you, who advocates murdering innocent Italians as a form of retaliatory justice?

Cycloptichorn


Innocent Italians.....

The ones who are silent regarding Italy's atrocity are in no way innocent. Neither are the ones who actively support Italy's atrocity.

I'd hardly call it murder.


EDIT: And note that I took down my sig line after that Italian magazine released their article. I may eventually restore it if it seems like Italians continue to support their country's atrocity, but for now it is down.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 27 Dec, 2010 10:56 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Oralloy wrote:
That's because you are an evil scumbag who likes to persecute innocent people.


As opposed to you, who advocates murdering innocent Italians as a form of retaliatory justice?

Cycloptichorn


Out of curiosity what would your solution be if you could decide America's policy toward a country that was intentionally putting innocent people in prison?

Surely you wouldn't just do nothing? What if you were the innocent person that they had in prison??

Something does need to be done about Italy.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 27 Dec, 2010 11:18 pm
For what it's worth, today is Meredith's 25th birthday.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 29 Dec, 2010 06:52 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
EDIT: And note that I took down my sig line after that Italian magazine released their article. I may eventually restore it if it seems like Italians continue to support their country's atrocity, but for now it is down.


Got a new sig line.....
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Thu 30 Dec, 2010 05:35 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Quote:
It has also emerged that the prosecution has failed to deliver to the defence all the paperwork and documentation related to the forensic testing.

Chris Mellas, Knox's step-father who is currently in Perugia, said yesterday: "Our lawyers asked for everything, every file and record relating to the forensic testing. We were given some of the stuff, like what was on Meredith's shoes or a juice glass but not the full reports on the knife used or the bra-clasp."

Deputy prosecutor Manuela Comodi brushed off the request for all forensic documentation and added: "They have everything they need. That is enough."

LINK


Quote:
LAWYERS appealing against the murder conviction of Amanda Knox have been told they can’t use shocking new evidence.

It reveals the third person convicted of killing British student Meredith Kercher had committed six serious crimes over 33 days before the killing.

But robberies carried out by small-time drug dealer Rudy Guede were ignored by Italian authorities, raising suspicions that he was a police informer.

Even Giuliano Mignini, who prosecuted Knox, 22, and her ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 25, says Guede should have been in jail when Meredith, 21, from Coulsdon, Surrey, was killed in Perugia, Italy, in November 2007.

But he will still ask the Appeal Court to raise jail terms Knox and Sollecito received of 26 years, four months, and 25 years to life.

Chris Mellas, Knox’s step father, said Italian law regarded Guede’s crimes as “part of a separate case”. He added: “It is bizarre because it is an important aspect of the overall story.”

LINK
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Thu 30 Dec, 2010 09:40 pm
@oralloy,
Reagan had 40 to 50 thousand Nicaraguans murdered, between Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon the USA caused the deaths of 3 to 4 million SE Asians. Look to Iraq and Afghanistan, look to Iran, Angola, Bolivia, Honduras, the Philippines, Chile, ... and you think something needs to be done about Italy.

You really are a nut case, oralboy.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 31 Dec, 2010 03:36 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Reagan had 40 to 50 thousand Nicaraguans murdered, between Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon the USA caused the deaths of 3 to 4 million SE Asians. Look to Iraq and Afghanistan, look to Iran, Angola, Bolivia, Honduras, the Philippines, Chile, ... and you think something needs to be done about Italy.

You really are a nut case, oralboy.


Your lies about America are no justification for Italy intentionally putting innocent people in prison.
JTT
 
  2  
Fri 31 Dec, 2010 03:51 pm
@oralloy,
There are no lies. The numbers are public information, that come from various US government sources.

Allowed that the numbers could be off either way, but those are usually conservative.

Oh, I forgot Korea. Another 3 million there, both North and South Koreans. The USA talks a good game about saving the oppressed but they really don't give a damn how many civilians they kill as long as it doesn't get too much press.

And the US media are awfully damn good about hiding American atrocities.

oralloy
 
  -1  
Fri 31 Dec, 2010 07:26 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
There are no lies. The numbers are public information, that come from various US government sources.

Allowed that the numbers could be off either way, but those are usually conservative.

Oh, I forgot Korea. Another 3 million there, both North and South Koreans. The USA talks a good game about saving the oppressed but they really don't give a damn how many civilians they kill as long as it doesn't get too much press.

And the US media are awfully damn good about hiding American atrocities.


No, your lies are lies. And they are in no way justification for Italy intentionally putting innocent people in prison.
lmur
 
  4  
Fri 31 Dec, 2010 07:55 pm
@oralloy,
...and, as the nukes rain down on Naples, Obama reassuringly pats Amanda Knox on the hand while, somewhere in the US, oralloy whispers "Goodnight, Saigon" and reaches for the Kleenex.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Fri 31 Dec, 2010 07:56 pm
@lmur,
Ah, welcome to the thread, lmur.
 

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