Amanda Knox

@OCCOM BILL,

What, you hold the whole world's toes on fire to deal with miranda and arizona? Would that even we would.

I have no doubt at all that people are toyed with by police here in the u.s. before they get to call lawyers. Don't give me all this righteous stuff.

On the other side, I'll cheerfully agree that italian justice approaches bocci from my own pov, but I'm only a far away observer.

I just don't get the amazing arrogance here. In italy, several prosecutors have died in pursuit of justice, and others work at it.

1 Reply

@OCCOM BILL,

OCCOM BILL wrote:

As for DNA, there is a video of the buffoons handing the bra clasp back and forth when they discovered it, rather than bagging it immediately. I also doubt any forensic authority is suggesting the time on the floor would contaminate the evidence, but rather that the month long gap in the chain of custody makes it unreliable from a legal standpoint. With that big of a gap, and the mishandling there is simply no way of knowing if it's been contaminated... and the benefit of that doubt should go to the accused.

Actually, with the way the bra got dirty as it was shuffled around from place to place, I'd say there was a good chance the evidence got contaminated.

But if you think that was bad, you should see the way the keystone cops handled the luminol footprints.

It was too much work to go get a ruler that would fluoresce in the dark, so they took a picture of the glowing footprint, then turned on the lights and took a picture of the same spot with an ordinary ruler. It never occurred to them however to have the camera at the same position and angle for both shots.

Then, instead of removing the tiles so the footprints could be examined later, they scrubbed them off the floor.

The blood and DNA testing for those footprints was also comical -- makes the handling of the bra look expert by comparison.

It is understandable why the judges refused all defense requests to have the evidence tested by a reputable third party. Had anyone credible tested the evidence, the judges would then not have been able to use the bogus evidence as part of their plot to maliciously convict innocent people.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I have read that you said that some near dozens of times. Can you prove this happened?

I can prove that the fact that she made a written retraction the next day fits her story and not the cops' story.

If Amanda had actually been trying to mislead the cops, she would not have made that retraction.

If the cops had been going after the bar owner only because Amanda was misleading them, that same retraction would have given them pause.

I can also show that Amanda's story has been entirely consistent (except for the time the cops were hitting her). The cops on the other hand have yet to tell the truth even once in this case.

And it is also noteworthy that the cops have failed to produce any recording of this interview. How about some proof that Amanda actually accused the bar owner?

(I'm sure she did, due to the cops hitting her, but if we are going to use unreasonable demands for proof to blame her for having a confession beat out of her, then it seems fair to make a similar unreasonable demand for proof that she actually made that confession.)

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I just don't get the amazing arrogance here. In italy, several prosecutors have died in pursuit of justice, and others work at it.

Arrogance? Why should we not complain when a clearly innocent American is maliciously put in prison by people who clearly know that she is clearly innocent?

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@oralloy,

Could you please stop with the clearly innocent language? You are like a PR factory.

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If she were clearly innocent, she would not have been convicted.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

Could you please stop with the clearly innocent language? You are like a PR factory.

There is zero evidence against her, and much malicious conduct against her on the part of the Italian government. The fact that she is innocent is blatantly clear. It would be a travesty for me to not say so.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

If she were clearly innocent, she would not have been convicted.

Not when the judges are resolved to maliciously convict her despite her clear innocence.

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@oralloy,

"Maliciously resolved." Can't argue with that.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I've no investment in Guede, but the comment re his comment rang out as true in comparison to a lot of other stuff. I posted that as a near joke, but not entirely.

Actually, the only ones lying more than Guede are the Italian police themselves.

There is no way that Guede's story of "being invited in and merely witnessing as someone else broke in through the window and stabbed her with a knife" is compatible with his own history of breaking in through windows while carrying a large knife.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

ossobuco wrote:
I have read that you said that some near dozens of times. Can you prove this happened?

I can prove that the fact that she made a written retraction the next day fits her story and not the cops' story.

Come to think of it, we don't even have to go that far. Just the fact that she made a written retraction the very next day is enough to show that she was forced to say something she didn't mean.

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@lmur,

lmur wrote:

"Maliciously resolved." Can't argue with that.

Indeed. The way they intentionally blocked highly questionable "evidence" from even being examined by independent experts was chilling.

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Hey Bill, and other exponents of jurisprudence if you like, tell me your opinion of the procedure whereby Blackwater employees open fire on an Iraqi marketplace, in front of many witnesses, kill about seventeen innocent people, and the American judge throws out the case because the confessions were obtained in disputed circumstances.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

ossobuco wrote:
Could you please stop with the clearly innocent language? You are like a PR factory.

There is zero evidence against her, and much malicious conduct against her on the part of the Italian government. The fact that she is innocent is blatantly clear. It would be a travesty for me to not say so.

Travesty occurs with or without innocence on the part of the tried - if this is travesty. Culpability and botched justice system behavior show up on the same page. I'm not agreeing, yet anyway, that we are looking at botched justice system behavior; I'm saying one doesn't preclude the other.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

Adds, I wasn't referring to legal innocence, but to whether or not the person was in reality involved in the crime.

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@ossobuco,

Can I ask why this case is arousing so much interest and acrimonious debate?

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@McTag,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8437092.stm

Blackwater thugs not yet tried.

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@dlowan,

Well, me, I've been following italian history and culture (yes, the glorious, the good, the bad, the ugly) since at least the mid eighties. My interest in it underpins my then growing interest (not that it was ever really absent) in much more of world history, culture, and so on - and besides history, anecdotes old and new. Interest in this is a natural for me - and besides that, I like Perugia, from my too short time there.

For others, some relate to Meredith Kercher and are interested in how she was murdered, there being no denial on anyone's part that she was.
For some, it's the legal process aspects.. this being the heart of much of the heat.
For some, it's trying to work out a puzzle of many parts.
For some, it's relating to what can happen when one goes off to study far from home, on either or both sides of the issues here.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

clear innocence to you, who were not even there.

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@ossobuco,

I guess I should add that for some it is dealing with a poster saying the population of an entire country is evil. I know that oralloy took that back in time, but it did generate interest in the defense of italians as not some kind of monolithic group.

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