44
   

What is one mistake your parents made that you struggle to forgive?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 10:51 am
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:

I visited an aunt a few years ago with my husband and kids.
After hanging with my kids for a bit she beamed at me "you broke the cycle!"
And began to tell tales of us as kids that even I hadn't remembered, and how it broke her heart.
That 's very, very heartwarming to hear, Freeduck! CONGRATULATIONS!!!

She certainly made me feel like a million bucks when she said that.
I almost cried at the compliment. Similarly, another aunt told me I was a "good mother"
and it meant so much more to me than anything my mother could have said. I guess I felt like
that if they said it, it must be true.
YES. If I may, I 'll offer an experience of which this has reminded me,
of a much, much lower and lesser extent of success, but I felt good about it:
a few summers ago, I was enjoying the large pool of a summer resort in Upstate NY.
I was using a snorkle and mask for a while. Among the other users of the pool was a
boy aged about 10 years. I coud not help but notice that his father, a muscular fellow,
was seated at the edge of the pool reading and mostly quiet, but whose few expressions
toward the boy sounded intentionally oppressive and menacing.
It seemed sad & unfortunate that he had to live like that.

After a while, the boy asked to borrow my swimming equipment.
I showed him how to apply the mask to his face to avoid leakage
and discussed the equipment with him, but in a way that (in my mind)
was accepting of him as a person and NOT looking down upon him, as a "mere" child;
i.e., I endeavored to show kindness, concern and respect for him in social conversation.
(I had a hunch in the back of my mind that he did not get much respect from his father.)
Maybe about an hour later, I heard him in the distance say to his mother: "David is a NICE guy."
I felt good about that.






David
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 04:53 pm
@FreeDuck,
Quote:
She certainly made me feel like a million bucks when she said that. I almost cried at the compliment. Similarly, another aunt told me I was a "good mother" and it meant so much more to me than anything my mother could have said. I guess I felt like that if they said it, it must be true.


Sounds like it wasn't just compliments, but the indeed the truth, FreeDuck. Thank goodness for your aunts! And thank goodness they were around when you were growing up! Smile
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 06:30 pm
@msolga,
Good aunts rule!!!!!!
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 08:51 pm
@dlowan,
Yes indeed!
0 Replies
 
mushypancakes
 
  5  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 12:32 pm

What a great thread and brings back memories of long past threads here. Makes me feel a lot better too, somehow.

I feel like a lot of the burden of struggling to forgive my parents, mostly my Mum, is gone. I carried it around for a long time though. Specifically to do with my mom's drinking and all that went with that. The sense of abandonment after my dad died, and feeling very resentful for how my mom handled that situation. By partying, numbing, sending me out to different homes, and most painful of all for me was the sense that I was expected to be the grown up who took care of my seriously injured brother and also taking care of mom, and if I could take care of myself, well that was a bonus but it felt like she didn't really care about that. I also resented that my brother had a closer relationship in those years with home care workers than his own mom.

I've come to not feel so much pain about that anymore, and at the same time have a lot more compassion for my mom and why it is that she did the things she did.

I'd have to say though the hardest thing for me has been the denial on her part.
To this day, she has never admitted she has had a problem with alcohol. Or gambling. Or admit to any of the things that in her mind, do not cast her in a loving and motherly light.

It's hard to forgive that, I think because, it feels a lot like her denying my existence and my real life. And that has been the struggle all along; to feel like I mattered to her even a bit. As my own person in my own right, instead of as something to help her, a tool.

And I haven't yet forgiven her for having a redneck take my dog out in the bush and shooting him in the head. Without my knowing, after having sent me away.

Even understanding some of the thought process and emotional motives of what she did and what she does, and even knowing the good side of her and that she does have some love for me - in many small ways she was a good mother, a loving and forgiving person. Even so, I have struggled not to resent that quality of hers that has allowed her to do some truly horrible things because she can compartamentalize things so they are never ever her fault nor responsibility.

That doesn't mean I'm still angry at her. Not so much, mostly not, and I'm really grateful she is alive. I have always and always will love her and so long as she isn't doing damage to me, there is a place there for her with boundaries.

hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 12:53 pm
@mushypancakes,
Quote:
I'd have to say though the hardest thing for me has been the denial on her part.
To this day, she has never admitted she has had a problem with alcohol. Or gambling. Or admit to any of the things that in her mind, do not cast her in a loving and motherly light.

It's hard to forgive that, I think because, it feels a lot like her denying my existence and my real life. And that has been the struggle all along; to feel like I mattered to her even a bit. As my own person in my own right, instead of as something to help her, a tool.


it was never about you, it was about her, her inability to fully face herself. But you know what...we all have failings, and most of us fail ourselves at least from time to time. It is called being human.
mushypancakes
 
  6  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 01:12 pm
@hawkeye10,
Oh, I recognize that.

And everyone is entitled to make mistakes. Really, my post sounds more angry than I actually am.

However, just because I can recognize that and don't hold those things against her now - now I deal with now, and we both make mistakes - doesn't mean I will ever believe or feel that just because you are human, you get a free pass from taking responsibility.

I forgive. But I don't believe in the concept that forgiveness washes away accountability from anyone.

hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 01:36 pm
@mushypancakes,
Quote:
I forgive. But I don't believe in the concept that forgiveness washes away accountability from anyone


By definition forgiving demands that a wrong was done, never is there a diminishing of accountability, a statement that what was done does not matter.

edit: this is not a criticism of you, it is pointing out that what you think of as a problem is not a problem. This is not in your way.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 01:42 pm
TESTING

"have a nice day"

Shall this post be voted down presumably only because Hawkeye was the one to say it??? What does this grade school behaviour say about a2k...I would like to think that we are better than this.

Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 01:43 pm
what was this thread about again?
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 01:47 pm
@Rockhead,
Pardoning mistakes?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 02:40 pm
@mushypancakes,
mushypancakes wrote:


Quote:
What a great thread and brings back memories of long past threads here.
Makes me feel a lot better too, somehow.

Wow, MP.
U said a lot of very interesting and important things in your post.
I 'd like to address some of them, if I may.

Quote:

I feel like a lot of the burden of struggling to forgive my parents,
mostly my Mum, is gone. I carried it around for a long time though.
Specifically to do with my mom's drinking and all that went with that.
The sense of abandonment after my dad died, and feeling very resentful
for how my mom handled that situation. By partying, numbing,
sending me out to different homes, and most painful of all for me
was the sense that I was expected to be the grown up who took care
of my seriously injured brother and also taking care of mom, and if I
could take care of myself, well that was a bonus but it felt like
she didn't really care about that.
How old were u then, MP ?
May I ask: what was your sense of yourself: did u feel like an adult ?

The reason that I inquire is that I remember, in my childhood,
in the privacy of my own mind: I considered myself to be an adult,
regardless of the views of others. Did u feel it differently ?



Quote:
I also resented that my brother had a closer relationship in those years
with home care workers than his own mom.

Have u discussed that with your brother ?

Quote:
I've come to not feel so much pain about that anymore, and at the same time
have a lot more compassion for my mom and why it is that she did the things she did.
"Time heals all wounds" if thay are clean.


Quote:
I'd have to say though the hardest thing for me has been the denial on her part.

Sometimes, people don 't see things the same way as one another.


Quote:
To this day, she has never admitted she has had a problem with alcohol.
Or gambling. Or admit to any of the things that in her mind,
do not cast her in a loving and motherly light.

It's hard to forgive that, I think because, it feels a lot like her
denying my existence and my real life. And that has been the
struggle all along; to feel like I mattered to her even a bit.

Have u discussed this with your mother ?
Perhaps it 'd be wise to do it, while she is still available to u for discussion.
If u were on your deathbed and your mother entered the room
what woud u say ?

Quote:

And I haven't yet forgiven her for having a redneck take my dog out
in the bush and shooting him in the head. Without my knowing,
after having sent me away.
That is egregious, in the extreme.
That 'd make my mind run in terms of vengeance.
Are there animal cruelty laws in that jurisdiction?
Call the police on her, at least to shake her up.

To a limited extent, something like that happened in my experience:
a former girlfriend, nicknamed Dee, had a small dog. She told me
that she took him to the dogpound to be killed, for her convenience.
I thought that it was immoral that she shoud not be punished for this killing,
so I employed sharp words of denunciation and condemnation against her. It worked.
She felt emotional pain and complained to one of our friends about it.
Ergo, to a limited and mild extent: I avenged the canine victim.
Justice was served.







Quote:

Even understanding some of the thought process and emotional motives of what she did and what she does, and even knowing the good side of her and that she does have some love for me - in many small ways she was a good mother, a loving and forgiving person. Even so, I have struggled not to resent that quality of hers that has allowed her to do some truly horrible things because she can compartamentalize things so they are never ever her fault nor responsibility.

That doesn't mean I'm still angry at her. Not so much, mostly not,
and I'm really grateful she is alive. I have always and always will love her
and so long as she isn't doing damage to me, there is a place there for her with boundaries.

I respectfully suggest that u end the struggle, because u r not the offender,
therefore u do not deserve to be punished.
In my opinion: u shoud decide between either justly punishing her,
or
FORGIVING her (meaning that u will no longer hold it against her
and in your heart and mind: u absolve her of all guilt, regardless of whether she deserves it),
but don 't beat yourself up because of another person 's mistakes.





David
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 03:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Shall this post be voted down presumably only because Hawkeye was the one to say it???


No, I voted it down for being annoying. Get over yourself, people vote you down because you troll.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 03:09 pm
@mushypancakes,
A lot of meat on this post-bone...I'll come back after i digest it
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 04:02 pm
@mushypancakes,
Hi, Mushy.

It's odd, I've long sympathized with your posts before, but in a general empathy sort of way. The thing about the guy and your dog pierced my heart.

I had a friend when we were all around twenty whose mother died, and fairly quickly, of stomach cancer. I had never heard her speak ill of her mother, I know she loved her, as complex as 'love' can be. Anyway, my friend kept on going and one day she came home from school to find that her father had put the dog down. I'm not sure she ever got over that, but haven't talked to her in a long time.

Even I, not all that close a friend, loved that dog. I remember visiting at their house and us girls sitting in the living room and talking about the dog, who started to hide from all the attention (interesting in itself, in retrospect). Anyway, my friend's pain stands out in memory. Like her heart being torn out.
0 Replies
 
BorisKitten
 
  3  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 04:09 pm
@mushypancakes,
Quote:
I'd have to say though the hardest thing for me has been the denial on her part.

Thanks, MP, for bringing this up: Denial from parents.

My mother always blamed ME when my father raped me, beat me, told me I was worthless, etc (he was a violent alcoholic). Somehow she thought, 40+ years ago and still today, that some huge flaw in MY character caused my father's behavior. Note: His beatings began when I was a babe in arms, fresh from the hospital.

I was lucky in that a therapist I had in my 20's told me my mother would never, ever change her position, so it was time to stop trying to convince her that my recovered memories were real. That was very useful advice.

I had 4 siblings, all older, 3 of whom are dead, one vanished these past 15 years. My father is long dead. Of the seven of us, only my mother and me still have any contact, and frankly we get along quite well. I can even say I love her and have forgiven her for her failures as a mother.

It took me 10 long, difficult, and expensive years of weekly therapy to recover my lost memories of childhood and to learn to care about and get along with my mother.

I believe it is very difficult to forgive someone who refuses to admit any wrong was ever done. I had ample corroboration from my 4 siblings, but they kept dying and forgetting their recovered memories at critical moments.

I think Forgiveness is entirely meaningless in cases of child abuse (for the child/adult who was abused). It has no use at all to me.

What really matters is learning to live a happy, fulfilled life oneself, regardless of the past.

Thanks, MP, for opening the door for me to say this.
BorisKitten
 
  3  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 04:18 pm
@BorisKitten,
I've only seen one post on this thread regarding repressed/suppressed memories of abusive childhoods.

I just have to bring it up. When I was in my early 30's, after over 10 years of therapy, my own therapist told me I had "made up" my recovered memories of child abuse (despite my siblings' testimony).

(Note: I'm 48 now, well over it, thank you.)

Talk about re-abuse! Given that my own mother had often used the same words ("making it up") in her own denials, hearing this from a therapist was very, shall we say, disturbing.

This therapist actually seemed to believe that because the False Memory Movement was gathering steam, all of his own clients' memories were false.

What a concept, eh?

I've actually read a response to Elizabeth Loftus (name correct?) from her own daughter, who was abused in childhood. The daughter apologized for all the damage her mother had done to others, because the daughter accused her mother/father of abusing her (daughter) as a child. According to daughter, the entire False Memory Movement was generated by her own, single accusation.

I wonder if this stuff is still floating around on the Internet, as it was when I researched it some 15 years ago.

Frankly, I don't really care. I don't like to talk or think about it.

I've made peace with my mother, and I consider myself a happy, well-adjusted person. That's all that really matters to me.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 04:20 pm
It's 1945 and my father (aged 21) works for Brown & Root Houston Texas, my mom (aged 22) is a very young housewife. Over dinner my father announces to my mom "I signed a contract today committing us to 10 years working/living in Saudi Arabia."
It's 2004 and my father wakes one sunday morning in the house they have lived in for 35 years, decides to sell their home and move into a retirement apartment. He calls a realtor and that afternoon has the house sold. He then announces to my mother "I sold our house today and we are moving into a retirement apartment."
The years between 1945 and today have been no different as to how he has regarded his wife or children. Everyone in his life has been superfulous to his desires.
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 04:26 pm
@dyslexia,
You know, Dys, I've really been hoping you'd provide a few more details about your own experience on this thread.

I like you; always have. Maybe I think we're kind of alike.

Thank you for sharing. It sounds to me like your childhood, with a father like this, must have been, er, very unpleasant.

Oh, and Dlowan's (right?) question about whether we'd rather have been removed from our childhood homes: My answer is YES YES YES!

I begged to be taken away, and was never heard (this was the 1960's, when things were Different).
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 04:36 pm
@BorisKitten,
Lady Diane just reminded me of when she first met my father, she asked him about photos of us (me) living in the middle-east and our travels, he replied that he had destroyed all such photos because they took up too much space and he only kept photos of important people such as his friends from work. He then showed her a photo-album but he didn't know the names of anyone in it. Lady Diane was stunned (ask her about photos of her kids).
 

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