28
   

Barney Frank, could e be right?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 11:56 am
@rabel22,
rabel22 wrote:

Franks was right to shoot this woman down. She wasent interested in reasoned debate and
her sign and question were insulting.

There is nothing rong with insulting Obama and his plans.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 11:56 am
@OmSigDAVID,
rong is spelled wrong (however I know you like to spell phonetically it still is not correct). Just figured I'd point out you are far from making errors.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 11:58 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

For eight years the Republicans had dissenters hustled away
or cordoned off so they could not be seen, let alone heard.
No Republican I can recall spoke out against the practice.
Now, a little incident like this raises their ire. Hmmm.

For all political parties:
it depends on the circumstances.

Sometimes its right to cordon off; not always.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:00 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

rong is spelled wrong
(however I know you like to spell phonetically it still is not correct).
Just figured I'd point out you are far from making errors.
I said it was rong.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:04 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Sometimes its right to cordon off; not always.


Give me an example of when you think it would be right to cordon off dissenters.
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:12 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

For eight years the Republicans had dissenters hustled away
or cordoned off so they could not be seen, let alone heard.
No Republican I can recall spoke out against the practice.
Now, a little incident like this raises their ire. Hmmm.

For all political parties:
it depends on the circumstances.

Sometimes its right to cordon off; not always.


Yeah. When they're Democrats, cordon them off. But insist that all Republicans get heard, no matter how assinine or stupid they may be.
rabel22
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:13 pm
@FreeDuck,
If their democrats trying to make a rational point.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:15 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:
Quote:
Odd, but that is how word self-corrected what I wrote - I will admit I am not an expert in grammar or spelling for that matter. As I typed it first in word (as I am a horrible speller and even worse for making typos) - word self-corrected this and I simply copy and pasted it.

Many people (politically correct ones) intentionally make this mistake.
I fight against being politically correct,
preferring mathematical correctness (no additional mystery selves)
and historical correctness.







Linkat wrote:
Quote:
I assume you have never made a simple mistake by pointing out one possible error?

I have made too many mistakes.

I get the impression that u r a gentle soul.
A lot of those who post in debate of political filosofy
choose to act ruff n tuff; I 've become accustomed to posting accordingly.
I hope that I did not ruffle u. Please don t take it seriously nor personally.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:24 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
Quote:
For eight years the Republicans had dissenters hustled away
or cordoned off so they could not be seen, let alone heard.
No Republican I can recall spoke out against the practice.
Now, a little incident like this raises their ire. Hmmm.



OmSigDAVID wrote:
Quote:
For all political parties:
it depends on the circumstances.
Sometimes its right to cordon off; not always.



edgarblythe wrote:
Quote:
Yeah. When they're Democrats, cordon them off.
But insist that all Republicans get heard,
no matter how assinine or stupid they may be.

I hadn' t thawt of it that way b4,
but u make a good case, Ed. U r an admirable logician.
Let there be credit where its due.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:30 pm
@FreeDuck,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Sometimes its right to cordon off; not always.



FreeDuck wrote:
Quote:
Give me an example of when you think it would be right to cordon off dissenters.

During times of private meetings.
During dinner times; he shoud be able to eat in peace.

Dissenters shoud not be allowed to enter upon private land
without the owner 's permission. Those r a few examples.





David
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:35 pm
Brandon, I don't think you can count comparing Obama to Hitler as "reasoned argument" from the wacko right.
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:37 pm
@MontereyJack,
apparently far too many on the right do consider comparing Obama to Hitler as "reasoned argument."
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:46 pm
@FreeDuck,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

The Jew in question
did not take much cognizance of that.
We did not go thru those exertions in order to reduce
and confine our own freedom of speech.




FreeDuck wrote:
Quote:
Did he not say "it's a testament to the 1st amendment
that you are able to come here and assert such nonsense"
or something of that nature?
He did not not; it was Barney Frank who said that.





FreeDuck wrote:
Quote:
He showed ample respect for her right to spew hateful nonsense.
That doesn't mean he has to engage it or give it the credibility of an actual argument.

He was shouting loudly and repeatedly,
implying that prior restraint shoud have been applied
to her and to her sign. He was near hysterical,
implying that her freedom of speech was revoked or suspended because he is a Jew.
I think that 's arrogant.



David wrote:
Quote:

Our freedom of speech is not curtailed upon the basis
of whether there r Jews around in the area who hear what is being said or see anti-left posters.


FreeDuck wrote:
Quote:
Quite obviously she was allowed to speak.
Her question received the answer it deserved.

Her rights to express her opinions have been challenged.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:54 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I don't take it personally - I grew up with 3 brothers I am used to abuse.

It is just a little bit pick picky don't ya think - to point out little errors. Wonder why word changes that to themselves.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 01:00 pm
@dyslexia,
I don't think that president Obama is at all like Hitler. However, the evident conviction of him, his supporters and the Democrat leaders in the Congress that they alone know what is really good for us, and the assertions of many of them that they will go ahead regardless of the expressed opposition, is certainly reminiscent of an authoritarian frame of mind. I believe many people have come to the same conclusion.

What exacerbates this is the equally evident combination of ineptitude and deception in their public statements on these issues, particularly health care. We hear the constant repitition that the government will (1) reap huge savings in MEDICARE to pay for new entitlements, but (2) will not arbitrarily reduce payments for services under it. Then there are the constant assurances that the program enacted will be deficit neutral - while the CBO outlines the huge projected deficits associated with the draft legislation. There are, of course the bland assertions that no one who likes his/her current health care provider or policy will be deprived of it or made to change - all while provisions are drafted to levy added taxes on such policies or stipulate what they will cover. All of this involved self-inflicted wounds on the part of the Democrat cognoscenti. They have created this circus all by themselves and now they indignantly criticize the public for its loss of confidence in them.
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 01:06 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
Quote:
Did he not say "it's a testament to the 1st amendment
that you are able to come here and assert such nonsense"
or something of that nature?
He did not not; it was Barney Frank who said that.

Barney Frank would be the "he" in question.

Quote:

He was shouting loudly and repeatedly,
implying that prior restraint shoud have been applied
to her and to her sign. He was near hysterical,
implying that her freedom of speech was revoked or suspended because he is a Jew.
I think that 's arrogant.

What video were you watching?


Quote:
FreeDuck wrote:
Quote:
Quite obviously she was allowed to speak.
Her question received the answer it deserved.

Her rights to express her opinions have been challenged.
How so?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 01:11 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
We hear the constant repitition that the government will (1) reap huge savings in MEDICARE to pay for new entitlements, but (2) will not arbitrarily reduce payments for services under it.


Who is 'constantly repeating' this? The Dems' plans call for paying for the Public option and other reforms mostly through new taxes on the Rich and corporations which don't offer health care plans. Who is making this argument, that you are saying is one of the prime arguments?

Of course, I realize that this is an attempt to get you to provide evidence for your assertions, and therefore useless, but form demands that I try.

Cycloptichorn
CoastalRat
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 01:16 pm
@dyslexia,
Quote:
apparently far too many on the right do consider comparing Obama to Hitler as "reasoned argument."


Probably about the same number of dems who constantly compared Bush to Hitler. But of course back then it was a-ok, right y'all?

It is stupid regardless of who is doing the comparing, but they have every right to do so if they want. But of course, that is just one clown's opinion.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 01:18 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
We hear the constant repitition that the government will (1) reap huge savings in MEDICARE to pay for new entitlements, but (2) will not arbitrarily reduce payments for services under it.


Who is 'constantly repeating' this? The Dems' plans call for paying for the Public option and other reforms mostly through new taxes on the Rich and corporations which don't offer health care plans. Who is making this argument, that you are saying is one of the prime arguments?

Of course, I realize that this is an attempt to get you to provide evidence for your assertions, and therefore useless, but form demands that I try.

Cycloptichorn


President Obama has repeated this mantra about savings in Medicare on numerous occasions in public speeches and utterances - - and I think you know that to be true. I have heard it repeatedly and feel no obligation to provide citations for you. With respect to your other allegations about the "dems plans" -- they don't add up to "paying for" the entitlements they propose.

In any event, the Administration has already lost the confidence of the public on this issue. All they're trying to do now is limit their political losses.
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 01:24 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

I don't think that president Obama is at all like Hitler. However, the evident conviction of him, his supporters and the Democrat leaders in the Congress that they alone know what is really good for us, and the assertions of many of them that they will go ahead regardless of the expressed opposition, is certainly reminiscent of an authoritarian frame of mind. I believe many people have come to the same conclusion.

On the contrary, I think they are almost entirely ceding control of the debate to the minority. The fact is that the majority of Americans want health care reform and that includes a public option. That's the platform Obama and the majority Democrats ran on and we just had an election. If the tables were turned, you can be sure that the other party would do what you claim the Democrats are doing -- shove it down our throats without bothering with any nonsensical attempts at bipartisanship. I'm sure you were watching just as closely over the last 8 years when we spent months arguing over whether the Republicans should use "the nuclear option" to get around "obstructionist" Democrats. The fact is that, as of now, all of this is still up for debate in the House and the Senate with both parties involved. Republicans have already been involved in the draft legislation proposed -- even authoring some of the provisions that have been so decried by their own party supporters.

There are legitimate debates about how to go about enacting health care reform. The devil is certainly in the details and we should absolutely argue over those details. But surely you can see that drawing parallels with the Nazis over proposed legislation (which I'm sure no-one has actually read) is not a form of debate in any sense. The more this kind of thing sucks air time away from conservatives who have legitimate questions the more Republicans look like they just support the status quo. The status quo is obviously not satisfactory to a majority of Americans.
0 Replies
 
 

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