Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 09:55 am
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_07/019306.php

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/birthers.png

Quote:
ONE OF THESE THINGS IS NOT LIKE THE OTHER.... A new Research 2000 poll conducted for Daily Kos asked respondents a rather straightforward question: "Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?" Since the president was born in the U.S., ideally, the results would be around 100%.
birthers.png

They weren't. There was, not surprisingly, a significant partisan gap. Only 4% of Democrats are confused about the president's place of birth. The number is slightly higher among independents, 8% of whom got it wrong. Among Republicans, though, 28% -- more than one in four -- believe President Obama was not born in the United States.

For a crazy, demonstrably false, racist idea, these are discouraging numbers.

But I was especially surprised by the regional breakdowns. In the Northeast, West, and Midwest, the overwhelming majorities realize the president is a native-born American. But notice the South -- only 47% got it right and 30% are unsure.

Outside the South, this madness is gaining very little traction, and remains a fringe conspiracy theory. Within the South, it's practically mainstream.


It is my contention that saying 'Obama wasn't born in America' is slang for 'he's a nigger.' It's a code word for things which are unacceptable to say. And it's highly embarrassing for us as a nation, that such a large part of our population is buying into this idiocy.

No surprise that this attitude is most prevalent in the area of America which historically had the worst problems with racism; and it's equally unsurprising that the South continues to wane as a political force in American politics, given their failure to adjust to the changing face of our country.

Cycloptichorn
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Type: Discussion • Score: 31 • Views: 15,699 • Replies: 252

 
Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 10:18 am
I do not understand the quantum leap in logic, I believe, from not being born in the country to that question acting like a code word for a racial epithet?

The belief that the President may not have been born in the U.S. would more likely, I believe, reflect a belief that there are those in the Democratic party that would be willing to effect such a ruse, since those who have effected his candidacy would likely know the truth. It is more of an indictment against the Democratic Party, I believe, since it shows that there is a percentage of Americans that mistrust the Party to the point of believing some people in the Party would be party to such machinations.

Bringing in racial attitudes is a red-herring, in my opinion, since the President is not, in the minds of his detractors, some Svengali that can do such falsities by himself. His mentors in the Democratic Party that effected his candidacy are not Black, but White.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 10:23 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

I do not understand the quantum leap in logic, I believe, from not being born in the country to that question acting like a code word for a racial epithet?

The belief that the President may not have been born in the U.S. would more likely, I believe, reflect a belief that there are those in the Democratic party that would be willing to effect such a ruse, since those who have effected his candidacy would likely know the truth. It is more of an indictment against the Democratic Party, I believe, since it shows that there is a percentage of Americans that mistrust the Party to the point of believing some people in the Party would be party to such machinations.

Bringing in racial attitudes is a red-herring, in my opinion, since the President is not, in the minds of his detractors, some Svengali that can do such falsities by himself. His mentors in the Democratic Party that effected his candidacy are not Black, but White.


I do not believe your thesis adequately explains the situation, not in the slightest.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 12:02 pm
Wondering why he does not have a birth certificate is the same as calling him a nigger?

That is quite a leap.

I suppose wondering why Tiger is so good at golf is the same as calling him a nigger too? Admiring LeBron James basketball skills, is that just like calling him a nigger? Does rolling ones window up when driving through slums the same as yelling nigger from the car window?

Is there any possible way that a white person can relate to a black person that is NOT racist? Any way at all or will it just always be that all white people are racist and therefore any thing they do with/for/near/around black people will be racist?

That's ******* insane. Even for a left coast liberal like you.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 12:18 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Wondering why he does not have a birth certificate is the same as calling him a nigger?

That is quite a leap.


Not really. Republicans are big on 'code words,' getting messages across to other Republicans or Whites without sounding hateful or racist. It's hardly the first time that this has come up.

Quote:
I suppose wondering why Tiger is so good at golf is the same as calling him a nigger too? Admiring LeBron James basketball skills, is that just like calling him a nigger? Does rolling ones window up when driving through slums the same as yelling nigger from the car window?


No, those aren't the same things; good thing I didn't write that.

Quote:
Is there any possible way that a white person can relate to a black person that is NOT racist? Any way at all or will it just always be that all white people are racist and therefore any thing they do with/for/near/around black people will be racist?

That's ******* insane. Even for a left coast liberal like you.


I agree, your Straw Man is insane. Once again - good thing I didn't write anything like that at all.

I stand by my original proposition, that folks who can't stand the idea of a black president with a Muslim name are displaying this by attacking the authenticity of his birth. And it is mostly localized in the South, an area known for racist attitudes.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 12:20 pm
@Foofie,
Now I know so call birthers can not understand simple logic but what the hell any child born of an Americana mother could be brought into the US and have citizenship without any great problem.

This would generate all kind of records and would not normally be something anyone would need to hide in any way or in any manner.

Now only if his mother and family had a large crystal ball and could guess that this baby would someday wish to run for president would this foreign birth need to be hidden.

This whole subject is beyond being silly.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 12:22 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
This whole subject is beyond being silly.


True, it is.

But by continuing to talk about it, you give it legs and keep it alive.
If you ignore it, it will go away.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 12:23 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
This whole subject is beyond being silly.


True, it is.

But by continuing to talk about it, you give it legs and keep it alive.
If you ignore it, it will go away.


No, I don't think it will. Nope. I think ignoring this is the exact wrong thing to do. Instead, we should loudly confront these quasi-racist attitudes and statements and denounce them.

Ignoring racism doesn't make it go away.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:22 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Wondering why he does not have a birth certificate is the same as calling him a nigger?

Pretty much, yeah. Because he does have a birth certificate. Furthermore, he was certified as meeting the eligibility requirements for being President.

Finally, he is the President.

Try this little mantra:

Only natural born citizens can be President.
Barack Obama is the President.
Therefore, Barack Obama is a natural born citizen.



The "controversy" is just a screen for people who don't like having a black man as president. It's a way of saying, "he ain't my President!"
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:32 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:

But by continuing to talk about it, you give it legs and keep it alive.
If you ignore it, it will go away.


Why would we want it to go away?

Such a clear and prominent example of wacko extremist conservatives and Republican politicians who are unwilling to cross them.

I want this story to stay around for a while.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:36 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
Wondering why he does not have a birth certificate is the same as calling him a nigger?

That is quite a leap.


I think wondering why he does not have a birth certificate is the big leap.

The state of HI has confirmed his birth and issued what is recognized by government as a valid birth certificate. It is the same document anyone would get if they requested a copy of their birth certificate. Either these people are incredibly stupid or using the 'lack of a birth certificate' to hide some other agenda.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:37 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Wondering why he does not have a birth certificate is the same as calling him a nigger?

Pretty much, yeah. Because he does have a birth certificate. Furthermore, he was certified as meeting the eligibility requirements for being President.

Finally, he is the President.

Try this little mantra:

Only natural born citizens can be President.
Barack Obama is the President.
Therefore, Barack Obama is a natural born citizen.



The "controversy" is just a screen for people who don't like having a black man as president. It's a way of saying, "he ain't my President!"


Publishing his birth certificate would be a wise move to just put an end to this, wouldn't you think? I have one, you have one, Obama has one.

Your mantra is silly. Calling this a racist thing just makes you look like an idiot, from my perspective anyways. But, most of the stuff you and Cyc post usually ends with that result anyways so this is nothing new.

Personally, I am not one that doubts he is a citizen proper but this will haunt him through his entire presidency unless his actual birth certificate is published or at least seen by enough people in an authoritative position to show otherwise.
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:41 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:


Publishing his birth certificate would be a wise move to just put an end to this, wouldn't you think? I have one, you have one, Obama has one.


Obama did publish a copy of his birth certificate. Where the hell were you during the election, McG?

And it didn't put an end to this. Why not? Because the complaints are not really about his birth certificate at all. That's just a proxy for saying, 'he's not American. He's not like us. He's Black, he's Muslim.' And the belief that these things are true is primarily concentrated in the deep South, a historically racist area of America.

There is a group who will be haunted by this, but it is not Obama or the Dems, I assure you. I personally would not be happy to have large segments of my political party showing racist behavior such as this.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:44 pm
@McGentrix,
Are you blind? The birth certificate image had been posted on the internet!
Green Witch
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:48 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
It is my contention that saying 'Obama wasn't born in America' is slang for 'he's a nigger.'


I think it's slang for he's an intellectual liberal Democrat. I'm not saying all is rosy in race land, but these same people never started a campaign against conservative blacks like Condaleeza Rice.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:50 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
saying 'Obama wasn't born in America' is slang for 'he's a nigger.' It's a code word for things which are unacceptable to say. And it's highly embarrassing for us as a nation, that such a large part of our population is buying into this idiocy.


It is very unfortunate for you as a nation. I wonder how many Americans realise the damage that people like these "birthers", shock jocks like Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, creationists, etc, do to your standing and reputation in the world. It's got so bad that nowadays many people hear of these things and just shrug and say "Oh, well, that's Americans for you" If Obama gets whacked like JFK and/or Palin gets elected in 2012, a lot of people will just write you off and start planning workarounds.
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:51 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Are you blind? The birth certificate image had been posted on the internet!


Blind? No. They published a certificate of live birth.

http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg

Again, let me reiterate that I don not doubt Obama's authenticity as an American citizen born on American soil. I am arguing that believing otherwise does not constitute racism.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:52 pm
@contrex,
Right, because other nations don't have their problems...
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:53 pm
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:

Quote:
It is my contention that saying 'Obama wasn't born in America' is slang for 'he's a nigger.'


I think it's slang for he's an intellectual liberal Democrat. I'm not saying all is rosy in race land, but these same people never started a campaign against conservative blacks like Condaleeza Rice.


far more likely.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 01:53 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:

Publishing his birth certificate would be a wise move to just put an end to this, wouldn't you think? I have one, you have one, Obama has one.


Google Obama birth certificate

Surprisingly, his looks a lot like the one my wife used 4 years ago to get her passport.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
This includes pictures of the certificate from several angles and all the necessary signatures and seals to show it is valid.
0 Replies
 
 

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