OUR COUNTDOWN TO FASCIST MEDICINE

With national health care everyone can then have the pleasure of the indignity of waiting endless hours to see a doctor, or doctor's assistant, just like the poor or elderly today (in a hospital emergency room). It will be another "spreading the wealth around gambit," only this time it will be indignity, not wealth.

So H2O man - are you against a nationalized health care plan in general - or just against Obama's specifically?

Both are evil and I'm against both.

H2O MAN wrote:

Both are evil and I'm against both.

Well, only a few should be able to get health care: money rules the world and nothing else.

Some interesting facts that may help to answer some of Sowell's questions:
Health Insurance Costs:

The 'facts' you quoted are the talking points the Administration is using to force nationalized healthcare on the American people.

Certainly these are one side of the debate.

For those of us old enough to remember what healthcare was like before government got involved, and who now believe that government is a large part of reasons that we have the problems we have, many of us are not convinced that government is the right entity to take on the remainder of the healthcare system.

Look again at Dr. Sowell's observations. Your posted synopsis of 'the problem' does not address them.

A bigger question is whether medical care will be better or worse after the government takes it over. There are many available facts relevant to those crucial questions but remarkably little interest in those facts.

There are facts about the massive government-run medical programs already in existence in the United States " Medicare, Medicaid and veterans' hospitals " as well as government-run medical systems in other countries

* Although nearly 46 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.3
* Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.4

As for those uninsured Americans we keep hearing about, there is remarkably little interest in why they don't have insurance. It cannot be poverty, for the poor can automatically get Medicaid.

* According to the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust, premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance in the United States have been rising four times faster on average than workers’ earnings since 1999.2
* The average employee contribution to company-provided health insurance has increased more than 120 percent since 2000. Average out-of-pocket costs for deductibles, co-payments for medications, and co-insurance for physician and hospital visits rose 115 percent during the same period.6

Medicaid Health Insurance For Infants and Children (Effective 04/2008)
Covers children under age 19

*Monthly Income Limit -Under age 1 through age 5
Family size/ monthly income


1 - $1,634


2- $2200


3 - $2767


4 - $3334



Monthly Income Limit - Age 6 through age 18

Family members/monthly income
1 -$817


2-$1,100


3-$1,384


4-$1,667

*Represents highest income allowed
That's for the children to be covered by Medicaid

These are the monthly income guidlines for family coverage (including an adult family member)
Family size/monthly income limit

1-$362


2-$472


3-$544


4-$594

And as for systems that work for much smaller countries working effectively here, how many think that a government system that works for Muleshoe, TX, population about 4000 or so, would work for New York City?

You seem to have the arrogant attitude that people who are UNWILLING to help themselves are entitled to the fruits of your labor and mine.

Those who are UNWILLING to provide for themselves and those people who are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are not entitled to taxpayer services in my opinion.

So far, all you have done is complain about a small percentage of people in this country, many of whom have the means to provide for themselves, yet elected not to do so.

I understand you are a teacher? So I suspect any student unwilling to do their homework or unwilling to take your test will get a passing grade.

The problem is with the parents.

Attitudes like yours make it easy for the lazy to remain lazy.

As a parent you should do whatever it takes to care for your children.

No more excuses about about the "children" or the system.

There is an old saying.

Instead of giving the hungry fish, teach them how to fish

Instead of giving the hungry fish, teach them how to fish.

A child isn't covered by health insurance due to the ineptness of his or her parent. How will you teach that parent or child a lesson?

umm, Foxy?

I gotta call bullshit again...

"But those who went without any medical care at all did so mostly out of choice, just as they do now. "

This is elitist arrogance.

absolute crap...

(you got a thing about choices, huh...?)

When I was a kid, $5 was not an insignificant amount of money. That's what a doctor's visit cost though because insurance didn't cover a routine doctor's visit. People were expected to pay that out of pocket. They were also expected to pay the first couple of hundred dollars or so of a hospital stay or the first ten dollars or so of an emergency room visit out of pocket even when they had insurance.

They were also expected to pay the first couple of hundred dollars

It turns out that 253.4 million Americans -- or a whopping 83% of the country -- have health insurance, whether it's through private insurers, employer-based coverage, a government program or Medicaid/Medicare. The majority, 202 million of the 253.4 million, pay for private insurance.

And as a number of clever skeptics have recently pointed out, breaking down the 45 million number reveals that far fewer folks are actually uninsured. Nearly 10 million of those 45 million aren't even American citizens, and nearly 17 million of them can easily afford insurance, but choose not to get it (these folks will be taxed under Obamacare for opting out.) When the numbers are crunched, it turns out that only 11 million legal American citizens who would like health insurance don't have it, and even that figure is likely high. If we take it at 11 million, that's less than 4% of the country.

Now, it's important that we get health care to those 4%, of course. But is it really necessary to rip apart the health care system we currently have to do it? Yes, we all want better coverage that's more affordable and easier to navigate. Obamacare doesn't solve any of these. All it does is help less than 4% of the country get health insurance, while putting the rest of us through a tangled maze of bureaucracy, for worse care that costs just as much, maybe more. The long-term effects are even more frightening, but in the short term do we really want to penalize the many in favor of the (very) few?